Maryland 5*

[leighbo009]

I bet there is maintenance, a horse running 5* probably needs more maintenance to stay happy than just be-bopping around at home?

Plus trailering, probably XC schooling fees, extra lessons to be competive, costs to trailer out to condition on hills or water treadmills?
I’m guessing whoever is not competing the 5* horse is because the funds aren’t there to be competive, not to not enter? The professional is making more money spending their time riding young horses for owners who pay all the bills then spending their own money to run 5*.

[Blugal]

There are few events at Advanced and 4* I’m some geographic areas. Travel and time off work are huge expenses.

The qualifications are more numerous (need one MER within 12 weeks I believe, that isn’t easy in some parts of the country) and harder to get (dressage score is lowered to 45, time faults on XC can scupper your weekend, etc).

One abscess or lost shoe can mean you now need to wait thru winter, get your within 12 weeks MER, then try again. That’s 6 months of expenses and trying to keep a horse happy, sound, and fit.

[StormyDay]

@Amberley

How costly is it to compete at that level these days? It used to be entry fee + stabling fee + organization fees and that was about it. Are the entry fees that high now?

I think it’s more everything around it. Travel; I think to take one horse overseas is like 20k round trip now? Plus you’ve got all the tack and your groom(s), housing costs, board costs, random paperwork costs. Even if you only do the two American 5* travel will add up. You probably need a secretary of some sort to keep everything straight for the trips; maybe that’s you but probably that’s being hired out. To be really competitive you probably need to go south for the winter (unless you’ve based yourself out of somewhere like Aiken) so that’s costly. Medical costs for an 5* horse must be crazy high.

[Highflyer1]

The entry fees etc. have gone up by 30-50 percent in the last ten-fifteen years, but it’s more that everything else has gone up so much, too. I honestly don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford to compete recognized again, and I hate that with Starter and BN recognized divisions now I can’t even do them at a recognized event for fun without paying $250.

I am friends with a 5* rider with an older horse and they told me that they spent close to $25k on vet bills alone on it in a year to get to Kentucky. (Where it went well and finished in the top 25 but wasn’t remotely competitive.) I just don’t know how it can be sustainable for anyone but the Boyds and Phillips and there aren’t enough of them to justify running one 5* let alone two.

[Larksmom]

when I rode, 40 years or so ago, it cost maybe 40-50$ to compete at the lower events. I happened to see the entry fees recently, and it was an eyepopping 3-400$, I don’t remember what it was, but it had skyrocketed up. However, my board at a nice barn with a small indoor area and an large outdoor arena was I think about $150 a month. Last year, I was in the area, and I drove up there. They had added a lot of stalls. It looked much shabbier than it was 40 years ago, but I was sad the see the wash rack filled with junk. I found someone cleaning stalls and I asked her what the board was now. It was $800 a month.

Land as you know is hideously expensive, taxes are killing, and keeping the land for eventing is next to impossible. Things are much better than they were 40 years ago, but inflation, and justlife causes costs to rise. We usually have 2 events a year. We have prelim, and there are usually only 4 horses that start, if that. Of course, prelim is the most expensive, takes the most land and more and larger jumps. I don’t know how they make enough to survive.

[FrittSkritt]

@AskMyAccountant.17

Those riders able to secure owners, that’s a skill. That skill doesn’t necessarily correlate 1 for 1 with good riding. There is a skill to be able to seek out owners or ways to fund the habit by being a good salesman, communicating with the right circle of people, providing an experience the person who can support you would enjoy.

That makes some sense - a few years ago, Jimmy Wofford wrote an article and was openly wondering why our most talented riders - who, spoiler alert, were NOT Boyd and Phillip - weren’t getting the upper level rides. He was borderline angry about it, and I don’t blame him. It seems like if you’re a rider who can “put on a good show,” owners will flock and throw horses at you. (That, or you have parents who buy all your horses for you. )

The others have to scrape by despite having vastly more talent and have taken not-so-easy horses to the very top level still can’t seem to catch a break.

[FitToBeTied]

@FrittSkritt

That makes some sense - a few years ago, Jimmy Wofford wrote an article and was openly wondering why our most talented riders - who, spoiler alert, were NOT Boyd and Phillip - weren’t getting the upper level rides.

We went for quite a while where people would say, regarding team selection, “phillp, boyd because they have a string and they can get anything around XC”. So if you were a would be owner and wanted a horse to go to the Olympics or WEG, who would you put it with? So that talented young rider got excluded because they only had one horse.

I have friends that have horses that they are part of syndicates. They are going with riders that are pretty much a guarantee that will be on that short list.

[FrittSkritt]

He wasn’t talking about young riders, rather, riders who had been on teams and successful at the upper levels but didn’t have consistent strings of horses.

