Quote: In all the pics I have seen where the noseband is bulging, the mare is grinding her teeth. That is kind of the purpose of a flash, to close the mouth when a horse is trying to open it.
I know that there are a lot of tight nosebands and flashes out there – outlandishly tight – but I have had trainers tell me that the flash has a role in keeping the bit stable in the horse’s mouth, appropriately adjusted.
Eventing is a tough and challenging sport and the horses and people who participate in it are talented and resilient. I think in the past that riders have balanced the requirements of the 3 phases with the realization that the horses/our partners need and deserve the utmost in care. As a group we are obsessive with the well being of our horses, and the riders are hands on. (as opposed to a sport where trainers and grooms provide the bulk of the care). Most people would never dream of continuing a practice in their riding, training, and horse care that results in blood coming from the horses mouth. I can find no rule against it in the rule book. Maybe its because it was never needed?
Now there is a person who walks through that hole in the rules. I think its terrible horsemanship and the rule needs to change. I will ask USEA to add this rule and i hope others do too. It will take forever of course, committees, meetings, reviews, approvals and all that stuff. It would be far better if riders who exhibit this behavior were corrected in the meantime, but as many have observed there are are political factors in play here.
USEA isn’t where you need to go, this is an FEI event. There is a blood rule, it specifies at the discretion of the ground jury. The ground jury said the horse was OK.
Thank you fordtraktor! That explains a lot
Meanwhile Packy has nothing but good words to say about ML: https://www.facebook.com/patrick.g.mcgaughan/posts/10217157827483588
The “List” of offenses;
2015 Boekelo CCI*** RF Scandalous - OK to complete BUT withdrew due to a cornet injury. GJ said horse bit its cheek.
2015 Galway Downs CCI***- RF Demeter - Retired on course but not due to blood
Photos: https://the900facebookpony.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/img_2521.jpg
2015 Fair Hill International CCI*** RF West Indie - GJ said it was caused by fitting of the bridle - OK to complete.
Photos: http://www.grandprix-replay.com/us/article/4062/marilyn-little-legitimate-questions-or-witch-hunt-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/furlong47/22185943809/in/dateposted-public/
https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/a-bloody-shame/
eventingnation.com/marilyn-little-addresses-fair-hill-blood-concerns/
“The well being of my horses has always been and continues to be my top priority and concern. My team and I are aware of the recent comments and concerns regarding an occurrence which took place at Fair Hill and do not take any situation affecting the welfare of my horses lightly.”
"After dismounting following my cross country round at Fair Hill, I noticed a bit of blood coming from my horse’s mouth, that I had been unable to see while mounted. This was very concerning to me and I immediately sought veterinary care by both the FEI vets on hand, and my personal veterinarian who was also on site.
"After examination, the veterinarians and officials on hand determined the source of blood had resulted from my horse’s cheek being pinched, creating a small cut. The bleeding quickly resolved, and the vets concluded no further treatment was necessary.
“I strongly support the FEI and the carefully constructed protocol they have put in place for times such as this to assure the well being and safety of our equine partners. My team and I will be doing everything possible to avoid anything similar to this occurrence taking place in the future and appreciate everyone’s concern.”
EN contacted the FEI after Fair Hill in regards to the incident. An FEI spokesperson responded to EN today with the following statement:
"The FEI and the United States Equestrian Federation regards the welfare of our equine partners as paramount.
"Pain or injury in any form is cause for concern and we have systems in place to make sure that trained officials are involved in cases such as the one at Fair Hill.
2016 Fair Hill - RF Scandalous - OK to complete - GJ was told horse bit her cheek
“I want her to absolutely be as comfortable as she possibly can, that’s why I had chosen that bit. It allows me to balance her, and yet it’s a very smooth mouthpiece and a nice soft leather noseband,” Little added. "I think she goes well in it. She bit her tongue, and it can happen at any time, but maybe I can look into some ways to keep that from happening in the future. It didn’t seem to alter her performance, and I hope it doesn’t happen again.
Little released a statement after Fair Hill last year, explaining that RF West Indie had pinched her cheek and that FEI veterinarians agreed she was fit to continue. Officials confirmed that fact.
After Galway she released another statement saying that a change in bitting hadn’t worked out the way she’d hoped and that she didn’t have the control she needed, but it didn’t address the blood.
"
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/magazine-fair-hill-blood-incident-incites-frustrations
Pic: https://the900facebookpony.com/2016/10/19/fair-hill-part-3-the-thing-were-all-talking-about/
2018 Land Rover Kentucky CCI**** - OK to complete - GJ said horse grazed a fence and bit lip in warm up
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/marilyn-little-responds-to-blood-incident-at-land-rover-kentucky
So basically we have these incidents, all blamed on cheek or tongue biting, no one ever doing anything, and the same excuses being bought, and our sport being destroyed with each incident. This has been going on for three years now. It’s time for the FEI, USEA, and her sponsors to grow a back bone.
Current owners as per Packy
Owned now by Pheobe and Michael Manders and Ms. Jacqueline Mars
Those damn Rosie Glasses are strong though.
