Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[3PonyFarm]

Thank you!

[Sdel]

@avjudge

I think it does show where MB/RG were found, near the bottom of the picture, marked “approximate location of suspect.”

That was where they held MB for medical treatment. And LK and RG both testified to MB as having fired the gun while standing by the bush next to the porch. In that drawing, the truck is not near the porch (the one at the far end of the the house). Also, the trajectory drawn for the only known bullet hole was drawn to the front of the truck. But there are still a lot of assumptions and unknowns surrounding that.

Remember, she was supposed to have been shot within a 4 ft range, so, probably not from the front of the truck with the locations shown.
Measurements would have been helpful, but perhaps they would have provided a different picture than what the prosecution wanted to show.

[trubandloki]

@avjudge

The casings appear quite close to the victim (LK) as marked on the sketch, all three between MB’s truck and the house.

By all three do you mean two shell casings and Lauren Kanarek or are you implying there are three shell casings?

[MHM]

Beat me to it by this/much.

[Angela_Freda]

That diagram us interesting.
So, its meant to show where everyone was when Heymer got there?

So was MB trying to get to his truck to flee, his truck is the crooked ine, correct, like the previous time when LK went at him and tried to stop him leaving.

[erinmeri]

@McGurk

I seriously doubt the helicopter would have made sense.

Not disputing two bullet wounds to the chest is a life threatneing emergency, but they were within ~25 minutes of Morris County Medical Center, which is a Level I Trauma Center. I think by the time they got a helicopter in the air, got a landing zone, loaded and got to Morris County, there wouldn’t be much difference in the travel time between the chopper and the ambulance.

Again, not disputing that they were life threatening issues, but if they stopped the bleeding and she had a patent airway on scene she was stable for transport. I don’t recall hearing that her lung collapsed, but I might have that wrong.

There’s a concept in EMS called the golden hour. You have to get an accident victim to the appropriate level of treatment within an hour. Helicopter rides are for people who are going to miss the golden hour, because of long extrications from motor vehicle accidents or being in remote areas. Not for a stabilized patient with multiple trauma centers within driving distance.

I worked at a Level I trauma center ER with a Life Flight helicopter. It was the only one at the time that could accept helicopters from Santa Cruz to SF. And I concur, except where traffic is prohibitory for ground transport. To dispatch, land, fly and land again would likely take longer than an ambulance ride in LK’s case.

[Sdel]

@Angela_Freda

So, its meant to show where everyone was when Heymer got there?

No. The location that MB/RG were found is not shown.

[ekat]

@Angela_Freda

So was MB trying to get to his truck to flee, his truck is the crooked ine, correct, like the previous time when LK went at him and tried to stop him leaving.

MB’s truck is this one:

You can sort of tell by this photo from day 2 testimony. That evidence marker #1 is the empty magazine.

[erinmeri]

@erinmeri

@McGurk

I seriously doubt the helicopter would have made sense.

Not disputing two bullet wounds to the chest is a life threatneing emergency, but they were within ~25 minutes of Morris County Medical Center, which is a Level I Trauma Center. I think by the time they got a helicopter in the air, got a landing zone, loaded and got to Morris County, there wouldn’t be much difference in the travel time between the chopper and the ambulance.

Again, not disputing that they were life threatening issues, but if they stopped the bleeding and she had a patent airway on scene she was stable for transport. I don’t recall hearing that her lung collapsed, but I might have that wrong.

There’s a concept in EMS called the golden hour. You have to get an accident victim to the appropriate level of treatment within an hour. Helicopter rides are for people who are going to miss the golden hour, because of long extrications from motor vehicle accidents or being in remote areas. Not for a stabilized patient with multiple trauma centers within driving distance.

I worked at a Level I trauma center ER with a Life Flight helicopter. It was the only one at the time that could accept helicopters from Santa Cruz to SF. And I concur, except where traffic is prohibitory for ground transport. To dispatch, land, fly and land again would likely take longer than an ambulance ride in LK’s case.

