Depending on who is telling the story and when, either inside the door, or on the porch near the door.
There was also one early version where RG was allegedly in the house and saw it happen out a window.
Depending on who is telling the story and when, either inside the door, or on the porch near the door.
There was also one early version where RG was allegedly in the house and saw it happen out a window.
The porch. He said when he was āshot atā his hand was on the door and he dove through it (so it was open when it was shot). LK testified it was 1, 2, turn lift and shoot 3.
The link is to an advertisement for egress windows with parts of the code pasted in there. There are parts not pasted in there.
One of the things that confuses me is you have said egress windows are because of Hurricane Sandy, but I think that is not the case, at least the evidence says otherwise. But heck, what do I know. Though I did actually go read the code on this.
The individual room egress has an exception for a fully sprinklered building. Having building sprinklers is not going to help you in a flood, so likely egress is for the reason that it has always been for, exiting in case of fire.
There was also an exception for existing construction not requiring them.
Do you agree now that there are stairs outside to/from the basement?
Maybe you can give SM some Google research lessons.
You should read the post above and the one below, or watch the trial again, because both the prosecution and the defense agree that is how the scene was.
Wait? Superman who was defending the world ran away and into the house?
That is what the evidence chain of custody is for. It was LE and the prosecutions job to make sure that the phone was not removed from its location prior to documentation. If it was, then they were responsible for documenting the original location, the officer that moved it, and presenting that situation during testimony. Instead, they presented the phone as having been on the table during the incident. That is the evidence on record.
What I find the most interesting is that some posters are screaming about how horrible the house was, but yet Lauren begged to come back to it and then refused to leave it. So clearly it was AOK with Lauren however it was.
Iād take it a red hot minute if I could afford it. I adore old farm houses.
Sdel: hut-ho78: Sdel:When the second officer arrived he testified RG was running around the yard, for minutes, chasing after the dog, behind the gravel pile, (where there is a pond). He wasnāt completely focused on RG at the moment.
The look on the officers face immediately after testifying that RG was partially in the residence so he partially came out of the residenceā¦held for a long minute too.
That was officer Wurtemberg, the second to arrive on scene, who testified that he never took his eyes off of RG and that RG never went all the way into the house, that he leaned in just to put the dog inside the door.
No, he testified that he wasnāt paying close attention to RG, he was focused on what was going on with LK and MB.
Late to this party, busy work day and all. But he testified that when he arrived there was a man chasing a small dog aroundā¦so who knows? He also sounded like he was too busy to be keeping an eye on superman for the first few minutes getting the go-bag etc.
At 12:21 during cross examination he is asked by the defense if he lost sight of RG at any time and he said āno, I did not.ā
Last I checked making illegal recordings is not overly lawful eitherā¦
But some how you manage to justify those as being OK.Do you at least admit now that there are stairs out of the basement even though you have insisted every way you can that there are not stairs out of the basement?
I agree that making illegal recordings is unlawful. What I do not agree with is the assumption that there were illegal recordings made. There may be. There may be legal recordings. That has yet to be determined.
jvanrens: Sdel: hut-ho78: Sdel:When the second officer arrived he testified RG was running around the yard, for minutes, chasing after the dog, behind the gravel pile, (where there is a pond). He wasnāt completely focused on RG at the moment.
The look on the officers face immediately after testifying that RG was partially in the residence so he partially came out of the residenceā¦held for a long minute too.
That was officer Wurtemberg, the second to arrive on scene, who testified that he never took his eyes off of RG and that RG never went all the way into the house, that he leaned in just to put the dog inside the door.
No, he testified that he wasnāt paying close attention to RG, he was focused on what was going on with LK and MB.
Late to this party, busy work day and all. But he testified that when he arrived there was a man chasing a small dog aroundā¦so who knows? He also sounded like he was too busy to be keeping an eye on superman for the first few minutes getting the go-bag etc.
At 12:21 during cross examination he is asked by the defense if he lost sight of RG at any time and he said āno, I did not.ā
https://youtu.be/pyBo2yg0Eow
Listen closer at around 9:50 when he says āthere was a man to my right chasing a small dog aroundā who he identifies as Robert Goodwin. So RG was running around unobserved for a few minutes chasing Rosie before he got there.
Edited to clarify.
Jealoushe:Iām guessing someone grabbed his phone after everything went down and placed it on the table?