I just wrote a huge long detailed post of all the incidents and Coth ate it…grrrrrrrrrrrrr lol trying again lol
This is fun - Packy’s response to comment on his post asking about the blood incident:
Because she has a group of people that stalk her hoping to find evidence of abuse, Marilyn does everything she can to make sure things like this do not happen. Her statement is the best explanationnof what happened but that will never satisfy those out there that are compelled to criticize her. It is what it is.
:lol:
The “list” of incidents;
[B]2015 Galway International CCI***- RF Demeter - Cause by bit tongue - GJ cleared to compete
2015 Fair Hill CCI*** RF West Indie - Bit cheek - GJ cleared to continue[/B]
http://eventingnation.com/marilyn-li…lood-concerns/
“The well being of my horses has always been and continues to be my top priority and concern. My team and I are aware of the recent comments and concerns regarding an occurrence which took place at Fair Hill and do not take any situation affecting the welfare of my horses lightly.”
"After dismounting following my cross country round at Fair Hill, I noticed a bit of blood coming from my horse’s mouth, that I had been unable to see while mounted. This was very concerning to me and I immediately sought veterinary care by both the FEI vets on hand, and my personal veterinarian who was also on site.
"After examination, the veterinarians and officials on hand determined the source of blood had resulted from my horse’s cheek being pinched, creating a small cut. The bleeding quickly resolved, and the vets concluded no further treatment was necessary.
“I strongly support the FEI and the carefully constructed protocol they have put in place for times such as this to assure the well being and safety of our equine partners. My team and I will be doing everything possible to avoid anything similar to this occurrence taking place in the future and appreciate everyone’s concern.”
EN contacted the FEI after Fair Hill in regards to the incident. An FEI spokesperson responded to EN today with the following statement:
"The FEI and the United States Equestrian Federation regards the welfare of our equine partners as paramount.
"Pain or injury in any form is cause for concern and we have systems in place to make sure that trained officials are involved in cases such as the one at Fair Hill.
[B]2015 Boekelo CCI*** RF Scandalous - Bit cheek - GJ cleared to continue - WD because of coronet band injury
2016 Fair Hill CCI*** RF Scandalous - Caused by fitting of bridle - GJ cleared to continue[/B]
https://the900facebookpony.com/2016/…talking-about/
https://www.equnews.com/sport-news/e…te-blood-rule/
2018 Land Rover Kentucky CC**** - RF Scandalous - caused by bit lip - and hit face on course - GJ okd to continue
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/…rover-kentucky
Photos and articles:
http://www.grandprix-replay.com/us/a…or-witch-hunt-
https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/a-bloody-shame/
So we have here three years of history of accidental cheek and tongue biting, with the GJ turning a blind eye, the FEI and USEA turning a blind eye, and her sponsors still supporting her like everything is totally cool.
@packy mcgaughan at what point does this become a pattern to you?
How many WHOOPS bitten tongues and cheeks does it take?
WAKE UP.
Perhaps the same reason she used a chain flash on Udonna. On the front cover of Practical Horseman no less…
:lol: if you’re doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to prove that you’re doing nothing wrong. 
So, she must be doing something wrong if she feels like she needs to point out that she’s doing nothing wrong.
I think that worst part of his post was:
In regards to the flash during dressage "
The stewards were particularly upset about that because their integrity was called into question"
Why yes, their integrity should be called into question for allowing that… go on
Again, she has people who stalk her hoping to force her out
.
Maybe there are other people who do stalk her, but she probably wouldn’t be on most people’s radar if her horses didn’t bleed from their mouths.
I ended up talking pictures of bits and noseband all day yesterday. In the end, winning the dressage is the best defense
I can’t even find words for that statement, but I personally wouldn’t want to win like that.
I’m hoping someone comes up with a list and pix. I’ve seen many, too many, and this rider needs to be schooled. Bloody Marilyn indeed, how can any caring horseman do this to their horses? Answer: Bloody Marilyn is not a caring horseman.
What bothers me, blood aside, is that when ML releases PR/statements about this, she never seems remorseful.
Compare, for instance, to Steffen Peters, who seemed abjectly horrified and contrite, credited the blood to him, and his riding, and owned up to the fact he was responsible for his horse’s welfare. Never once did he say the horse was culpable for it.
And then you get ML, who each time, says “she bit herself”. Not a whit of ownership in the fact she (or her tack) might be the one causing the horse to bite itself.
I do think that it’s a shame that there have been so many incidents and ML has been allowed to proceed. I think that the rules need revisiting, as mentioned in another thread. The rules should protect horses and prevent situations like this, which is repeat incidents, from ever transpiring.
Nothing against ML, since I recognize she has completely turned her riding style around (her XC is just night and day from her XC outing in 2015), but anyone who has had repeat offenses needs some sort of punitive measure.
The ass-kissing from his commenters’ replies is almost too much to bear. It’d be funny if it weren’t so sad…
Because she has a group of people that stalk her hoping to find evidence of abuse, Marilyn does everything she can to make sure things like this do not happen. Her statement is the best explanationnof what happened but that will never satisfy those out there that are compelled to criticize her. It is what it is.
The reality…
If she’s trying to “make sure things like this do not happen”, she sure is doing an extremely terrible job.
I have emailed the FEI and USEA - I suggest we all do the same. I’m not making this about Marilyn, but more showing the pattern and the lack of consequences thanks to the USEA and FEI.
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