Marilyn Little...do we pretend it never happened?

[LadyB]

I personally think the atmosphere tells you all. There is a reason why many of the UL riders are not a fan of her. Its not because she is good competition, if that was the case many would not like BDJ, Phillip Dutton, Boyd Martin, WFP and Mary King, to just name a few. They are very well liked riders for a reason, because other riders RESPECT their training and earned success.

Many of us know what goes on behind closed doors at the events. I’m not entirely proud of what I have seen as a groom, but I also have to say majority of the UL I respect because of their choices behind closed doors at the big shows. I certainly do not respect MLM. I do not support her ways, I do not support her mind set, and she came in to eventing with a tasteless introduction. Someone who thinks they are better than everyone and can just go from Beginner Novice to a 2* in a year needs some growing up and head shaking. Its unfortunate that KOC is right up her butt and praising her all the time…

I found myself at one point thinking that maybe she had changed and was becoming a more respectful rider, until the blood came along.

When is it okay for blood? Its never ok. When a horse is eliminated from an event because a bush scraped the horse and made it bleed, you respect the decision for the benefit of the horses safety. Because MLM is who she is, she seems to have a secret pass, with blood in the mouth, its allowed. It makes absolutely no sense. This sport is about the horses safety, yet the woman continues to show abuse.

I am not against heavy bitting, depending on the rider. I’ve seen first hand a horse that required a strong bit, but a SOFT rider. There are horses out there that do not respect the jumps, and its a safety concern, but that same rider doesn’t over bit every single horse in their string. MLM continues to over bit all, not just the ones that may need it.

I thought she was stepping out of eventing last year because she stated there is no money in it, and she needs to continue to make money, which is fair. Looks like she’s still around for another year. I find it was a cheap way for her to get onto a US team as she hasn’t been able to in the Jumper World.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=KellyS;8532052]

One of things I’ve found interesting is that those who stable near ML at events have told me about her use of significant amounts of PerfectPrep (the magnesium-based calming paste). This is just another facet of her program that doesn’t sit right with me. Does anyone know if its use is prevalent among upper level eventers?
.[/QUOTE]

I believe magnesium is quite common in eventing before dressage. I’ve seen it used a lot in the last 2 years as I was grooming.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8533189]
I believe magnesium is quite common in eventing before dressage. I’ve seen it used a lot in the last 2 years as I was grooming.[/QUOTE]

magnesium itself? there are many pellets and powders.

I use it on my horse as he is deficient, not for calming.

I don’t use it for an advantage, nor do I boost for shows (dressage). I use it because my horse is night and day better on it.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8533165]
There has been some photoshopping done on that photo in the bit area, or so it looks like to me. My eyes are very peculiar, though.[/QUOTE]

viney, my side job has me fairly intimate with most aspects of photoshop and photoshopping (i do digital painting/photo commissions) - i don’t think the picture has been altered beyond maybe a curve adjustment. certainly don’t think anything was photoshopped.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8533216]
magnesium itself? there are many pellets and powders.

I use it on my horse as he is deficient, not for calming.

I don’t use it for an advantage, nor do I boost for shows (dressage). I use it because my horse is night and day better on it.[/QUOTE]

Yes a magnesium paste. Nupafeed being one of them. They are known as calming supplements supposedly.

How can magnesium help my horse?
Magnesium is responsible for many enzymatic reactions in a horse’s body for day to day function. Magnesium allows horses to manage adrenaline rushes when they become stressed. So by supplementing with a magnesium supplement horses are able to mange those adrenaline rushes,
allowing them to mange stressful situations. Magnesium also plays a huge role in allowing muscles
to stay supple.

[vineyridge]

Yep, gotta artificially calm for dressage. (being snide) Someday, there could well be a baseline test for magnesium, and then what will riders do?

