Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[hut-ho78]

[eggbutt]

is there such a person?

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@trubandloki

@CurrentlyHorseless

But we can end our tiresome back and forth. I’ll just cite the judge’s ruling whenever you assert that MB was found not guilty.

Should I cite the Judgement of Acquittal form? I think it is more legally binding than this document you are puffing your chest about. Or are you just ignoring that?

I am aware and have never disputed that NGRI is an acquittal. It’s an acquittal based on the “not criminally responsible for his conduct due to insanity” part of the NGRI verdict.

@Knights_Mom has asserted that the judge is “wrong”, just like she has asserted Hut-Ho and I’ve been wrong on this. That’s what I’m puffing my chest about.

I have not heard back from @Ekat and @lazaret on whether they are still sure the issue of whether Barisone shot her will be relitigated, given what the judge has stipulated as the background of the civil case. .

I continue to assert that you and the judge are wrong as Guilty but Insane is not allowed or no longer allowed in NJ.

We all know what the verdict was. Well most of us do.

I am honored to be deemed by you to be wrong in the company of Hut-Ho and Judge Sceusi.

Then, my day is made.

[eggbutt]

@Warmblood1

There is a big difference is paying a large amount of money to board and get private lessons and being a successful international level rider.

Without a doubt, there are going to be some BOs that will take her money and some trainers that will give her lessons. But she will still be severely limited on BNTs who will be willing to take her as a client. MB had many connections in dressage and most are in favor of and sympathetic to MB. What LK did to MB is of pretty much every professional equestrian’s nightmares. Most people are not going to risk their own hard earned reputation on LK and that is why she will constantly be fighting an uphill battle.

She is going to be hard pressed to get sponsors. Hard pressed to find breeders who want her to promote, ride and represent their horses. Hard pressed to develop relationships with trainers who have influence in competition. She will be able to find some people to take her money but her options in dressage have become severely limited IMO.

Unless she goes to Europe, keeps her mouth shut and develops a strong work ethic.

On the other hand, perhaps she is content with her status quo and will live the rest of her life glorifying all that has happened to her…professional victim and all that.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@OntheFnce

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@trubandloki

@CurrentlyHorseless

But we can end our tiresome back and forth. I’ll just cite the judge’s ruling whenever you assert that MB was found not guilty.

Should I cite the Judgement of Acquittal form? I think it is more legally binding than this document you are puffing your chest about. Or are you just ignoring that?

I am aware and have never disputed that NGRI is an acquittal. It’s an acquittal based on the “not criminally responsible for his conduct due to insanity” part of the NGRI verdict.

@Knights_Mom has asserted that the judge is “wrong”, just like she has asserted Hut-Ho and I’ve been wrong on this. That’s what I’m puffing my chest about.

I have not heard back from @Ekat and @lazaret on whether they are still sure the issue of whether Barisone shot her will be relitigated, given what the judge has stipulated as the background of the civil case. .

I continue to assert that you and the judge are wrong as Guilty but Insane is not allowed or no longer allowed in NJ.

We all know what the verdict was. Well most of us do.

Someone either needs to get a horse and ride or maybe take the LSAT and go to law school. Although, based on their skill set, the LSAT may be a bit of a challenge.

Who? Judge Sceusi? I’m pretty sure he already has a law degree.

[jvanrens]

@Christa_P

Just curious in terms of money - who officially owns her horses?

Someone would need to see the bill of sale to know that. Registration is not proof of ownership.

[Knights_Mom]

So many people are going to plotz the day MB is released!

[CanteringCarrot]

@Warmblood1

I’d really love to know more about the status of any inheritance, etc. Just from a legal perspective and what would be protected and what wouldn’t. From what I understand, not every trust is untouchable.

I’m not sure if LK has ever earned her own way in life or if she’s just been given money. If she does owe MB money and her trust (if that is indeed what she has) is protected, then she is still going to have to keep assets out of her name and perform 47D chess for any financial decisions for a very long time. Not the way I’d want to live.

As far as daddio - just looking at real estate assets that are very easy to check online - I don’t believe JK or KK are of unlimited means either. I think this suit is draining them financially. JK comes across as too angry, bitter and resentful to be just concerned about golf. I also think he would have hired a better lawyer than Nagel if he had more personal resources.

Agreed.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I don’t think they are well off either. Either the Ks are funding LK out of their retirement thinking that will keep her out of deep doodo, or she has some kind of trust fund. Either way, it can’t last forever.

[Knights_Mom]

@Ambitious_Kate

I don’t think they are well off either. Either the Ks are funding LK out of their retirement thinking that will keep her out of deep doodo, or she has some kind of trust fund. Either way, it can’t last forever.

I think they are well off but not very very well off. Like $5mil net worth well off. Not $500 mil well off.

[MHM]

@Einhorn

if she doesn’t pay timely, that could give her a worse reputation than this case does.

Oh, I don’t know about that.

The horse world is full of bad payers. That is not terribly unusual.

This case is in an entirely different category.

[MHM]

I guess it depends on your definition of “many people.”

[Warmblood1]

@eggbutt

@Warmblood1

There is a big difference is paying a large amount of money to board and get private lessons and being a successful international level rider.