Not according to testimony, no one testified to having moved the phone. Actually, it was on the diagram that was stipulated to by both the prosecution and the defense as facts agreed upon. Both sides agreed the location of the phone was an accurate representation of the crime scene, and it wasnāt moved there. One can see that MB was at the table, which was close to the truck.
More to the point, suggesting the phone was moved goes against the testimony of how the crime scene was collected.
Incorrect. Bailey responded as a police officer to an active shooter and was not able to move into crime scene investigator until later. At one point the prosecutor asked a question if the phones could have been moved to keep them dry prior to Bailey marking their location. The answer was yes.
Listen closer at around 9:50 when he says āthere was a man to my right chasing a small dog aroundā who he identifies as Robert Goodwin. So RG was running around unobserved for a few minutes chasing Rosie before he got there.
Yep. He admits he wasnāt focused on what RG was doing beyond noticing he was running around after the dog.
Sdel: Jealoushe:Iām guessing someone grabbed his phone after everything went down and placed it on the table?
Not according to testimony, no one testified to having moved the phone. Actually, it was on the diagram that was stipulated to by both the prosecution and the defense as facts agreed upon. Both sides agreed the location of the phone was an accurate representation of the crime scene, and it wasnāt moved there. One can see that MB was at the table, which was close to the truck.
More to the point, suggesting the phone was moved goes against the testimony of how the crime scene was collected.
Incorrect. Bailey responded as a police officer to an active shooter and was not able to move into crime scene investigator until later. At one point the prosecutor asked a question if the phones could have been moved to keep them dry prior to Bailey marking their location. The answer was yes.
He also testified that it was his job to control all the evidence and interview all the officers on the scene as to what they did/didnāt do/ etc as to handling and processing evidence. If the phone was moved, then he would have interviewed the officer who moved the phone and have taken note of itās original location. If the phone was moved, and no one did/could account for that, then it was police negligence that was admitted to on the stand and it was incorrect of him to misrepresent the situation with the phone during his original testimony.
Instead he presented testimony that the phone was found on the table as photographed.
We are back to crappy forensics on the part of the police.
trubandloki:Last I checked making illegal recordings is not overly lawful eitherā¦
But some how you manage to justify those as being OK.Do you at least admit now that there are stairs out of the basement even though you have insisted every way you can that there are not stairs out of the basement?
I agree that making illegal recordings is unlawful. What I do not agree with is the assumption that there were illegal recordings made. There may be. There may be legal recordings. That has yet to be determined.
Except Lauren admits that they are illegal sometimesā¦
I would assume that she has a better idea of them being illegal than you do.
hut-ho78: trubandloki:Last I checked making illegal recordings is not overly lawful eitherā¦
But some how you manage to justify those as being OK.Do you at least admit now that there are stairs out of the basement even though you have insisted every way you can that there are not stairs out of the basement?
I agree that making illegal recordings is unlawful. What I do not agree with is the assumption that there were illegal recordings made. There may be. There may be legal recordings. That has yet to be determined.
Except Lauren admits that they are illegal sometimesā¦
I would assume that she has a better idea of them being illegal than you do.
Oh right. What LK says. She who must be believed only when she is incriminating herself but not when she says anything else. /s.
trubandloki: hut-ho78:It looks to me like he fired 2 rounds at LK from the bush area (of which they found one), moved towards RG at the house and fired the third (which they found). Glad you posted this.
You do remember that they found Michael NG on all the charges against Robert Guy Goodwin/Jim E Stark/Superman, right?
And the lesser included charge only required them to find that Michael pointed a gun at RGG/JES/Superman and that too was NG.FWIW, there were no āroundsā (i.e. ābulletsā) found at all. The investigators recovered two casings, which proves that at least two rounds were fired, and IIRC, were assumed by LE to be the rounds that hit LK. There was not enough evidence to prove that a third round was fired - the bullet was not found, the casing was not found, and ED testified that he heard only two shots. There was only the testimony of two liars that a third shot had been fired, and the jury made it clear that they did not believe the liars.
Pardon me for my nomenclature. āThe location of the shell casings indicates to me thatā¦ā
At one point the prosecutor asked a question if the phones could have been moved to keep them dry prior to Bailey marking their location. The answer was yes.