[m_m1]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8533081]
bit guards obstruct the view of the mouth and blood could very easily be missed. - i agree with the rules here, i do not think bit guards should be allowed in dressage.[/QUOTE]

I agree. This makes perfect sense. Thank you for the explanantion.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=goodmorning;8533085]
When they are 4* fit they usually - even on a proper English day - they have a glow. An example of a skinny French horse who is also a notoriously hard keeper, all photos from Burghley, but still has that glow:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8438/7891010954_11e5e4f863_b.jpg
http://875357559f655c0fd9842374.eventingnation.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/tate-bucks.jpg
http://www.equisearch.com/content/content/20299/sinead_halpin_burghley.jpg
http://eventingnation.com/eventingnation.com/images/2012/09/Sinead-Dressage-Burghley-Tate-2012.jpg[/QUOTE]

OK, but this is the danger of posting pictures. The one posted earlier was (I believe) in the early morning and in the mist/overcast, so I don’t know about your horses, but mine rarely manage to be bright and shiny in those conditions (even the one who can be best described as a beached whale). But a few minutes with Teh Google and here’s a bright and shiny but still svelte pic of Demeter.

https://www.an-eventful-life.com.au/files/editorial/2013/galleries/2013_fra-les_etoiles_de_pau%3A_saturday/WEB-13-PAU-USA-Little-5713.jpg

Again, that doesn’t prove much other than cameras can be deceptive creatures!

[NCRider]

I’ve seen a lot of Perfect Prep within the last couple of years. Not multiple tubes and not every horse like in hunters but it’s definitely there. And used before dressage. No one seems concerned about being seen with it.

[redalter]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8529930]
Whether or not COTH collectively agrees on HEARSAY, the fact of the matter is ML has had TWO recorded incidences at SEPARATE VENUES where blood has been drawn. If this is not a case eligible for scrutiny, I do not know what is.

She is running around XC in get-ups that are punishing to the horse in every way imaginable. A chain flash, kineton/crescent noseband, with a one rein gag, a TWISTED wire mouthpiece, attached to a running martingale? In what world is that okay? Does anyone understand how severely punishing that get up is? These particular measures acting alone I could understand - not every horse can compete in a snaffle – but when you combine three or five different (severe) methods of control to control a horse’s face it is glaringly obvious that there are gaps in the horse’s training or that you are not a suitable rider for that horse. It is dangerous, plain and simple, and I truly hope that people understand the amount of pain she is inflicting on her horses.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post.

And FWIW, if it were one or two horses, or here and there, it would be an issue.

That most of her horses go in these get ups? Unacceptable.

[BritishEquestrian]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8533165]
There has been some photoshopping done on that photo in the bit area, or so it looks like to me. My eyes are very peculiar, though.[/QUOTE]

Definitely no photoshop there - if you zoom in to the bit area it looks like a snaffle in a mouth with no editing, what would they gain from it? Besides the Dumas’ must have had their work cut out re-schooling that dangerously strong horse which ML struggled with, no time for photoshop :lol:

[SonnysMom]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8533081]
bit guards obstruct the view of the mouth and blood could very easily be missed. - i agree with the rules here, i do not think bit guards should be allowed in dressage.[/QUOTE]

If that is the only concern then have a bit check after the class. I have a horse that rubs easily, not enough for blood but enough for rubs. He gets rubs on his legs from boots, he got a rub on his back from the seam overlap on his Mattes pad. He rubs easily. I cannot use a loose ring without bit guards for him. I don’t even use a flash. I cannot use a 3 ring gag without bit guards (for foxhunting). I have to tape the hooks on a pelham if I use that as they will rub him. He is gray and white.

It just seems strange to me that I can’t use bit guards to protect him from rubbing. I tried a basic KK bit. That is a pretty soft bit but I would never be able to show in it because of the bit guards. I now use a boucher.

Is blood in the mouth really that much of a problem at the lower levels? (Below double bridle level)

[vineyridge]

I apologize. My eyes are really bad. The way the bit mouth, the metal on the leather strap, and the foam above the flash all come together, along with blurring, all looked to me as if something metal had been photoshopped out.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=SonnysMom;8533526]
If that is the only concern then have a bit check after the class. I have a horse that rubs easily, not enough for blood but enough for rubs. He gets rubs on his legs from boots, he got a rub on his back from the seam overlap on his Mattes pad. He rubs easily. I cannot use a loose ring without bit guards for him. I don’t even use a flash. I cannot use a 3 ring gag without bit guards (for foxhunting). I have to tape the hooks on a pelham if I use that as they will rub him. He is gray and white.

It just seems strange to me that I can’t use bit guards to protect him from rubbing. I tried a basic KK bit. That is a pretty soft bit but I would never be able to show in it because of the bit guards. I now use a boucher.

