NVM - posted Butet sponsors her but apparently they don’t anymore. YAY
9 Likes
Hmm…not sure how a horse bites its tongue or cheek with its mouth cranked shut. That is a little ‘tongue in cheek’, as I’ve seen one of the bleeding photos from this weekend where the horse’s mouth is slightly open.
What horse person sat down and designed some of this tack? Nosebands with chains? I admit to being a bit old school about tack; I am not entirely clear why anyone wants a crank noseband, period. A friend once told me they come with more padding, although I’ve never found the need for much padding with a loose noseband.
I think my comment is more about “the rules” and “the trends” that ML is particular, but those photos from Friday are upsetting. Most of my eventing volunteering has been jump judging/pole re-setting, but I have volunteered at dressage regionals and was bit/noseband checker. It’s been a while, but I’m fairly sure there was an official rule from USEF dressage. Is there not something similar for eventing?
12 Likes
I just don’t know how I could look my horse in the eye, as my partner, and use some of these bits/set ups that ML does.
If your horse needs that extreme of a set up there is a problem with training or this is not the job for the horse. Not saying if/which is the case for ML, but that’s generally the thought I have in these situations.
And as others have proved, you can make it to the top without all of this hardware.
18 Likes
ML has often defended her choice of tack by saying people don’t understand what it’s like to control a fit UL horse going cross country. Okay, but what about Michael Jung? Yes, he is one of the very best, but Roxie ran crosscountry in snaffle with a flash and a breast plate with no martingale. Even more interesting, she looked eager and keen but was on a very soft rein galloping between fences; MJ picked up a little more contact to set her up for the fences and steer through the combos. And she finished looking full of run and happy.
I am not, and never will be, Michael Jung. But I aspire to ride more like him, rather than someone with half a hardware store in the horse’s mouth.
45 Likes
She is , I am thinking the only one who uses these bitting rigs pretty much on all her horses. She is the only one with bloody mouthed horses. They keep trying to treat these incidents as one offs, but they are habitual. As for difficult horses, anyone ever seen films of Murphy Himself and Ian Stark? But no bloody mouths there. I am contacting her sponsors and usef. This has to stop.
23 Likes
Agreed.
I mean she was on the cover of PRACTICAL HORSEMAN with a CHAIN flash…CHAIN.
Lets be serious.
http://eventingnation.com/photo-gallery-hanging-out-at-the-head-of-the-lake/
Most were riding in full cheeks, gags, or three/two rings…and a few pelhams. All the riders in pelhams have loopy reins.
10 Likes
Exactly. The only reason this goes on in eventing is because the sport is lower profile and less visible and LESS MONEY than show jumping and dressage.
Bloody mouths are not normal and there is no reason to make any exceptions.
Combined with the running death count, and without significant changes, I firmly believe eventing is on its way out of first the Olympics and then the FEI. Who wants to watch horses running around with bloody mouths, let alone breaking down or dying?
18 Likes
I have never made any horse bleed. And maybe…her horses keep biting their lips and tongues because of the ridiculous bits and ridiculously tight nose and she rides them in :mad:
7 Likes
You have to wonder what all the upper level riders who compete against her think? They are doing their job correctly and humanely of preparing their horse but are now getting beat by her and the powers that be are letting her get away with it. It would be very discouraging to me and I wonder why they are not more vocal.
15 Likes
Dude thats because its a complete rarity. The article that @FatCatFarm posts quotes a trainer of thirty years and an FEI groom of 20 years. The trainer has never seen a bloody mouth in thirty years, the groom 1 or 2. I grew up around FEI level show jumpers and eventers and dressage riders. I have also been an FEI groom. I’ve also run around with some pretty rough trainers. I have seen one bloody mouth. One. Edward Gal, 2015 European championships, and Gal pulled up and excused himself even before the bell rang. Because it’s very rare. It’s also something that I absolutely expect the rider to pull up or withdraw beforehand. A friend’s horse had a cut on her lip from turnout. The horse worked in a hackamore until it was healed. Who puts a bit in a horse with a cut bloody mouth, let alone runs a 4* cross country?
It should be against the rules, but it shouldn’t have to be against the rules.
27 Likes
Just got off the phone with enviro equine. They have not decided what to do. Happened to get the owner on the phone, she said.
15 Likes
I would also like to say how much I agree with everyone - excellent points made, no one is attacking the rider, everyone is just concerned with the horses and the sport. This is who we are. Though I find the riders behavior despicable.
6 Likes
oh wow…excellent you got a hold of someone. Perhaps if they know this thread is getting close to 20,000 views in two days, people might start listening.
