Mason or concrete sand for outdoor arena?

[DressageLin]

The contractor is in the final steps of finishing the overhaul of my outdoor dressage arena. I’m so excited! We added french drains and a little slope to the base and built up my low spots. 200 tons of stonedust later, I need to pick a footing. I think the fibers are outside of the budget right now, so I just want a good sand that is not too shifty but that will still drain.

Underfoot booklet seems to recommend mason sand slightly ahead of concrete sand. I have concrete sand in my indoor and it is a touch shifty if it gets even a hair too deep. However, the mason sand seems so fine. Contractor (who has done multiple arenas lately) is saying that he has been adding a small truckload of topsoil to sand footings to give them a bit more binding action, so they ride well from day one.

Any advice?

[Jealoushe]

We used beach sand…in our indoor and outdoor and footing is the nicest footing around imo.

[DressageLin]

Interesting. I am in PA, so have river sand available. However, I was under the impression beach/river sand would be “round” particles and would result in unstable footing. Would love to see a picture of your footing!

[awaywego]

PA too. Make sure you get a sample of whatever sand they are suggesting before they bring it by the truckload. I am really unhappy with the concrete “sand” I had delivered last year

[DressageLin]

Good advice. Would you mind telling me what you don’t like about it – is it shifty?

[awaywego]

It’s not shifty, but it is incredibly dusty and I’m not even convinced that it is sand! I swear it is simply dirty stone dust It looks like dried dirt/mud in hoofprints after it rains now.

[LazyA1]

I find the river sands to be too round and hence shifty underfoot. I used a manufactured sand for my arena, which I like very much. It is more angular. Around here (central Texas) it is called granite sand.

[JB]

Most beach and river sand is very unsuitable for areas

Beach sand is too round, which means there’s less friction which makes for a lot of wasted and stressful effort to move forward.

River sand can be very silty. Not all, but it’s a common trait.

I can’t imagine there’s enough of a difference between masonry and concrete sand to matter so I’d use whatever is cheaper.

YES to the sample! Concrete sand should be pretty uniform, but anyone can call anything “concrete sand” when it’s not.

[Bluey]

Here concrete sand is more coarse and used to mix with cement and gravel to make concrete.
Masonry sand is super fine and used to make mortar for laying bricks.

We have triple washed concrete sand in our indoor arena, but it is a bit too light for outside arenas in our very windy country.
Outside arenas generally have regular topsoil only, not even packed, some with concrete sand mixed in, or straight concrete sand on top of a hard packed base.

OP, go around to fair grounds and event centers with arenas and ask what they use for their outside arenas?
They should know what is best in your region and where to get the material.

[B-burg_Dressage]

We used river sand (cleaned so no silt) and it’s working well. Sturdy when it’s wet and not too shifty when it’s dry. Only put down about 1.5-2 inches though so I’m sure deeper would be worse and unstable. My vet has commented how nice my footing is when doing annual lameness evaluations so no shifty-ness in her opinion either. And two heads is better than one, right?

Creek sand is also used in our area–bigger and rounder pieces that are loose and tend toward pretty dusty.

[dqtastic]

Can you go look at it? Supply can vary so much in areas - historically around these parts I would not have used concrete sand, but a new source came up and a friend used it and loves it…so i’ve brought it in too, and it’s super!

Beach sand here is horrible, round and slippery - i’d not use. In other areas…ehn?

[cavecreek]

Certainly dont use round or river sand (or beach sand) Find a sub-angular particle and varying particle sizes. We used what they refer to as concrete sand and mixed in the Foam Footing additive from Performance Footing. Works great together but with just concrete sand before we felt it to be a bit to hard under foot and compacted too easy

[PaddockWood]

Go see one of the arenas he did and run around on the sand. Best time spent EVER. And yes, run around on the sand. How it feels for you is how it feels for your horse.

And ask them how the sand rides and is their anything they would have done differently?

And yes, you want angular sand so your horse doesn’t slip.

[DressageLin]

I’m the OP and I decided to use concrete sand in my outdoor, and two years later I really like my footing. My concrete sand is fairly coarse, so it has some tiny pebble looking pieces in the sand, but it drains amazingly well. We get a lot of rain, so that was my biggest concern. With that said, in July and August when it’s hot and dry, it is dusty and feels a bit dead. However, I think most sands are that way without added moisture. My husband is building a water tank on smaller trailer that we can use in the couple months it needs some extra water.

However, I did speak to the builder of one of my favorite arenas and it contains a nice masonry sand and it ride beautifully too. I think either can work in an outdoor arena. The key is to not make it too deep.

[Bluey]

@DressageLin

I’m the OP and I decided to use concrete sand in my outdoor, and two years later I really like my footing. My concrete sand is fairly coarse, so it has some tiny pebble looking pieces in the sand, but it drains amazingly well. We get a lot of rain, so that was my biggest concern. With that said, in July and August when it’s hot and dry, it is dusty and feels a bit dead. However, I think most sands are that way without added moisture. My husband is building a water tank on smaller trailer that we can use in the couple months it needs some extra water.

However, I did speak to the builder of one of my favorite arenas and it contains a nice masonry sand and it ride beautifully too. I think either can work in an outdoor arena. The key is to not make it too deep.

Interesting.
I think you will find that with use, your concrete sand will turn into closer to masonry sand as it breaks down from use, ours has and is still fine, as it contains a bit of the coarse material it started out with.

Watering to the right consistency will help greatly, it has for ours.

You are 100% right depth is oh so important with sand, a bit too shallow and the footing becomes a little too fast, can scare young inexperienced horses as their feet go faster than their minds and if too heavy, is hard on their soft tissues.

Finding what depth works best for your horses and activities on your footing and dragging it so it stays there has kept our arena and horses sound and has been working great at all times, listening to our horses when their perform happily.

[EmilyM]

You can mix saw dust to sand and it helps w moisture retention and gives it some bounce/firmness. It’s affordable.

[Bluey]

With sand arenas, is best not to mix any organic materials, they make a sticky smelly mess and slick spots.
That is why most try to keep even horse manure out.
We keep handy manure buckets in carts with a fork at every gate just for that.

[JB]

I definitely wouldn’t add sawdust or any organic material to an arena footing, whether it’s sand or bluestone/screenings.

[EmilyM]

I had a ring professionally installed with c33 concrete sand and saw dust. It breaks
Down after 3-4 years and you can refresh it. It didn’t make it slippery. It kind of acts like
Fiber does in the silica / fiber mixes. It’s actually quite nice. It kept the dust down because it held the dew.

[Live_Wire]

PA is a really tough environment for an outdoor arena. Expect it to never be as perfect as you want it to be unless you’re spending 6 figures and committed to the maintenance.

Everyone has their preferences… Mason sand with a clay add-in makes for a good mix (at least 85% sand) but I don’t like Mason sand alone. Concrete sand (70%) with silica is probably my favorite blend. Coarse concrete sand is my preferred standalone.

If you’re incorporating any type of textile that makes a massive difference.

Less is more. It’s so easy to add more. Removing even a 1/4" is a huge undertaking.