Maria Borrel horse neglect

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;8730790]
So I get this lovely PM from this Shammy Davis who obviously doesn’t like the attention taken away from his/her persona. :lol::

[I]"Nice of you to be . . . . . . the adult in the room on the horse racing forum but your advise is BS. You haven’t posted to an actual horse racing thread or horse related thread since June 2015. It appears horse abuse brings you out from under your rock. You are in KY. You should be able to add something to the discussion but it appears you show up when everything has already turned to crap. Maybe you’d be more comfortable now expressing yourself to something on off topic. It appears Donald Trump has got your attention. You’ve been posting there since the first of the year.

If it’s got race horse and problem in its title we can always count on people like you showing up on the horse racing forum. What luck!"
[/I][/QUOTE]

So I guess I was right. Your advise was BS.

[Moderator_1]

We removed some tangents more focused on individual posters than the actual topic to get things back to the subject of the thread.

Please focus more on the main topic vs. each other going forward.
Thanks ~
Mod 1

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=JJ’sLuckyTrain;8730965]
And, someone was commenting on Mr. Borell already being out
of jail. It is SO rare for anyone to do time for animal cruelty in any state. I am surprised they held him as long as they did. Let’s hope there is more justice down the line.[/QUOTE]

Ummm… it’s called legal process. Mr Borell was jailed with a bond (which is very standard for most criminal charges). He posted bond and was released (happens all the time, all over the country for the vast majority of arrests). Homicide is normally the only type of crime with no bond. FWIW, he is still innocent… has not had a trial or plea yet.

[luvmytbs]

We’ve been trying to establish some rules regarding bonds in the state of KY which would be equal to the amount to take care of the animals for at least 30 days.

Common sense to have the accused pay for their upkeep if he/she is pleading innocent, therefore he/she should financially be able to do just that.

Common sense is a little lost around here so now others are paying for these horses’ upkeep while this whole thing is going to drag on forever.

I am glad Fox Hill Farm has retained a lawyer to help with assuring that these horses will NOT be returned to the Borell’s, which unfortunately happens all too often in these cases.

[Where_sMyWhite]

He was released on a $4,300 cash non-refundable bond. Should get some reasonable horse care for that although I don’t know KY law to know if there is a mechanism to “divert” bond monies for something like horse care (although, since BH didn’t say, maybe that is where the $ went).

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;8731344]
Common sense to have the accused pay for their upkeep if he/she is pleading innocent,[/QUOTE]

Oh, and another nit… he is innocent pre-conviction. He would plead ‘not guilty’.

FWIW, I am not in support of this person and what he’s accused of having done. But I am in support of his rights under KY and Constitutional law. If KY law is bad, then it should be addressed.

[luvmytbs]

Over and over attempts have been made to add something as simple as the below to KY legislation.

Bonding/Forfeiture Provisions

Many states have laws that authorize the court to order the person charged with cruelty or fighting to post a bond to cover the cost of caring for the seized animals while the criminal case is resolved. These laws typically allow the court to order forfeiture of the animals if the person fails to post the bond.

[luvmytbs]

@Where'sMyWhite;8731929

Oh, and another nit… he is innocent pre-conviction. He would plead ‘not guilty’.

Ha, I could tell you of a case involving another KY TB horse trainer actually pleading guilty to 16 counts because his lawyer thought no-one was going to find out.
But that’s a story from a few years ago and there’s probably a thread on here somewhere.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;8732078]
Ha, I could tell you of a case involving another KY TB horse trainer actually pleading guilty to 16 counts because his lawyer thought no-one was going to find out.
But that’s a story from a few years ago and there’s probably a thread on here somewhere.[/QUOTE]

Not sure I get the significance of this. Trainer pled guilty. He is guilty. Background checks should turn that up.

One does not have to have a trial, one can plead guilty to “negotiated” charges.

But, arrests do not equal convictions. Typically, you are arrested, arraigned, bonded out (if you can make bond) then trial or plea agreement. And the charges that may be agreed upon may not be the charges that you were arraigned for. Until you are found guilty or not guilty, you are innocent.

[TheresanAppfurthat]

This reminds me SO much of the horrible Amanda Boyle situation in Iowa then in Missouri then in North Dakota then in Nebraska. The hoarding plus lack of care then shrugging off the responsibility then the geographic escape followed by a re-launch of the hoarding.

May I respectfully point out to the warring factions wherever there are horse neglect, abuse or abandonment issues, that no matter what the state laws provide for it takes the strong interest of law enforcement AND the subsequent willingness of the local prosecutor to bring charges and see the case through to conclusion but you can still encounter a judge who either doesn’t know squat, could care less, or knows squat and still could care less. You can rank animal abuse laws top down and bottom up and the animal law websites will happily provide those rankings to the casual researcher. BUT the real bottom line on animal abuse and neglect issues comes down most of the time to that traditional triad of “oh it’s JUST an animal” attitudes desmonstrated so amply by law enforcement, prosecutors and judges. Publicity in these cases helps ENORMOUSLY so the more public ranting and 6 pm local TV news coverage possibly obtainable is usually far more effective than calling, emailing, posting on social media (still useful to get the word out!) or other traditional methods. This type of thing calls for sustained, firm and very determined action. Virginia may be “better” than KY or vice versa. I’m in Oregon - was in Washington and Idaho - and from years as a volunteer in animal rescue and acting as an expert witness in neglect and abuse cases in Washington and Oregon I can tell you that if it doesn’t make it to TV over and over AND OVER with relentless news follow up, the chances of getting much done even in a supposedly “good law” state like Oregon are pretty much zero.

