Morven 4*-L had what, 12? In 2018 FHI 3*(before advanced became 4*)-L had 38, 2019 FHI 4*-L had 47. If my quick search is correct. It seems US calendar coordinators need to look more at what US riders need. These low numbers are not sustainable. Maryland’s terrain certainly lends itself to an attractive picture of a top of the line international event. But the reality is a “Pau” like 5* in Florida would have probably drawn more entries.
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Probably but the US should have something comparable to burghley or badminton. KY is not on that level. the scheduling of the 5* needs to be reviewed.
But the Americans mostly are not able to do well at Ky. How long before Tami won last year has it been since an American has won? Why do you think the Brits come over? They know they are probably going to win.
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Well…except then any NA riders could not compete the same horse in both US 5* events as MD and KY would be competing against each other for entries.
I don’t think you move Pau based on the weather in one year.
I don’t think this is a problem a quick calendar change can solve. Even UK/Europe entries are down–Badminton historically has a hefty waitlist–this year it was very short and all riders made it off. I think this is a horsepower problem. I would be really interested to see changes at the 3* level, There’s various reasons why entries might be low in the last two years (Covid fallout still, changes in qualification requirements, bad luck, olympics, etc.). If there’s a healthy pipeline still that’s a different outlook than if 3* entries drop off too.
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could it just be that many owners think that 5* is just too risky for the horse? I mean there’s not a lot of $ in eventing so maybe that has nothing to do with it, but I don’t’ think there are less horses who can do the 5* level (seems like while they don’t grow on trees there wouldn’t be less now) but maybe the owners who would have campaigned and spent the $ on a 5* career just aren’t there?
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If you put Maryland and Kentucky 3ish weeks apart then I think there would be no issues with competing for entries. I think that the issue will always be there that the USA is out of the way in the eventing world. A 5* rider could fill their calendar without ever leaving Europe… you can’t say the same about the USA. So there needs to be a good reason to come (prize money) and make it easy to come (only having to fly to the USA once). At least that’s my take on it 
Personally I think upper level eventing is going to die out unless there are some major changes made. The cost to get a horse to the 5* level is enormous. The time to get a horse to that level is second only the UL dressage. The money won is low comparatively to other disciplines. Why compete at the 4* or 5* level? Why not compete in show jumping where the money is better and you could easily never need to leave the USA and still have your pick of shows? Or dressage, where the money has also gotten better? That’s the question that, IMO, needs to be addressed. How do we draw riders to keep riding at the upper levels? I don’t think lower level eventing has anything to worry about because the sport is fun. But fun only goes so far.
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I’m not sure how this can be true. The riders would certainly be able to do both Maryland and Kentucky if they were 3 weeks apart, and any horses who had very early problems could redirect, but to be clear a 5* event horse would never be asked to make those efforts in such quick succession. It’s just not an appropriate level of demand for their bodies.
It was a very big deal the year La Biosthetique Sam (considered by many to be the greatest event horse of all time) completed Kentucky, Luhmuhlen, and Burghley in one year. Those events were still separated by a minimum of two months (57 days to be exact) and the horse did not run a single other event that year, preparatory or otherwise, besides a short one several levels lower before Kentucky. To the best of my knowledge no other horse has repeated the feat.
Most 5* riders do not have enough horses at the level that they can run one string at one event and another at the second, so having those two events close together would very much compete for entries instead of allowing the same combinations to run both - one in the spring, one in the fall - which was the original argument for a second American event at the level.
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It’s the cost. I know at least a dozen people who did Kentucky in the 90s and early 2000s they all just had a horse and trained it and competed it and scrimped and saved and took time off work and drove across the country in their little two horse or slant load with some friends and did it. Did they fly to Europe and do Badminton? No. They didn’t get rich either. No-one formed a syndicate, no-one paid $100k for their horse, no-one had full training or $20k worth of saddles or $1k month in vet bills or whatever the hell is making it so expensive these days. There used to be tons and tons of riders in their 20s-40s happily chasing that dream, many part time. And now there are almost none.
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I don’t think so. I personally don’t know any riders who are competing/or have and are trying to again, compete Intermediate through Advanced that if given the opportunity wouldn’t WANT to ride at 5*****. The “want to” is certainly there. It’s not a matter of if we had the horse qualified, able, and finances allowed the riders wouln’t WANT to go 5*****.
I think it’s just the execution in our own ability.That ability includes financial, able bodied horses, and (I’ll loop myself in to not offend anyone) skill. Trust me, I’m trying and it may take another decade, but if you offered up the horse, the finances, and enough instruction I feel like you’d have a very, very long line I’d probably be scratching my way to try to be first in line.
It struck me a few weeks ago some late teen riders were walking a course with our group, and in the most serious of conversations they were discussing that once your horse was going a certain level you were able to get sponsors and owners, like it was easy to do. (And maybe thats a little issue, in that young riders are getting so blind-sided once on their own, the own mental hump of trying to work this habit out after a few failed attempts is too much.)