He did no such thing. He asked him if that was the location he found them in, yes, if he put plastic bags over them, or placed the item into a plastic bag, to keep them dryā¦which the answer was yes. They looked at phones and then they moved on to LKās clothes. Upon cross the defense confirmed the white phone on the table was Michaelās and then nobody brought up phones on redirect. And no testimony that he interviewed any officer on scene that said they moved them or identify an original position of any phone.
ETA: Defense asked if those phones under the umbrella (LK/RGās) were photographed in the exact location in which they were found. Answer correct. Iāve relistened three times today. No one suggested the phones were not in their original positions.
Knights_Mom: SierraMist: trubandloki:Hey @hut-ho78, the thing with the red arrow is the roofed area over the basement outside access door. The green arrow points to the lattice covering over the tops of the stairs, down to that basement access door. This photo agrees with the drawing that was posted earlier.
Not that access to the basement matters one way or the other, but I just want to make sure that you realize that no one is telling you an untruth about the whole outside access to the basement.
This screen shot is from one of the evidence photos from the trial.
It only matters if you want to understand one reason the FM deemed the basement uninhabitable. NJ code requires each sleeping room to have emergency egress. Not just a general staircase out of the basement. MB had students crammed in the basement in an unsafe environment and was having it rebuilt to include more bedrooms after the water damage. It shows MB cut corners and why he didnāt want a building permit. He was attempting to do the same thing in the barn - building sleeping cubicles in the loft area above the lounge. Not to mention inadequate septic systems/leach fields to handle all those extra people.
R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue opening required.
Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have not less than one operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, an emergency escape and rescue opening shall be required in each sleeping room. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.
R310.6 Alterations Or Repairs Of Existing Basements.
An emergency escape and rescue opening is not required where existing basements undergo alterations or repairs.
Exception: New sleeping rooms created in an existing basement shall be provided with emergency escape and rescue openings in accordance with Section R310.1.
A basement with 2 forms of egress is acceptable. No one expects more.
Until after Hurricane Sandy.
Existing structures are grandfathered in. So depends on when code was changed as opposed to when work was initially done.
BrownDerby:Iām being sarcastic.
I think you are right on the face of what you typed, not your intent. It shows MB is not interested in lawful procedures.
As opposed to the Kanareks?
trubandloki: hut-ho78: trubandloki:Last I checked making illegal recordings is not overly lawful eitherā¦
But some how you manage to justify those as being OK.Do you at least admit now that there are stairs out of the basement even though you have insisted every way you can that there are not stairs out of the basement?
I agree that making illegal recordings is unlawful. What I do not agree with is the assumption that there were illegal recordings made. There may be. There may be legal recordings. That has yet to be determined.
Except Lauren admits that they are illegal sometimesā¦
I would assume that she has a better idea of them being illegal than you do.
Oh right. What LK says. She who must be believed only when she is incriminating herself but not when she says anything else. /s.
hut-ho78: Knights_Mom: SierraMist: trubandloki:Hey @hut-ho78, the thing with the red arrow is the roofed area over the basement outside access door. The green arrow points to the lattice covering over the tops of the stairs, down to that basement access door. This photo agrees with the drawing that was posted earlier.
Not that access to the basement matters one way or the other, but I just want to make sure that you realize that no one is telling you an untruth about the whole outside access to the basement.
This screen shot is from one of the evidence photos from the trial.
It only matters if you want to understand one reason the FM deemed the basement uninhabitable. NJ code requires each sleeping room to have emergency egress. Not just a general staircase out of the basement. MB had students crammed in the basement in an unsafe environment and was having it rebuilt to include more bedrooms after the water damage. It shows MB cut corners and why he didnāt want a building permit. He was attempting to do the same thing in the barn - building sleeping cubicles in the loft area above the lounge. Not to mention inadequate septic systems/leach fields to handle all those extra people.
R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue opening required.
Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have not less than one operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, an emergency escape and rescue opening shall be required in each sleeping room. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.
R310.6 Alterations Or Repairs Of Existing Basements.
An emergency escape and rescue opening is not required where existing basements undergo alterations or repairs.
Exception: New sleeping rooms created in an existing basement shall be provided with emergency escape and rescue openings in accordance with Section R310.1.
A basement with 2 forms of egress is acceptable. No one expects more.
Until after Hurricane Sandy.
Existing structures are grandfathered in. So depends on when code was changed as opposed to when work was initially done.
@Knights_Mom, please read the bolded.