Martin to sell Love the Chase......

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;8820385]

The Martins flunked ESP-101 just like I did. They are doing the best with what they know. If it had happened to me, I only wish I could play the game as well.[/QUOTE]

Yes to this.

I don’t understand the drama around these horses and their owners.

California Chrome is a great horse. His owners have campaigned him really, really successfully. He has made tons of money. He’s healthy. He is pampered. He has a great life ahead filled with better food, better medical care, better grooming, bathing and general attention than a large portion of the human beings on our planet.

Love the Chase is in a similar place. She faces medical risks from pregnancies, but being pregnant is a normal thing for a healthy, fertile mare of her age – if she were wild with the same robust health and plentiful food and water, she would be pregnant too, but without the help of modern medicine when things go wrong. She is pampered. She too has a great life ahead of her filled with better food, better medical care, better grooming, bathing and general attention than a large portion of the human beings on our planet.

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;8820463]
CC et al maybe going with the devil they know (he can still race/win and appears to still enjoy it) vs the devil you don’t (War Emblem who just didn’t like the girls, or the stallion, forgetting his name at the moment, who was basically infertile).[/QUOTE]

He’ll be well insured against those possibilities.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8820522]
He’ll be well insured against those possibilities.[/QUOTE]

I know

Just at the moment, the decision to keep CC racing is maybe based on the above… the connections know he can race/win and have decided to take that risk over retirement and its risks (such as yes, Cigar (thank you) and War Emblem).

Who knows… if I owned CC, I probably would have retired him before now but then again, I only watch him on TV Even though I’m not a “Chromie” I do respect his abilities.

[snaffle1987]

just piss poor planning if you ask me in order to get every ounce of money they can out of his career. I am far from a “chromie”; I just never cared an ounce for the Chrome camp. Who pays for it at the end of the year? those who invested in the potential to breed to him this coming year and had mares set and scheduled to go to him. What I find it appalling is that you are supporting this horse going from mach 10 at the racetrack to 3 weeks downtime and immediately turning around to breed a book of 100 mares right off the bat. I doubt the horse is going to say no to breeding mares but can anyone say ulcers/colic/you name it coming down the line with that type of “let down”.

I am guessing taylor made has already done the full work up of Chrome’s reproductive health before investing in him. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is already little chromes on the ground from test breeding’s (grades) during his time off when he filled out a year ago.
back on the subject of the dam; I think she offers a neat pedigree and something for breeders. I particularly like the way her dam is bred with sir ivor and sir Gaylord being so close. interesting note, his granddam- Chase it Down only sold for 1000.00 at the December Fasig Tipton sale in 2008. Anyone know where she ended up>? Owner listed as Chris Degregorio of West Virginia. She was sold covered to Medalist. the resulting foal, Numbers Chase owned by T.w. Stables has won 200.00.

[SnicklefritzG]

Some barns at the major stud farms are nicer than many houses even in nice neighborhoods.

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8820521]
Yes to this.

Love the Chase is in a similar place. She faces medical risks from pregnancies, but being pregnant is a normal thing for a healthy, fertile mare of her age – if she were wild with the same robust health and plentiful food and water, she would be pregnant too, but without the help of modern medicine when things go wrong. She is pampered. She too has a great life ahead of her filled with better food, better medical care, better grooming, bathing and general attention than a large portion of the human beings on our planet.[/QUOTE]

[snaffle1987]

side bar note, Love the Chase has a full sibling named JoJos Bandit. Unraced and born in 2004 to Bowman & Higgins Stable, Maryland.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8819906]
what struck me is that Perry wants the Pegasus title with Chrome and in order to do that needs to push the horse to do it and then only give the horse 3 weeks of turnaround time to start the breeding season.

What I see is a group of money hungry lunatics who, at that point, are pushing a horse beyond measure in order to capitalize on every dollar and cent they possibly can; with little regard on the horse’s welfare at the end of it.

I think Sherman has done a stellar job with the horse and keeping the best care on him and always looking out for the horse’s best interest.

Although Perry Martin only owns 10% of the horse now, I am guessing Taylor Made retains majority interest in the horse? But there are apparently 22 other investors with their hand in the cookie jar.

I get it, the horse is at the top of his game and still seems happy doing his thing. This is a business and they are running their “business” to capitalize on every dollar they can. But at what cost? Run the breeders cup and retire the horse happy and healthy and give him the proper down time in order to make it to the breeding shed in proper order.

