Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[Knights_Mom]

@CindyB59

Not to mention I said “per horse”. Which would be a minimum of $6,000 when she only had 3 horses. And those prices are Western WA with a good trainer. Not Wellington with Olympic trainers

There is no way on god’s green earth he was clearing much, if any, money on these arrangements. And like you said, that’s only taking the horses into consideration.

It’s logic! I have ONE horse, not in Wellington, training 3x a week not with an Olympic level trainer (but they are wonderful) and it runs a min of $1500. Just 4 horses at that rate is $6000 with no housing.

$5000/month is absurd.

[eggbutt]

Several of us knew beyond a shadow of a doubt who he was within the first three sentences of his first post. Such a smug individual.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@smoofox

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@roseymare

Businesses are not only about daily cash flow.
And you are stuck on this idea that the business was floundering and needed cash. We do not know if that is true. It is an assumption on your part from a couple of texts and phrasing from one witness.

I would think that their would have been witnesses talking about non payment if that really was a problem. Like the hay and feed guys, insurance etc etc.
Someone tried to make it true about the heat in the house but that was proven false by LP receipts. There is simply no prove that there was a serious cash flow problem.

I agree that there is more to a business than monthly cash flow.

I am not asserting that the business was “floundering” and “needed cash.”

Whether the business was barely breaking even, generating hefty positive cash flow every month, or making losses every month on a cash flow basis, it’s basic economics that monthly cash flow is improved as long as marginal revenue exceeds marginal cost.

Jay T was a horse owned by Barisone, occupying a stall and eating hay. If Barisone sold Jay-T to LK for $40,000, with the provision that Barisone would not charge LK for board the horse, the change in ownership does not increase MBs monthly costs at all. In the meantime, he gets a $40,000 lump sum payment.

What? You do know the horse eats, don’t you? Eating costs money.

Do we know it was a lump sum payment?

Horses eat hay.
Feed.
Supplements.
Let’s not forget water.
More food.
Vet. Hopefully no emergencies in the middle of the night on a Saturday - far more expensive.
Farrier.
Insurance.
Power.
Heat as needed.
Property maintenance.
Stall cleaning.

The list is endless…

That’s the point. All those monthly costs are exactly the same for Jay-T whether the horse lives out his retirement owned by Barisone or by LK. If she paid him $40,000 for the horse with the provision he stayed at HH with no additional board paid by LK, she may have reduced the monthly costs by taking over vet and farrier, plus giving MB a lump sum.

[ohnoO]

I come from hunter world, but wouldn’t $40K be equivalent to a year or two of a lease of a schoolmaster where the leasee would pay board and everything else?

[Rubyroo]

@Knights_Mom

Has it been confirmed that MB actually got $40G? My bet is no.

One more time, I am not saying this is what happened.

[MorganSercu]

Insurance.

[erinmeri]

[quote=“Joanne, post:3581, topic:778966, full:true”]

[quote=“hut-ho78, post:3546, topic:778966, full:true”]

@Angela_Freda

@hut-ho78

MHG was not yet in partnership with MB. She did not contribute to his income. She did not pay rent or board for herself or her 8-9 horses. She was not in a position to make decisions about boarders as she had no legal role in the business.
[/quote]

Says who?

3:50

I rewatched the entire video posted (rewound before time-stamped start), and only someone who is either 1) uninvolved with horses entirely, or 2) unfamiliar with trainers, training programs, and BNT-level barns that employ multiple trainers, riders and coaches would misconstrue MHG’s involvement in not only the day-to-day business of both training horses and riders, but in bringing up and competing horses as not contributing financially. It’s just stupidity to state otherwise. She rode, trained, competed and did god knows what else to support the business.

All these activities bring revenue to a horse business. You ride (train) client horses, that’s $$. You teach clients, that’s $$. You bring up horses that go on to sell, that’s $$. You compete and win, that’s not only prize $$, but $$ earned by attracting clients, owners and sponsors.

Anyone saying otherwise is just outing themselves as know-nothings. I don’t care how many horses she had there - or whether their (full or partial owners) were or were not paying board. What she contributed to MB Dressage and Hawthorne Hill’s revenue shouldn’t be in question.

The only quibble I have with her testimony in this video is she implies that someone involved in boarding horses isn’t an amateur. You can be a barn owner and collect revenue from that, and not forfeit your ammy status.

[erinmeri]

Replying to self… I now want to go back and watch other testimony about common spaces, Lauren’s locker, where conversations were held, and the recording devices… because if anything, that video made me realize how vast that club room was. Seems unlikely Lauren’s “locker recorder” could have recorded ANYTHING from the clubhouse or office.

[OntheFnce]

@ohnoO

I come from hunter world, but wouldn’t $40K be equivalent to a year or two of a lease of a schoolmaster where the leasee would pay board and everything else?

That would depend on the value of the horse. Schoolmasters could be well into the low to mid 6 figures - particularly with Hunters and Big Eq horses. Somehow, I think this deal that LK claims seems a little suspect.

[lazaret]

It doesn’t matter what she said or doesn’t say because there’s no such thing as a “legal role in the business” outside of being an owner or key employee, which are legal definitions.

She rode, trained, competed and did god knows what else to support the business.
All these activities bring revenue to a horse business. You ride (train) client horses, that’s $$. You teach clients, that’s $$. You bring up horses that go on to sell, that’s $$. You compete and win, that’s not only prize $$, but $$ earned by attracting clients, owners and sponsors.

