Mark Todd may be in trouble

[Anne_FS]

A neck rub is nice. A lot of riders do that.

Agree that some of it is for the cameras, but also agree that yes, I like to see acknowledgement of the horse with a pat, scritch, or rub, whatever the horse likes, after they’re done. No going overboard, but it’s nice to see and I admit it looks bad if the horse is not acknowledged at all.

If you don’t believe me, watch high school rodeo. I watched it on local cable last year. The PA Farm Show in January has a big high school rodeo competition. I watched barrel racing and 99.9% of those girls had zero acknowledgement of their horses after a run. Actually, that’s not true. The ones with bad runs looked absolutely rip**** furious and hauled their horses’ mouths around. I wanted to yank them off their horses and stuff them upside down in a manure bin.

It was hard to watch, and IMO looked terrible. Whether it was true or not, it certainly appeared that the competitors didn’t give a hoot about the horse unless it was the fastest, and if it wasn’t, it surely was the horse’s fault and there was going to be hell to pay when they got back to the barn. Didn’t help that there were lots of close-up camera shots of the competitors, too. Big bunch of angry-looking teenagers.

[monstrpony]

Anyone read Karen’s bit on what happened after she crossed the finish flags with Mr. M? That her horse, who was still full of running, wouldn’t stop, and nearly veered into the ropes at the sharp turn in the lane?

If any of them were able to hop off their horse right at the line, it’s because their horses were cooked. Hopping off and focusing on loosening tack, making it easier for the horse to breathe, and getting moving in a walk is the ultimate priority in that case, not patting or rubbing or kissing or cooing. Staying on their back just to be polite to the ground team is a ridiculous thought.

Personally, I hate it when riders finish a good round or a good test and whap their horse on the neck with a flat open hand. It’s a great way to release the pent up emotion, but does it really feel that good to the horse? No wonder so many horses hop a bit when riders do this. A nice, quiet, subtle rub up the mane and a “good fellow” in a quiet voice is so much more pleasant to the horse, even if the camera is inclined to miss it. If you don’t think these riders know the best way to reward their horses … well, I don’t know what to say to you.

Geez.

[yellowbritches]

We had a crazy ass NZ horse who would threaten to dump you if you patted him. He’d even leave the cross ties if you patted him while grooming him. HATED it. We learned, quickly, rubs not pats with him.

Toby, while not nearly as violent as that loony tune, does not like pats. I always try to rub him, but sometimes I forget. His preferred praise is a “good man” then being fed his weight in Meadow Mints and getting the most coveted reward of all, a good, aggressive, bowl me over head rub on my back.

[DMK]

@monstrpony;6469221

Personally, I hate it when riders finish a good round or a good test and whap their horse on the neck with a flat open hand. It’s a great way to release the pent up emotion, but does it really feel that good to the horse? No wonder so many horses hop a bit when riders do this. A nice, quiet, subtle rub up the mane and a “good fellow” in a quiet voice is so much more pleasant to the horse, even if the camera is inclined to miss it. If you don’t think these riders know the best way to reward their horses … well, I don’t know what to say to you.

Geez.

Like others have said, it entirely depends on the horse. My old hunter loved it, got all big and porpoisey and did happy head shakes when he got the BIG PAT. My younger horse HATES it, and would seriously think about spinning if I tried. I don’t think he’s even that thrilled about little pats and scritchies that I sneak in,

Funny thing is the rest of the time these horses are exact opposites of their ring persona. The older one prefers if you just don’t really pet him thank you very much - HATES when you touch his face, meanwhile the younger one will mug you for attention. He likes it when you hold his face and hug him and actually “slap” his muzzle (holds his face out sideways and opens his mouth a bit so it makes this strange popping sound - he’s a Very Odd Little Horse).

I do agree sometimes people’s enthusiasm over their horse’s performance goes a bit too far, but it comes from a very genuine place so I’m not going to begrudge them a moment of extreme appreciation in the heat of the moment, no way.