Replying to self, it’s actually about a 40 minute drive, although I am sure an ambulance could get there faster.

[Maria]

It was testified to that RG and MB were on the porch when RG jumped on MB’s back put him in a cloak hold. LK may have been reaching for MB’s arm to keep him from shooting again and they fell to the ground from there.

Paraphrasing, as I don’t feel like going back and listening

[McGurk]

I was assuming middle of the day, running lights and sirens.

[Sdel]

Here is another photo that shows casing #1. It is evidence marker 2. It gives you an idea of how far away from the porch/bush it was.

[MHM]

@erinmeri

Replying to self, it’s actually about a 40 minute drive, although I am sure an ambulance could get there faster.

I would imagine another factor would be how close they can land the helicopter. I know that in Wellington, anybody who gets hurt at the horse show and needs a helicopter gets loaded into an ambulance, and then driven up to the open field down at the corner by the traffic light and the Tackeria.

Come to think of it, that might also be related to the fact that they probably don’t want to land a helicopter right at the showgrounds, even if they had the room for it. That might result in even more people falling off and needing helicopter rides.

Just out of curiosity, I asked the EMTs at the H/J horse show in Wellington a few years ago how often they sent somebody off in the helicopter, and they said basically every day during the season.

That amazed me. I realize there are a lot of rings at that horse show, but still.

[erinmeri]

@McGurk

I was assuming middle of the day, running lights and sirens.

Fair, but it was raining and it looks like a fair bit of the route (nearly 9 miles) is on West Mill Road (a “winding, country road” according to the below NJ.com article).

Woman shot in chest at Olympian’s equestrian center in Morris County, alleged...

[erinmeri]

@MHM

I would imagine another factor would be how close they can land the helicopter. I know that in Wellington, anybody who gets hurt at the horse show and needs a helicopter gets loaded into an ambulance, and then driven up to the open field down at the corner by the traffic light and the Tackeria.

Just out of curiosity, I asked the EMTs at the H/J horse show in Wellington a few years ago how often they sent somebody off in the helicopter, and they said basically every day during the season.

That amazed me. I realize there are a lot of rings at that horse show, but still.

Don’t tell me such things! Especially after my helmet got one star in the Virginia Tech study! (Seriously, though. That’s horrifying how frequently they send someone off in a helicopter!)

[MHM]

@Maria

It was testified to that RG and MB were on the porch when RG jumped on MB’s back put him in a cloak hold.

So this was when LK had already been shot, according to their story? Even though in a previous version of their story, she said she had to go in the house to get RG after MB showed up?

[MHM]

I mean… on the one hand it is.

On the other hand, they have something like a dozen show rings, and then a schooling ring for just about every show ring. And they go all day long most days.

So that’s a lot of horses and riders on the grounds, at all levels from little kids on ponies to Grand Prix riders. It could also include people who get hurt back in the barn as well. That happens once in a while.

I don’t know what the criteria would be for getting a helicopter ride. I’m guessing any sort of head injury that involves a loss of consciousness, maybe? And probably some other things.

[erinmeri]

Phone won’t rotate, so I can’t quote. I guess I am shocked, because although I have a friend who died riding, and another who was paralyzed, and I have had and have seen some bad falls, I don’t know anyone airlifted. Of course, I know it happens (Kevin Babbington springs to mind), but I didn’t realize it was so frequent. Sorry to derail.

ETA: And oops, didn’t reply directly to you @MHM! Am failing all around today on navigating CoTH from a technical standpoint!

[MHM]

You have to remember that those horse shows in Wellington have been going on for decades, and growing every year. So I think they have a protocol in place for just about every possible situation. I’m sure that includes putting people in a helicopter, even if sometimes they are erring on the side of caution when they do it.

[hut-ho78]

@eggbutt

@hut-ho78

if all you are here for

Please stop this “all you” stuff. Just stop. Address individuals but stop lumping every poster in to your narrative and placing blame for heaven knows what on an entire group.

I’m sorry. I should have said “all y’all.” Oops!