Say what you want but Perry Martin is a greedy SOB and should not be the spokesperson nor the person calling the shots if he only owns 10%. If any one thinks this man gives a damn about California Chrome; guess again. The only thing he sees and cares about is dollar signs. For all that horse has done for his life; I have never once seen him speak one ounce of compassion towards that stallion. Leave those decisions up to someone like Taylor Made who knows how they want their stallion to start the breeding season; and my guess is they don’t want him 3 weeks rested off his last race going into a book of 100+ mares.

As for his dam, Love the Chase; I personally think she looks better now than she ever has. If Taylor Made is caring for her; they have done a lovely job. I did not care for the mare when she was in California, she was plain jane and looked a bit frumpy. They have definitely done a 180 with her and she looks every bit the dam of Chrome. Being in foal to Tapit; I am sure she is going to find a lovely home; I just hope she stays on this side of the atlantic; which does worry me as the mares tend to fall off the radar once overseas.[/QUOTE]

What have you done with your race horses?

I’m going to call a horse with CC’s record “masterfully managed.” He’s 5 years old and run 23 times. I don’t see anything greedy or excessive or pushy in that. With 14 wins, 3 seconds and a third, they appear to be doing just about everything right.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8820423]
It seems a tad hysterical to paint Perry Martin as “a greedy SOB” because he wants to run his horse three weeks before the start of breeding season. The fact that stallions usually have a bigger break between racing and breeding is due more to scheduling than preference. It could be that three weeks is just fine–if not, they can delay booking his first mares.

Don’t forget, California Chrome will be the one who has the last vote. If he doesn’t want to breed mares three weeks after coming off the track, he won’t.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, also with him scheduled to retire 3 weeks before the official start, it could be that some mare owners may opt to wait until '18 and book the mare elsewhere if she is on the books to be bred in Feb/March (just in case he is not up to full book demands so quickly) so he may, through circumstance, end up with a light book the first year.

Or (because we don’t know these things) maybe they plan to limit his northern hemisphere book and focus on the southern hemisphere in fall (although I suspect it would be cost prohibitive to insure him for that right off the bat, but I guess that depends on his estimated value at stud).

[Vivace1]

Taylor Made just said he may run a full season in 2017.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8819906]
what struck me is that Perry wants the Pegasus title with Chrome and in order to do that needs to push the horse to do it and then only give the horse 3 weeks of turnaround time to start the breeding season.

What I see is a group of money hungry lunatics who, at that point, are pushing a horse beyond measure in order to capitalize on every dollar and cent they possibly can; with little regard on the horse’s welfare at the end of it.

I think Sherman has done a stellar job with the horse and keeping the best care on him and always looking out for the horse’s best interest.

Although Perry Martin only owns 10% of the horse now, I am guessing Taylor Made retains majority interest in the horse? But there are apparently 22 other investors with their hand in the cookie jar.

I get it, the horse is at the top of his game and still seems happy doing his thing. This is a business and they are running their “business” to capitalize on every dollar they can. But at what cost? Run the breeders cup and retire the horse happy and healthy and give him the proper down time in order to make it to the breeding shed in proper order.

Say what you want but Perry Martin is a greedy SOB and should not be the spokesperson nor the person calling the shots if he only owns 10%. If any one thinks this man gives a damn about California Chrome; guess again. The only thing he sees and cares about is dollar signs. For all that horse has done for his life; I have never once seen him speak one ounce of compassion towards that stallion. Leave those decisions up to someone like Taylor Made who knows how they want their stallion to start the breeding season; and my guess is they don’t want him 3 weeks rested off his last race going into a book of 100+ mares.

As for his dam, Love the Chase; I personally think she looks better now than she ever has. If Taylor Made is caring for her; they have done a lovely job. I did not care for the mare when she was in California, she was plain jane and looked a bit frumpy. They have definitely done a 180 with her and she looks every bit the dam of Chrome. Being in foal to Tapit; I am sure she is going to find a lovely home; I just hope she stays on this side of the atlantic; which does worry me as the mares tend to fall off the radar once overseas.[/QUOTE]

There are so many inaccuracies in the above post that it’s unreal.

Why are you so worked up about this horse’s connections?

Your characterization of the syndicate owners of horses and/or stallion shares as “people with their hand in the cookie jar” is bizarre.

Mares don’t necessarily “fall off the radar once overseas”. There are many “overseas” farms that feature U.S. bred mares that were bought at auction (and their foals) on their websites. They may fall off your radar, but for people who are truly interested it isn’t hard to look them up. You have as good a chance at finding photos of them as you do of finding public photos of mares bought by U.S. buyers.

You are only concerned about the horse crossing the Atlantic? What about the Pacific?