[FitToBeTied]

@FrittSkritt

He wasn’t talking about young riders, rather, riders who had been on teams and successful at the upper levels but didn’t have consistent strings of horses.

But that usually has been young riders. There are many like Allison Springer, Maya Black, etc. that got there with one horse and have not returned. I’ve always said that I hate the direct substitution idea on teams. Take Paris. Boyd and Will took four horses. We finished well down the list. Imagine the exposure for some younger riders if we had sent two of them instead of doing direct substitution. It might have helped propel some younger riders up the list.

[Larksmom]

your point is valid, but consider it was the least experienced rider that had the stop.

[FitToBeTied]

@Larksmom

your point is valid, but consider it was the least experienced rider that had the stop.

Not like we were winning medals before. We always talk about developing depth and then do things that actually retard the development.

[albytb]

This is a great point. It always surprises me how “poorly” we perform at the Olympics and this could very well be a reason why. I do understand that the logistics of eventing at least seem to be a little more reasonable over in Europe but still

[Larksmom]

but if I remember correctly, we would have medaled without the stop. The Pam Am games are for bringing up new talent-when we have already got a pass to the Olympics. Then you send the best to the Olympics. It is very difficult to win going up against the onslaught of the Brits, Germans and Kiwis. And I believe we DID medal at the World championships in Italy.

[AskMyAccountant.17]

@FitToBeTied

ave not returned. I’ve always said that I hate the direct substitution idea on teams. Take Paris. Boyd and Will took four horses. We finished well down the list. Imagine the exposure for some younger riders if we had sent two of them instead of doing direct substitution. It might have helped propel some younger riders up

I will add, I’m a huge Allison fan. From horsemanship, training, I think she’s one of the best trainers we have. While she may not have frequented a team place, she has been one to utilize syndicates very well. I wish she would be asked to share her secrets. Her owners encompass friends from hometowns, breeders, etc. I have no idea the ins and outs of the financial situation. But, I do know every horse competing is owned by a syndicate. So I think she encompasses not only skill/ability but also has the ability to sell the dream of a syndicate in a long-term way. Maybe this took time. She would be a great person to pick her brain.

[trakehners]

@Highflyer1

I am friends with a 5* rider with an older horse and they told me that they spent close to $25k on vet bills alone on it in a year to get to Kentucky. (Where it went well and finished in the top 25 but wasn’t remotely competitive.) I just don’t know how it can be sustainable for anyone but the Boyds and Phillips and there aren’t enough of them to justify running one 5* let alone two.

I was talking to my trainer about this today and she said she spent roughly a quarter of a million dollars in total getting her horse (which she started and brought up all the levels herself) to Kentucky almost ten years ago. She has no owners or sponsors, just a bunch of us in the barn who are more than happy to buy “team” gear to help offset some entry fees or to do the work at home when she’s away.

She’s vowed that she isn’t done yet and she’ll be back at the top but there’s no chance that she’ll ever have a full string of horses running constantly unless my very eccentric childless aunt leaves me an excessive amount of money in the next ten years and I can afford to be the owner for her (which I would gladly do, but those odds aren’t high).

[Jealoushe]

I have to say after just spending the entire day today being jump crew for Boyd at a clinic, it’s clear to me why he has so many owners. He’s a very impressive, and charming guy. Not to mention kind and inspiring to a level I wouldn’t have thought. Extremely impressed today and it’s easy to see why people want him to work with their horses.

[FrittSkritt]

Yep, and there are others who have had quite a few top horses yet still struggle to maintain their foothold in the team ladder. I think there’s still a bit of misogyny out there despite this being a sport that has more female than male riders…

[FrittSkritt]

Yep, but he’s only one guy. At some point I think owners need to realize that oversaturating one rider with all the horses isn’t going to improve our team performance, especially when we have many many other riders who have been successful abroad, ridden on teams, don’t have the backing of Mrs. Mars, and we only sporadically see them at the top level when they have one, maybe two horses when the boys have strings 5+ deep and a waiting list. I’m talking Lynn S, Kim (especially Kim, I don’t think people realize how good she is), Ariel, Sharon W, etc. etc.

[punchy]

Yea I’d like to see some other riders get some already-UL horses purchased from others who start them. That is the key to success I think at this level—you can’t keep bringing up all your horses from scratch. It takes too long, costs too much, and many don’t pan out.

[EventerAJ]

I would argue that purchasing already UL horses doesn’t always work either. Shamwari, Mr Medicott, Trading Aces were all supposed to be The Next Big Thing but never achieved expected success.

I think bringing them up from Training or Prelim is a fair compromise if younger is too much risk or takes too long.

Then again I breed mine so I’m used to taking a long time.