There are plenty of great pairs that have an exemplary resume coming up the levels unable to find owners. We have one-time 5***** riders, who after their junior horse retires can’t make it back up again, not for lack of trying. It’s just so expensive to bring these horses along. (Not to mention if you did have one-time sucess are likely an uncategorized rider, so the single horse requires double the time to get the MERs)
And I think culturally, we don’t have many benefactors offering to buy shares of these horses. Those riders able to secure owners, that’s a skill. That skill doesn’t necessarily correlate 1 for 1 with good riding. There is a skill to be able to seek out owners or ways to fund the habit by being a good salesman, communicating with the right circle of people, providing an experience the person who can support you would enjoy.
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A while back I was listening to an UL rider speak about his then 5 star horse. He said people kept asking if she was injured because he hadn’t been competing her. He said she was completely fine, there was just no money to compete her at the moment. He was lamenting that he had a proven 5 star horse at the peak of her career sitting around doing nothing because it was too expensive to keep competing. 
At that time he wasn’t sure if finances would improve or they would have to sell her. I’m not sure what happened.
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The want is definitely there, there just aren’t as many 5* horses in NA. Europe has the benefit of pulling horses from how many countries?? A bunch. Over here it’s USA and Canada. Canada has the most 5* riders now I think it ever has actually, not sure what’s happening in the US but numbers seem to be dwindling.
Two big names who aren’t doing 5* currently for example are Doug Payne and Liz Halliday.
Those two alone have taken 2-10 entries away at 5* in NA.
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Yeah I guess I was going more off the assumption that different horses would be going at different events for the same rider. See, this is why I stated how extremely qualified I was to be rearranging the calendar previously. 
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Make it more lucrative?
I bet there is maintenance, a horse running 5* probably needs more maintenance to stay happy than just be-bopping around at home?
Plus trailering, probably XC schooling fees, extra lessons to be competive, costs to trailer out to condition on hills or water treadmills?
I’m guessing whoever is not competing the 5* horse is because the funds aren’t there to be competive, not to not enter? The professional is making more money spending their time riding young horses for owners who pay all the bills then spending their own money to run 5*.
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There are few events at Advanced and 4* I’m some geographic areas. Travel and time off work are huge expenses.
The qualifications are more numerous (need one MER within 12 weeks I believe, that isn’t easy in some parts of the country) and harder to get (dressage score is lowered to 45, time faults on XC can scupper your weekend, etc).
One abscess or lost shoe can mean you now need to wait thru winter, get your within 12 weeks MER, then try again. That’s 6 months of expenses and trying to keep a horse happy, sound, and fit.
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I think it’s more everything around it. Travel; I think to take one horse overseas is like 20k round trip now? Plus you’ve got all the tack and your groom(s), housing costs, board costs, random paperwork costs. Even if you only do the two American 5* travel will add up. You probably need a secretary of some sort to keep everything straight for the trips; maybe that’s you but probably that’s being hired out. To be really competitive you probably need to go south for the winter (unless you’ve based yourself out of somewhere like Aiken) so that’s costly. Medical costs for an 5* horse must be crazy high.
The entry fees etc. have gone up by 30-50 percent in the last ten-fifteen years, but it’s more that everything else has gone up so much, too. I honestly don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford to compete recognized again, and I hate that with Starter and BN recognized divisions now I can’t even do them at a recognized event for fun without paying $250.
I am friends with a 5* rider with an older horse and they told me that they spent close to $25k on vet bills alone on it in a year to get to Kentucky. (Where it went well and finished in the top 25 but wasn’t remotely competitive.) I just don’t know how it can be sustainable for anyone but the Boyds and Phillips and there aren’t enough of them to justify running one 5* let alone two.
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when I rode, 40 years or so ago, it cost maybe 40-50$ to compete at the lower events. I happened to see the entry fees recently, and it was an eyepopping 3-400$, I don’t remember what it was, but it had skyrocketed up. However, my board at a nice barn with a small indoor area and an large outdoor arena was I think about $150 a month. Last year, I was in the area, and I drove up there. They had added a lot of stalls. It looked much shabbier than it was 40 years ago, but I was sad the see the wash rack filled with junk. I found someone cleaning stalls and I asked her what the board was now. It was $800 a month.
Land as you know is hideously expensive, taxes are killing, and keeping the land for eventing is next to impossible. Things are much better than they were 40 years ago, but inflation, and justlife causes costs to rise. We usually have 2 events a year. We have prelim, and there are usually only 4 horses that start, if that. Of course, prelim is the most expensive, takes the most land and more and larger jumps. I don’t know how they make enough to survive.
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That makes some sense - a few years ago, Jimmy Wofford wrote an article and was openly wondering why our most talented riders - who, spoiler alert, were NOT Boyd and Phillip - weren’t getting the upper level rides. He was borderline angry about it, and I don’t blame him. It seems like if you’re a rider who can “put on a good show,” owners will flock and throw horses at you. (That, or you have parents who buy all your horses for you. 
)
The others have to scrape by despite having vastly more talent and have taken not-so-easy horses to the very top level still can’t seem to catch a break.
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We went for quite a while where people would say, regarding team selection, “phillp, boyd because they have a string and they can get anything around XC”. So if you were a would be owner and wanted a horse to go to the Olympics or WEG, who would you put it with? So that talented young rider got excluded because they only had one horse.
I have friends that have horses that they are part of syndicates. They are going with riders that are pretty much a guarantee that will be on that short list.
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