Without a doubt, there are going to be some BOs that will take her money and some trainers that will give her lessons. But she will still be severely limited on BNTs who will be willing to take her as a client. MB had many connections in dressage and most are in favor of and sympathetic to MB. What LK did to MB is of pretty much every professional equestrian’s nightmares. Most people are not going to risk their own hard earned reputation on LK and that is why she will constantly be fighting an uphill battle.

She is going to be hard pressed to get sponsors. Hard pressed to find breeders who want her to promote, ride and represent their horses. Hard pressed to develop relationships with trainers who have influence in competition. She will be able to find some people to take her money but her options in dressage have become severely limited IMO.

Unless she goes to Europe, keeps her mouth shut and develops a strong work ethic.

On the other hand, perhaps she is content with her status quo and will live the rest of her life glorifying all that has happened to her…professional victim and all that.

I’ve thought about that, too. Her reputation may not follow her in Europe but she will be against some seriously talented and hardworking competitors and some no nonsense trainers who don’t have time for flakey no shows. Princess won’t be catered to and to succeed she would have to quickly develop some skill sets she doesn’t currently have - an incredible work ethic and reliability being two of them.

@MHM

@Einhorn

if she doesn’t pay timely, that could give her a worse reputation than this case does.

Oh, I don’t know about that.

The horse world is full of bad payers. That is not terribly unusual.

This case is in an entirely different category.

Agree with you there. But a lot of the bad players are well established professionals who do have success as a rider and an already established loyal following. Not many amateurs have a huge reputation like LK. In fact, I don’t know any outside of Nicky P.

[DownYonder]

@Warmblood1

I don’t believe JK or KK are of unlimited means either. I think this suit is draining them financially. JK comes across as too angry, bitter and resentful to be just concerned about golf.

And that may explain their determination to get some kind of monetary recompense from MB and/or SGF so they can pay LK’s medical bills and legal expenses.

Also, if she did not have a healthcare policy, her medical expenses could be astronomical. Well, they would be in the stratosphere even if she had health insurance but if she didn’t - wow. I can’t imagine how much they might be.

[Knights_Mom]

I dare say that the illegal recordings and midnight barn trespassing would be HUGE no no.

I’d padlock my barn. Police be damned. They could haul me off to jail, I’d be out in a day. A barn can change their procedures any time they want.

[SpicyPRE]

@CanteringCarrot

I mean really, at this point, what has she got to lose?

That is how a rational person thinks thru things. I suspect that LK is more focused on proving her narrative and consequently (in her mind) gaining acceptance and validation.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Both Sceusi and his clerks are doubtless perfectly aware of the acquittal form and also understand that there is no inconsistency between the NGRI acquittal and what Sceusi stipulated regarding the plaintiff being shot by MB.

You really don’t understand after all this time that NGRI (note the NG stands for NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity) and guilty, but not criminally responsible are two different verdicts? And that guilty, but not criminally responsible is not an option in NJ and therefore cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, have been the verdict in MB’s case?

The judge’s statement in the background that Michael was found guilty but not criminally responsible is an error. Just like his statement that LK was shot at point blank range is an error. We know both statements are factually untrue.

I’m sure you are going to say that the judge didn’t mean “guilty but not criminally responsible” even though he said “guilty but not criminally responsible.” You will then claim to know what he actually meant was whatever your stock line is about the jury finding Michael guilty of the shooting but then not guilty of a crime because of insanity.

But that’s not what the background says. It says the verdict on the attempt murder charge was guilty but not criminally responsible. That’s what is written; that’s what was meant. And that is factually incorrect.

We know these documents get written up in haste by law clerks - often graduates fresh out of law school. In this case clearly the information used for the background was taken from the plaintiff’s filing which was made before the criminal case went to trial. And clearly it was not updated with the correct information from that trial - such as the actual verdict, or the fact that GSR testing ruled out a point blank shooting, or the fact Michael was found not guilty of firing towards RG. So many mistakes in such a short document! Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

At least most of us see that clearly. You - who hilariously described the judge’s wording in this background blurb as a “ruling” upthread - seem to have misplaced your glasses. Your chest puffing is unwarranted, although highly amusing. Thanks for the giggle.

[Warmblood1]

@SpicyPRE

@CanteringCarrot

I mean really, at this point, what has she got to lose?

That is how a rational person thinks thru things. I suspect that LK is more focused on proving her narrative and consequently (in her mind) gaining acceptance and validation.

That will never happen.

That is also why I am pretty amused by CH and HH’s posts. So much time and dedication trying to dictate a certain narrative that will do absolutely nothing to change the situation or reputation LK already has.

[BigMama1]

@eggbutt

Certainly not DH! SW is a hard-core MB supporter.

Less of an MB supporter and more of an LK hater.

[SpicyPRE]

Exactly. No matter how many times certain phases are repeated they wont magically become fact.

This is something that has bothered me about CH and HH’s posts - why are certain phases added even at times when they aren’t relevant to the rest of the post? And that they disappeared and reappeared at the same time. So curious.

Yes, I have both on ignore and, yes I am anxiously awaiting that software update.