[RiderWriter]

Personally, I love it when riders give their horse a big 'ole neck hug. Zara Phillips did that once she’d left the arena and that warms my heart towards her. Now, if your horse doesn’t like that it’s another thing!

I remember reading somewhere about a study that evaluated what kind of “physical” reward horses prefer, whether a rub/pat/slap/whatever. It sticks in my mind that in general, they don’t like a big slap. So I’ve been cringing a bit when some riders really whack the horse. However, I’d rather see that than zero acknowledgement.

I tend to just use my voice to praise - all the time - during rides, and little pats.

OTOH, I’ve never just finished an Olympic dressage/XC/showjump, either! Heaven knows what I might do in the heat of the moment. :lol:

[vineyridge]

Probably the big slap is rider elation for finishing and staying on. If the horse were a person, it would be a high five.

[quietann]

[QUOTE=RiderWriter;6469463]
Personally, I love it when riders give their horse a big 'ole neck hug. Zara Phillips did that once she’d left the arena and that warms my heart towards her. Now, if your horse doesn’t like that it’s another thing!

I remember reading somewhere about a study that evaluated what kind of “physical” reward horses prefer, whether a rub/pat/slap/whatever. It sticks in my mind that in general, they don’t like a big slap. So I’ve been cringing a bit when some riders really whack the horse. However, I’d rather see that than zero acknowledgement. [/QUOTE]

That’s what I recall, too… The neck slap has a sudden sharp noise (and we know how much horses just LOVE sudden sharp noises) and may sting a bit, like a kick.

A rub on the withers is very close to what horses do to each other when they are feeling friendly. I tend to do that with my mare, along with a lot of verbal praise. Hugs are more for me than for her

[dressagetraks]

This reminds me of one of my favorite moments from the 1992 dressage. I was rewatching 1992 a few weeks ago, as I just got it converted VHS to DVD.

At one point in her test, maybe after changes, definitely after a diagonal, Nicole Uphoff reached up VERY SLIGHTLY with her outside hand as she got back to the railing and gave Rembrandt a little pat. Just once, and her hand probably only moved a few inches forward, if that. Immediately continued with the test. Just a little “good boy” moment in the middle of her test, and I’m sure the horse read it. I’ve always loved that image. That wasn’t display - in fact, she probably didn’t want the judges to see it. Would have been totally private between her and the horse if there hadn’t happened to be a camera focused on the end of that diagonal. She was just so pleased with that movement that she had to praise him right then, just between the two of them.

That one little pat has stuck in my mind since 1992 far more than all the exuberant pats and having a full party with band for the horse at the end that I see some riders doing. She did pat him more openly at the end of the test, though not the huge whallops. But that one little private bump, just for him alone to notice - that was a neat moment.

[Blugal]

dressagetraks,
There is a similar moment during Fuego’s test at WEG 2010.

[Roheryn]

@monstrpony;6469221

Personally, I hate it when riders finish a good round or a good test and whap their horse on the neck with a flat open hand. It’s a great way to release the pent up emotion, but does it really feel that good to the horse?

Ginny Leng was fond of doing this sort of wackwack “pat”. My husband went on a clinic with Desi Lorent, a pupil of Nuno Oliviera’s, soon after Ginnie won Gatcombe one year. Desi would roar "Caress your horse ! " He hated Ginny’s slap and insisted that we caress the horse after dismounting either on his neck or between his front legs.

[yellowbritches]

[QUOTE=dressagetraks;6470191]
This reminds me of one of my favorite moments from the 1992 dressage. I was rewatching 1992 a few weeks ago, as I just got it converted VHS to DVD.

At one point in her test, maybe after changes, definitely after a diagonal, Nicole Uphoff reached up VERY SLIGHTLY with her outside hand as she got back to the railing and gave Rembrandt a little pat. Just once, and her hand probably only moved a few inches forward, if that. Immediately continued with the test. Just a little “good boy” moment in the middle of her test, and I’m sure the horse read it. I’ve always loved that image. That wasn’t display - in fact, she probably didn’t want the judges to see it. Would have been totally private between her and the horse if there hadn’t happened to be a camera focused on the end of that diagonal. She was just so pleased with that movement that she had to praise him right then, just between the two of them.