Is blood in the mouth really that much of a problem at the lower levels? (Below double bridle level)[/QUOTE]

blood in the mouth is a problem period. i am sorry your guy is so thin skinned but i really don’t think we should be bending the rules for one special flower when it will be for the detriment of many others… you can still use the bit rings in XC and stadium and i think that is a fair compromise.

[KellyS]

[QUOTE=DMK;8533279]
OK, but this is the danger of posting pictures. The one posted earlier was (I believe) in the early morning and in the mist/overcast, so I don’t know about your horses, but mine rarely manage to be bright and shiny in those conditions (even the one who can be best described as a beached whale). But a few minutes with Teh Google and here’s a bright and shiny but still svelte pic of Demeter.

https://www.an-eventful-life.com.au/files/editorial/2013/galleries/2013_fra-les_etoiles_de_pau%3A_saturday/WEB-13-PAU-USA-Little-5713.jpg

Again, that doesn’t prove much other than cameras can be deceptive creatures![/QUOTE]

I think this is an interesting discussion, since photos can be so deceiving at times.

We have a hackney horse (pony size) gelding that we competed at the Intermediate Level in combined driving. He’s retired now and has always been a super hard keeper, even in retirement.

However, here is a photo of him competing on an overcast day with intermittent rain showers. Even without the benefit of sunlight, his coat still glows and he even has dapples.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1902498596397&l=d8431468d8

This venue is a 12-hour trip for us, so he had had a long ride down there earlier in the week, and was an even more difficult keeper while away from home.

In addition to the above, he was hard to feed because he has a “hot” personality, so we had to focus on nutrient dense feeds that weren’t high in sugar/starches. While he never had ulcers upon scoping, he lived on Gastrogard when we traveled.

Fitness-wise, marathon day at CDEs, at this level, has a 12 to 15 km track, with 3 sections. Very similar to the classic format of eventing, and about an hour of driving at trot, canter, and gallop, so very comparable to the fitness required for an upper level event horse.

He’s an example of one of the most difficult types of horses to manage, especially while on the road competing, but his competition photos still show the glow that comes from appropriate management.

[redalter]

[QUOTE=KellyS;8533792]
I think this is an interesting discussion, since photos can be so deceiving at times.

We have a hackney horse (pony size) gelding that we competed at the Intermediate Level in combined driving. He’s retired now and has always been a super hard keeper, even in retirement.

However, here is a photo of him competing on an overcast day with intermittent rain showers. Even without the benefit of sunlight, his coat still glows and he even has dapples.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1902498596397&l=d8431468d8

This venue is a 12-hour trip for us, so he had had a long ride down there earlier in the week, and was an even more difficult keeper while away from home.

In addition to the above, he was hard to feed because he has a “hot” personality, so we had to focus on nutrient dense feeds that weren’t high in sugar/starches. While he never had ulcers upon scoping, he lived on Gastrogard when we traveled.

Fitness-wise, marathon day at CDEs, at this level, has a 12 to 15 km track, with 3 sections. Very similar to the classic format of eventing, and about an hour of driving at trot, canter, and gallop, so very comparable to the fitness required for an upper level event horse.

He’s an example of one of the most difficult types of horses to manage, especially while on the road competing, but his competition photos still show the glow that comes from appropriate management.[/QUOTE]

Off thread topic, but wow! Gorgeous! And what a great shot!

[Highflyer]

I think she’s just clipped-- it’s not that uncommon for chestnuts to look a little dull.

[KellyS]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8533832]
I think she’s just clipped-- it’s not that uncommon for chestnuts to look a little dull.[/QUOTE]

Granted, the pony in the photo I shared is bay, but he had just been clipped 2 weeks prior to this competition. He’s normally a bright red bay, but is that mousy bay color in the photos due to clipping.

Here he is in his summer coat on an overcast day at the Devon Horse Show:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3752623368360&l=68864bb734

[chicagojumper]

So, does ML have any horses that she takes xc in just a snaffle or even a more traditional setup? Or is it literally every single horse she competes?

[skipollo]

[QUOTE=chicagojumper;8533912]
So, does ML have any horses that she takes xc in just a snaffle or even a more traditional setup? Or is it literally every single horse she competes?[/QUOTE]

I did find a few, but the photos are all from 2012-2013. It’s like she flipped a switch and decided she needed to raid a hardware store to ride…

Photo 1

Photo 2

Photo 3

Of course we don’t know what mouth pieces they are, particularly questioning the last one, but overall much less severe than what she uses now.