How do you know what it is that Martin owns? 10% of what? Stallion shares when the horse retires to stud? Until then he may retain majority ownership in the horse.
I mean this sincerely, do you actually know what you are talking about? I don’t get that impression…

[rinny]

I am so happy that the Martins’ are continuing to support Chrome. They are giving him every chance.

[rinny]

What makes you think Sherman is not pushing and Martin and the Taylors are. Seems rather telling the way the labels get pushed on.

[rinny]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8819906]
what struck me is that Perry wants the Pegasus title with Chrome and in order to do that needs to push the horse to do it and then only give the horse 3 weeks of turnaround time to start the breeding season.

What I see is a group of money hungry lunatics who, at that point, are pushing a horse beyond measure in order to capitalize on every dollar and cent they possibly can; with little regard on the horse’s welfare at the end of it.

I think Sherman has done a stellar job with the horse and keeping the best care on him and always looking out for the horse’s best interest.

Although Perry Martin only owns 10% of the horse now, I am guessing Taylor Made retains majority interest in the horse? But there are apparently 22 other investors with their hand in the cookie jar.

I get it, the horse is at the top of his game and still seems happy doing his thing. This is a business and they are running their “business” to capitalize on every dollar they can. But at what cost? Run the breeders cup and retire the horse happy and healthy and give him the proper down time in order to make it to the breeding shed in proper order.

Say what you want but Perry Martin is a greedy SOB and should not be the spokesperson nor the person calling the shots if he only owns 10%. If any one thinks this man gives a damn about California Chrome; guess again. The only thing he sees and cares about is dollar signs. For all that horse has done for his life; I have never once seen him speak one ounce of compassion towards that stallion. Leave those decisions up to someone like Taylor Made who knows how they want their stallion to start the breeding season; and my guess is they don’t want him 3 weeks rested off his last race going into a book of 100+ mares.

As for his dam, Love the Chase; I personally think she looks better now than she ever has. If Taylor Made is caring for her; they have done a lovely job. I did not care for the mare when she was in California, she was plain jane and looked a bit frumpy. They have definitely done a 180 with her and she looks every bit the dam of Chrome. Being in foal to Tapit; I am sure she is going to find a lovely home; I just hope she stays on this side of the atlantic; which does worry me as the mares tend to fall off the radar once overseas.[/QUOTE]

Taylor Made owns less. The Martin plan was to trickle down to 10% of breeding shares. That is not the same as ownership. They are not considered wealthy in the horsey set.

[rinny]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8819906]
what struck me is that Perry wants the Pegasus title with Chrome and in order to do that needs to push the horse to do it and then only give the horse 3 weeks of turnaround time to start the breeding season.

What I see is a group of money hungry lunatics who, at that point, are pushing a horse beyond measure in order to capitalize on every dollar and cent they possibly can; with little regard on the horse’s welfare at the end of it.

I think Sherman has done a stellar job with the horse and keeping the best care on him and always looking out for the horse’s best interest.

Although Perry Martin only owns 10% of the horse now, I am guessing Taylor Made retains majority interest in the horse? But there are apparently 22 other investors with their hand in the cookie jar.

I get it, the horse is at the top of his game and still seems happy doing his thing. This is a business and they are running their “business” to capitalize on every dollar they can. But at what cost? Run the breeders cup and retire the horse happy and healthy and give him the proper down time in order to make it to the breeding shed in proper order.

Say what you want but Perry Martin is a greedy SOB and should not be the spokesperson nor the person calling the shots if he only owns 10%. If any one thinks this man gives a damn about California Chrome; guess again. The only thing he sees and cares about is dollar signs. For all that horse has done for his life; I have never once seen him speak one ounce of compassion towards that stallion. Leave those decisions up to someone like Taylor Made who knows how they want their stallion to start the breeding season; and my guess is they don’t want him 3 weeks rested off his last race going into a book of 100+ mares.

As for his dam, Love the Chase; I personally think she looks better now than she ever has. If Taylor Made is caring for her; they have done a lovely job. I did not care for the mare when she was in California, she was plain jane and looked a bit frumpy. They have definitely done a 180 with her and she looks every bit the dam of Chrome. Being in foal to Tapit; I am sure she is going to find a lovely home; I just hope she stays on this side of the atlantic; which does worry me as the mares tend to fall off the radar once overseas.[/QUOTE]

Crying and Sobbing at Every event and photo op does not equate to compassion or love. Me thinks someone is complaining a bit too much. Child molesters and politicians are known to be baby kissers in public.