[WNT]

TheresanApp, something similar is happening with an abuse case in Montana. Abuser’s lawyer is trying to get the can kicked far enough down the road that the general public forgets about it. Luckily the prosecutor seems to be a bit of a bulldog, not letting go; and there are a couple of very vocal Facebook groups keeping things updated as news on the case arises.

Very important to keep this sort of thing in the public eye.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Yes, animal abuse (including neglect, hoarding, etc) can be a challenge to get actual guilty verdicts.

The laws have to be there. The penalties, if guilty, should be sufficient to hopefully change behavior. Unfortunately, this can result in the guilty moving to a different state and starting all over again

Law enforcement has to be willing to look for a potential crime and prosecutors have to be willing to pursue the charges to a conviction. The case needs to be strong and prosecution needs to feel it is “winnable” (which can sometimes not be the case based on evidence). And yes, prosecution has to feel the “need” to pursue if indeed it might be winnable. And judges need to be on board. All have to juggle all cases they may be pursuing (LE, prosecution, judges) and that can be a challenge if the agency and individuals are overloaded.

Yes, defense attorneys will pursue the “kick the can” until all parties loose interest and drop charges if they can. Unfortunately, this is their job (FWIW, no way could I be a defense attorney ).

Definitely keeping cases, especially of the repeat offenders or the more horrific abuse/neglect, in the public eye helps as well.

Get to know who, in your local LE, pursues abuse and work with them when you spot something and keep it on their radar. When a case shows up, stay in touch with the prosecutor’s office.

Niggling and helping where you can does go a long way

[luvmytbs]

You are absolutely correct WMW.

But this is KY and we shouldn’t have to “hold guns” to the heads of local authorities when it comes to horse neglect.

Getting right down to the reality of “The Horse Capital of the World” is that local authorities would rather make excuses (knowingly lie) - in front of rolling media cameras - for over 100 dead horses on a kill buyer’s property than to spend one dime on actually pursuing a neglect case involving horses.

Now that other topics have taken over the media, let’s just watch how this Borrel case is just going to slowly fade away with no further action UNLESS someone, somewhere is going to stir the pot.

Hey, the County doesn’t care, they’re not paying for the horses’ upkeep.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;8733054]
Now that other topics have taken over the media, let’s just watch how this Borrel case is just going to slowly fade away with no further action UNLESS someone, somewhere is going to stir the pot. [/QUOTE]

At some level, it doesn’t make any difference what state, including KY, you are in… people will continue to take priority over animals and unfortunately, sometimes that is what it comes down to.

As for the Borrel case fading away unless someone stirs the pot… maybe that person is you? Waiting for “someone” to stir the pot sometimes results in the pot not being stirred. A conviction in KY won’t mean Mr Borrel won’t go someplace else and try again but hopefully that at least would be far away from KY.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Shammy Davis;8729664]
No, but it does mean I will be more receptive to your snarky behavior. I think you may have a future in “rubbish collection” if the horse business goes south on you. Be careful about being too snarky though, I can find a reference or link to support my rubbish even when I know it’s rubbish.:yes:[/QUOTE]

I think very few people that have read my comments over the years would consider few if any to have “snarky behavior”.

I think you need to brush up on the internet/forum definition and use of the work “snarky”.

I see you have taken to the word “rubbish”. I did too having spent a lot of time in Ireland and England. Where it is used in a lot of different ways. Without the benefit of voice inflection it can be “taken” the wrong way.

A bit like the southern term, “bless your heart” in some ways.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8734331]
I think very few people that have read my comments over the years would consider few if any to have “snarky behavior”.

I think you need to brush up on the internet/forum definition and use of the work “snarky”.

I see you have taken to the word “rubbish”. I did too having spent a lot of time in Ireland and England. Where it is used in a lot of different ways. Without the benefit of voice inflection it can be “taken” the wrong way.

A bit like the southern term, “bless your heart” in some ways.[/QUOTE]

Cheers.

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8734331]
I think very few people that have read my comments over the years would consider few if any to have “snarky behavior”.

I think you need to brush up on the internet/forum definition and use of the work “snarky”.

I see you have taken to the word “rubbish”. I did too having spent a lot of time in Ireland and England. Where it is used in a lot of different ways. Without the benefit of voice inflection it can be “taken” the wrong way.

A bit like the southern term, “bless your heart” in some ways.[/QUOTE]

A class act, taking the high road. Thanks, Gumtree!

[Nostalgic_Equine]

Not attempting to stir the pot, just wondering if there have been any updates? I haven’t found any really by using Google. Sadly following in disbelief, since I knew her when she was young.

[ravenclaw]

As far as I know, Maria hasn’t been found. Does that mean she’s hiding somewhere? Or can she be out and about (as long as it’s not in Kentucky)?

There was an article on bloodhorse.com recently that said the horses are improving and they are working to place them in homes. Old Friends took 2 of them.

[Nostalgic_Equine]

http://www.kyagr.com/statevet/strayhorse/

They are attempting to identify and establish ownership I believe. I can find no other information otherwise.