That one little pat has stuck in my mind since 1992 far more than all the exuberant pats and having a full party with band for the horse at the end that I see some riders doing. She did pat him more openly at the end of the test, though not the huge whallops. But that one little private bump, just for him alone to notice - that was a neat moment. :)[/QUOTE]
I believe Ingrid Klimke did that with Abraxxas at either the WEG or in Hong Kong…it was well timed and very sweet. Also saw Andrew Hoy do it this weekend with his horse. I would love to be able to do that, but my horses have never been broke enough that I could let off for that half second!!! :lol:

[Rallycairn]

So, what, ultimately, was Todd’s penalty/reprimand, if any, for use of whip after last obstacle? TIA

[Blugal]

[QUOTE=Blugal;6467711]
The FEI rule is as follows (Article 520):

2. Whips
3. The whip cannot be used to vent an athlete’s temper. Such use is always
   excessive
4. The whip is not to be used after elimination or after a horse has jumped
   the last fence on a course
5. The whip is never to be used overhand, (e.g. a whip in the right hand
   being used on the left flank). The use of a whip on a horse’s head, etc., is
   always excessive use.
6. A horse should never be hit more than three times for any one incident.
   If a horse skin is broken, its use is excessive
7. An athlete identified as misusing or excessive use of the whip will be
   eliminated at the discretion of the Ground Jury[/QUOTE]

First the Ground Jury would have had to decide if it was “misusing or excessive use of the whip.” If they decided it was, then they could eliminate him at their discretion.

The section of the FEI rulebook that deals with horse abuse rule continues, however, giving the Ground Jury a few more options for punishments:

• Recorded verbal warning
• Yellow warning card
• Elimination
• Fine
• Disqualification

We know he wasn’t eliminated or disqualified, so the options are:

1. The Ground Jury did not think it was misusing or excessive use of whip, or horse abuse

2. The Ground Jury wasn’t aware of the incident

3. The Ground Jury decided it was misusing or excessive use of whip, but used its discretion not to eliminate him

4. The Ground Jury decided it fell under horse abuse and gave him a recorded verbal warning, a yellow card, or a fine. Any of these will be reported, not for some time, and will be available somewhere in the black hole that is the FEI website.

[kalidascope]

[QUOTE=Blugal;6470779]
4. The Ground Jury decided it fell under horse abuse and gave him a recorded verbal warning, a yellow card, or a fine. Any of these will be reported, not for some time, and will be available somewhere in the black hole that is the FEI website.[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure that if official action has been taken it would have been reported/mentioned by the team.

So I’m inclined to think nothing came of it and perhaps the GJ did not even talk to him. Does anyone even know if the GJ was aware of it, or did someone just happen to notice he used his whip and raised the flag (online)?

[Napoles]

Scroll down through here to see a photo of a lovely show of appreciation from Joseph Murphy to Electric Cruise as they cool down after their cross country.

http://eventingnation.com/home/monday-social-media-roundup.html

[mayhew]

Awww. There’s something about a man kissing a horse…

[vineyridge]

It was definitely misuse of the whip because the rule is so specific.

Either the GJ wasn’t aware or in their discretion they decided to ignore the rule under the circumstances or there will be a verbal warning later.

Toothless rule.

[BAC]

Most likely they ignored the rule because it was Mark Todd. And I suppose for the good of the sport in the general public’s eye its better to pretend an infraction didn’t occur, rather than have reports of a two time Olympic gold medalist taken down for abuse of the horse. The press would love a story like that. :no:

[monstrpony]

The GJ’s deciding, at their discretion, not to eliminate, is not ignoring the rule, which says that elimination is at their discretion. It would be applying the rule, which allows for their discretion.

[Napoles]

It’s possible that the Ground Jury did speak to him. Any sort of disciplinaries are conducted in extreme private away from any sort of media or public intrusion.
If he got a speaking to without receiving a yellow card (which are published), it is unlikely anyone except those closely connected would know.