^ this is as much a role in the business as any other.

It would be completely typical for an owner’s romantic partner to be working in or for the business but not be a compensated employee. The endless fixation on MB’s perceived financial troubles and divorce is frankly super weird.

[Sdel]

@erinmeri

Replying to self… I now want to go back and watch other testimony about common spaces, Lauren’s locker, where conversations were held, and the recording devices… because if anything, that video made me realize how vast that club room was. Seems unlikely Lauren’s “locker recorder” could have recorded ANYTHING from the clubhouse or office.

It really makes you wonder why LK wanted in there so badly doesn’t it?

[lazaret]

Dressage schoolmasters are a little different - they don’t lease for the super big bucks unless they are a very competitive FEI Jr/YR or U25 horse. A schoolmaster just to learn the ropes on that would not be really competitive could well be in the 10s a year plus all costs, and maintenance costs on them are often steep after a competitive career.

[erinmeri]

@OntheFnce

@ohnoO

I come from hunter world, but wouldn’t $40K be equivalent to a year or two of a lease of a schoolmaster where the leasee would pay board and everything else?

That would depend on the value of the horse. Schoolmasters could be well into the low to mid 6 figures - particularly with Hunters and Big Eq horses. Somehow, I think this deal that LK claims seems a little suspect.

Are you talking about lease fee only or all inclusive? Currently in the H/J world, lease fees are astronomical and then you have board, training and insurance… not to mention vet and farrier, supplements, feed, and all the other miscellaneous expenses. Unless you find a unicorn, you can’t pay to play for a year lease on a decent H/J horse, much less a schoolmaster, even at 2’6” for 40k annually before showing. I now own my horse, but I when I leased her, it was way more than 40k a year all in… and if I had been allowed to lease her longer than I did, it would have been more in lease fees alone for 2 years.

ETA: I am talking H/J, not dressage.

[Angela_Freda]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not privileged to have had the experience of top level dressage training

Get out more, I’ve worked in several.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I do, however, have experience with the basics of business management, and I understand the concepts of marginal vs average revenue, marginal vs revenue cost, and profits.

I was assuming that the basic laws of economics that apply to all businesses apply to “top level dressage training” businesses.

Its basic math.
Training for one horse is $3-5k
Someone using four stalls and getting training on four or five horses, but paying $5k is a loss of $5k x three or four.
.

[Jenerationx]

Does anyone remember LK going off about MB getting a large insurance check for the property and owing RG a bunch of money? I can’t seem to find that.

[erinmeri]

@lazaret

It doesn’t matter what she said or doesn’t say because there’s no such thing as a “legal role in the business” outside of being an owner or key employee, which are legal definitions.

She rode, trained, competed and did god knows what else to support the business.
All these activities bring revenue to a horse business. You ride (train) client horses, that’s $$. You teach clients, that’s $$. You bring up horses that go on to sell, that’s $$. You compete and win, that’s not only prize $$, but $$ earned by attracting clients, owners and sponsors.

^ this is as much a role in the business as any other.

It would be completely typical for an owner’s romantic partner to be working in or for the business but not be a compensated employee. The endless fixation on MB’s perceived financial troubles and divorce is frankly super weird.

We also don’t know that she WASN’T a compensated employee, do we?

[lazaret]

Well, according to a particular poster, she testified that she was not - however I have not had the time to go back and watch her testimony to determine if that interpretation is accurate.

[erinmeri]

@lazaret

Well, according to a particular poster, she testified that she was not - however I have not had the time to go back and watch her testimony to determine if that interpretation is accurate.

Hmmm. I didn’t get that from the testimony I just listened to. Let me find the next video!

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Angela_Freda

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not privileged to have had the experience of top level dressage training

Get out more, I’ve worked in several.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I do, however, have experience with the basics of business management, and I understand the concepts of marginal vs average revenue, marginal vs revenue cost, and profits.

I was assuming that the basic laws of economics that apply to all businesses apply to “top level dressage training” businesses.

Its basic math.
Training for one horse is $3-5k
Someone using four stalls and getting training on four or five horses, but paying $5k is a loss of $5k x three or four.
.

When you say training for one horse is $3-$5,000 per month, is that average revenue, marginal revenue, marginal cost or average cost per horse?

[OntheFnce]

@erinmeri

@OntheFnce

@ohnoO

I come from hunter world, but wouldn’t $40K be equivalent to a year or two of a lease of a schoolmaster where the leasee would pay board and everything else?

That would depend on the value of the horse. Schoolmasters could be well into the low to mid 6 figures - particularly with Hunters and Big Eq horses. Somehow, I think this deal that LK claims seems a little suspect.

Are you talking about lease fee only or all inclusive? Currently in the H/J world, lease fees are astronomical and then you have board, training and insurance… not to mention vet and farrier, supplements, feed, and all the other miscellaneous expenses. Unless you find a unicorn, you can’t pay to play for a year lease on a decent H/J horse, much less a schoolmaster, even at 2’6” for 40k annually before showing. I now own my horse, but I when I leased her, it was way more than 40k a year all in… and if I had been allowed to lease her longer than I did, it would have been more in lease fees alone for 2 years.

ETA: I am talking H/J, not dressage.

I know someone who just leased their hunter pony out for WEF for $100k.