15 Likes
On the public FB post that was linked, there was a screenshot in the comments from the gut supplement company. In a nutshell they said too bad this incident and your decision to boycott will prevent you from taking good care of your horse like <insert list of UL riders here>. There was a thread here about the company too, how there was no proof that equine bacteria was better than say bovine.
3 Likes
Because it would be career suicide to those who care about getting on the team, and the ones that don’t usually stay in their own lane. I saw Erik Duvander with her more than anyone else at OJC last fall. Didn’t even speak to some other highly placed riders. Marilyn doesn’t compete much and sticks to herself when she does. I have only ever had one interaction with her as a groom, and it wasn’t any different than ones with other riders.
6 Likes
I am 100% in support of adopting the zero tolerance for blood rule.
And I agree with @AlphaMare and the others that have mentioned that this is a PR disaster of epic proportions in the making. Is it not bad enough that eventing is seen as the “horse killing” sport? Now we allow the ones that don’t die to be run with bloody foam clearly spewing from their mouths? If this apparent barbarity is not handled correctly and soon, I think it will be the death of eventing.
We crank our horses mouths shut as tight as we can with ropes and chains, around bits made of twisted wire and sharp-edged metal with long shanks and reins specifically made to gag; we violently yank the reins and jab with our spurs and whips until they collapse from exhaustion. That is what the public sees and hears, and that is #notmysport and Marilyn Little is #NotMyNationalChampion.
The adjudicating organizations in these cases have failed miserably and repeatedly to advocate for THE HORSE. I don’t give a flying hot damn about the riders, the sponsors, the owners, or anyone else whose cheerios get pissed in because they can’t compete their [literal] bloody horse, whether it’s bleeding by accident or by negligence or abuse. We force these horses into service for our pleasure and financial gain and it’s the very, absolute least we can do to be good enough stewards for them to 1) not allow a bleeding horse to compete, and 2) immediately retire any horse that is injured enough to bleed while on course.
Frankly, at this point I’d even get behind a rule limiting hardware choices for the jumping phases. No, I don’t believe every horse must or even can run XC in a snaffle, but… if you’ve got to reach for that chain lever to go with your double twisted wire gag, perhaps it’s time to consider if this horse, job, rider combination is truly a good fit.
47 Likes
[QUOTE=Heinz 57;n10104809]
I am 100% in support of adopting the zero tolerance for blood rule.
And I agree with @AlphaMare and the others that have mentioned that this is a PR disaster of epic proportions in the making. Is it not bad enough that eventing is seen as the “horse killing” sport? Now we allow the ones that don’t die to be run with bloody foam clearly spewing from their mouths? If this apparent barbarity is not handled correctly and soon, I think it will be the death of eventing.
We crank our horses mouths shut as tight as we can with ropes and chains, around bits made of twisted wire and sharp-edged metal with long shanks and reins specifically made to gag; we violently yank the reins and jab with our spurs and whips until they collapse from exhaustion. That is what the public sees and hears, and that is #notmysport and Marilyn Little is #NotMyNationalChampion.
The adjudicating organizations in these cases have failed miserably and repeatedly to advocate for THE HORSE. I don’t give a flying hot damn about the riders, the sponsors, the owners, or anyone else whose cheerios get pissed in because they can’t compete their [literal] bloody horse, whether it’s bleeding by accident or by negligence or abuse. We force these horses into service for our pleasure and financial gain and it’s the very, absolute least we can do to be good enough stewards for them to 1) not allow a bleeding horse to compete, and 2) immediately retire any horse that is injured enough to bleed while on course.
Frankly, at this point I’d even get behind a rule limiting hardware choices for the jumping phases. No, I don’t believe every horse must or even can run XC in a snaffle, but… if you’ve got to reach for that chain lever to go with your double twisted wire gag, perhaps it’s time to consider if this horse, job, rider combination is truly a good fit.
[/QUOT
Yes!!! I wish I could like your post 100000 times!!!
6 Likes
I also am support of %100 blood rule. Would it suck if you have a little scratch here or there? Yes, but perhaps that will also influence course design. Do we need shrubs that scratch the shit out of the horses legs? Bits that cause mouths to foam red?
No, no we don’t.
There was also posting by a groom that her horse was standing in ice from the moment it arrived to the moment it left the horse park. Is this also allowed now? Where is bloody horsemanship…no pun intended.
22 Likes
Saw this too. I wonder how the riders would truly feel knowing their name was being dragged into it. Obviously they won’t speak up, but that’s messed as a sponsor to throw other names out there. Then to say you don’t take care of your horse because you don’t buy their product. That’s ridiculous. Even more of a reason to not support that company. You can see their mindset though, they are ok with horses bleeding, but you know, ulcers are very important to take care of. 
12 Likes
It is sad that these riders are more concerned about political correctness than the image of their sport.
5 Likes