Spreading nasty rumors about people who are unknown to one is a deep character flaw and should send up a red flag. Martin was there for Chrome when his partner appeared to loose faith. Martin stood fast chose to send his horse to Taylor Made early on. Coburn is a good man but an overly prideful one. That is why he missed some very good opportunities. He would have been a happier man today had he taken the time to respect his partner. There is no need to show such jealousy of success. We all want it in some form.

Based on your own comments, would you want to be Perry or Denise Martin today?

[rinny]

[rinny]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;8820580]
I know

Just at the moment, the decision to keep CC racing is maybe based on the above… the connections know he can race/win and have decided to take that risk over retirement and its risks (such as yes, Cigar (thank you) and War Emblem).

Who knows… if I owned CC, I probably would have retired him before now but then again, I only watch him on TV Even though I’m not a “Chromie” I do respect his abilities.[/QUOTE]

I have been told that the Taylors and Martins were having fun. Go figure.

[snaffle1987]

Art Sherman, I highly doubt, is the one pushing to race the horse. I know he has pushed back to his ownership in the past and has masterfully tried to plan the appropriate racing schedule for him. The trainer is ultimately not the one making the calls; especially if there is someone like taylor made in the mix

I honestly think that they could be worried that his pedigree will not demand in the breeding shed and therefore continuing to race is the better option business-wise. I think sending love the chase out into the market will be a tell tale sign of what others are willing to invest in the bloodline and will play a deciding factor on what they decide to do with chrome early next year

While his pedigree may not be the standout Kentucky blue blood; I think his pedigree offers a lot to breeders out there. I’d like to see Love the Chase bred back to Uncle Mo next round.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8821645]
Art Sherman, I highly doubt, is the one pushing to race the horse. I know he has pushed back to his ownership in the past and has masterfully tried to plan the appropriate racing schedule for him. The trainer is ultimately not the one making the calls; especially if there is someone like taylor made in the mix

I honestly think that they could be worried that his pedigree will not demand in the breeding shed and therefore continuing to race is the better option business-wise. I think sending love the chase out into the market will be a tell tale sign of what others are willing to invest in the bloodline and will play a deciding factor on what they decide to do with chrome early next year

While his pedigree may not be the standout Kentucky blue blood; I think his pedigree offers a lot to breeders out there. I’d like to see Love the Chase bred back to Uncle Mo next round.[/QUOTE]

I agree with all of this, I think Love The Chase is the test run. Regardless of what happens with her I think they are looking for a reason to stop him. Without a stellar pedigree it has to be hard to stop when he is cashing giant checks every start. If he got a hangnail, he is gone but so far he isn’t giving them any reason.

[smoofox]

[QUOTE=skydy;8821253]
There are so many inaccuracies in the above post that it’s unreal.

Why are you so worked up about this horse’s connections?

Your characterization of the syndicate owners of horses and/or stallion shares as “people with their hand in the cookie jar” is bizarre.

Mares don’t necessarily “fall off the radar once overseas”. There are many “overseas” farms that feature U.S. bred mares that were bought at auction (and their foals) on their websites. They may fall off your radar, but for people who are truly interested it isn’t hard to look them up. You have as good a chance at finding photos of them as you do of finding public photos of mares bought by U.S. buyers.

You are only concerned about the horse crossing the Atlantic? What about the Pacific?

How do you know what it is that Martin owns? 10% of what? Stallion shares when the horse retires to stud? Until then he may retain majority ownership in the horse.
I mean this sincerely, do you actually know what you are talking about? I don’t get that impression…[/QUOTE]

Well said. A lot/most of snaffle1987’s talking points are the same phrases constantly pushed by a certain Chromie Facebook page and even a certain ex-owner who delighted in her FB attacks on the Martins - but had to delete FB pages when Taylor Made bought out Coburns’ share. “Hands in the cookie jar” has been repeated ad nauseum by overwrought Chromies who can tell by Chrome’s eyes that he is sad and asking his best fans to help him.

There are a few knowledgable breeding/racing fans who try to explain how things work to the zealots - but they rarely acknowledge any facts/common sense.

Suffice to say that poor Chrome has been worked to death, run into the ground etc. They know better.

[skydy]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Love the Chase does sell to a farm outside of the U.S.

It won’t be the first time that breeders in Japan and China find a bloodline more appealing than U.S. breeders do and the Tapit foal is icing on the cake.

It will be interesting to see who buys her and what they think she is worth.

I wonder if she would cross well with King Kamehameha (too much Mr.Prospector and Northern Dancer?) or Deep Impact.

Also about curious about stallions from the Sadlers Wells sire line.

Viney, do you see a good match with any of the European or Asian based stallions?