Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@Knights_Mom

Odds are the judge, his law clerk or whomever have not familiarized themselves with the criminal case like we have so they took erroneous statements submitted by quack attorneys like Nagel as gospel.

That’s certainly the way the rulings read.

Also, just because an attorney is an attorney or a judge is a judge doesn’t mean they are familiar with every branch of law.

In every court I’ve worked I very often had to advise or correct attorneys how to do stuff. Like basic stuff.

Attorneys used to working Supreme would call and ask the price for filing a motion. In lower civil mostly all filings are free! But this very basic question I’ve answered 1000 times. (As one example)

The same holds true with judges. A judge versed in one court is not as knowledgeable in another section of law.

[DownYonder]

Can Deininger and Silver request that LK’s deposition be held at an attorney’s office in FL, to help ensure compliance with whatever rules are decided on regarding the presence of other parties or real-time coaching by other parties?

[3PonyFarm]

They could call “The Bull in Your Corner”!

[Knights_Mom]

@DownYonder

Can Deininger and Silver request that LK’s deposition be held at an attorney’s office in FL, to help ensure compliance with whatever rules are decided on regarding the presence of other parties or real-time coaching by other parties?

Yes. If they have some law firm they are willing to work with. But it makes things more expensive because now you have to pay that attorney too.

My own personal deposition I did by zoom first at my house. Then when it went longer and I had the saddle fitter coming I moved to my car. The feed got lousy while I was still in my house so we went off camera to audio only which all parties were fine with. I did the rest of the deposition while driving which to me was exactly like having a conversation in the car with someone.

[eggbutt]

Where are the promised bombshells?

[Angela_Freda]

Exactly.

[Sdel]

So, lawyer types, basically correct me if I’m wrong…

A re-written subpoena will look something like this (with more legally jargon I’m sure):

Provide your texts/emails etc about your discussions with anyone of the players about LK moving to x barn?

Provide your texts/emails etc about your discussions about recordings/recording devices etc

Provide the texts/emails etc about the agreement for LK to live at the farm/the housing arrangement/renovation agreement.

Provide the transcript/recordings used to make x complaint that was sent

Provide the transcript/recording featuring x conversation in x FB post.

Remember, the lawyers probably already have the other half of a lot of this stuff. I’m not sure making Silver/Deininger laser focus their subpoenas is necessarily better in this situation. Also, since the time frames are now court ordered, I’m not sure there will be much room to play games such as refusal of service or response and continue to have the court’s grace.

[Rel6]

My guess is something like:

“Any and all communications between Kirby Kanarek and Jonathan Kanarek from XX date through XX date regarding the allegations in the Complaint.”

“Any and all communications between Kirby Kanarek and Jonathan Kanarek from XX date through XX date regarding ____.”

And then basically just keep inserting topics to make sure you cover all communications remotely relevant. So you might have MB, LK, the farm, the horses names, the court case, and on and on. They might even include one without any topic and just the time range, but my guess is that would be overbroad as well.

On another topic, just want to point out the mention of the relation back doctrine in the decision. Basically MB wanted to add another counter claim and LK opposed. The additional counter claim is time-barred, so it need to relate back to the original claims in order to be added. I’ve seen situations where that has gone through extensive briefing before having amendment allowed, so that is actually a pretty nice win for MB to have the judge fairly perfunctorily allow them to amend without more in-depth briefing on that issue.

[KurPlexed]

This judge comes across as fair and unbiased. That’s appreciated. It would be awful if the tone followed suit with Taylor.

[trubandloki]

@Rel6

On another topic, just want to point out the mention of the relation back doctrine in the decision. Basically MB wanted to add another counter claim and LK opposed. The additional counter claim is time-barred, so it need to relate back to the original claims in order to be added. I’ve seen situations where that has gone through extensive briefing before having amendment allowed, so that is actually a pretty nice win for MB to have the judge fairly perfunctorily allow them to amend without more in-depth briefing on that issue.

Legal folks (sorry to keep bugging you wonderful legal folks), the amended counter claim means what now?

[Unfforgettable]

@CanteringCarrot

*LK has “unlimited means” and often bragged about being up early and riding multiple horses, so I don’t know that she is soo weakened.

Because she always tells the truth.

[Rel6]

It adds another thing MB is alleging against LK. So he is now alleging she also violated NJ’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Control Act. I don’t remember all the original causes of action he alleged in the complaint, but this adds another.

Basically - if before he alleged 2 causes of actions (or legal theories for why she is liable to him), now he is alleging 3.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

Finally, the court has ruled on all the pending motions.

Will continue to update here.

11152022 Rulings on Motions.pdf (596.3 KB)

11152022 Order for Schell to produce forensics .pdf (415.1 KB)

Interesting.

The background stated by the judge in the civil case states that the matter arises out of a criminal case, and the judge summarizes the outcome of the criminal case as having found that LK was shot multiple times at point blank range, with a verdict that Barisone was “found guilty of attempted murder” but “not criminally responsible due to insanity”.

@ekat and @lazaret, since both of you have taken the position that nothing in the criminal trial carries over to the civil case, and insisted that of course Barisone’s defense lawyers would relitigate whether he shot her, can you comment on this?

Will the defense lawyers immediately file motions saying what you’ve been saying: “No, no, no! Nothing in the criminal trial carries over! There is absolutely no evidence that he shot her! The plaintiff must prove that Barisone shot her! We have all sorts of additional evidence that the bad judge in the criminal trial did not allow!”

It was my prediction before and my prediction now that the issue of whether “he shot her” will not be relitigated. Are you still predicting that it will be relitigated?

@Knights_Mom Did you see the judge summarizing the background as Barisone having been found “guilty” of attempted murder, although not criminally responsible due to insanity?

Good news, ladies. I think we can stop the back on forth on that one! The judge has spoken! Whew.

As always, IANAL.

[MHM]

It’s still seems odd to me that MB has to raise the issue of the illegal recordings since the NJ police department did nothing about it.

[Knights_Mom]

@Rel6

It adds another thing MB is alleging against LK. So he is now alleging she also violated NJ’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Control Act. I don’t remember all the original causes of action he alleged in the complaint, but this adds another.

Basically - if before he alleged 2 causes of actions (or legal theories for why she is liable to him), now he is alleging 3.

And it was necessary to do it AFTER she admitted to doing illegal recording in court, under oath, before judge and jury, in sworn testimony.

Before that it would have been assertion under belief alone.

[Sdel]

@lazaret

If they want to pay for it, they can do that. They may well find that expense to be worthwhile, but it’s their decision.

If I were them, I’d pay that expense, expensive as it would be, if it was at all possible. I would want someone there to inspect/provide the computers to prevent tech games that wouldn’t show up on camera.

[Rel6]

Great point!

[erinmeri]

Am I misreading, or am I correct in understanding that if LK had waited to file until July 2021, MB would not have been able to introduce the wiretapping?

[trubandloki]

@Sdel

@lazaret

If they want to pay for it, they can do that. They may well find that expense to be worthwhile, but it’s their decision.

If I were them, I’d pay that expense, expensive as it would be, if it was at all possible. I would want someone there to inspect/provide the computers to prevent tech games that wouldn’t show up on camera.

I think things like this are a good reason to think about adding to the Go Fund Me.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Rel6

It adds another thing MB is alleging against LK. So he is now alleging she also violated NJ’s Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Control Act. I don’t remember all the original causes of action he alleged in the complaint, but this adds another.

Basically - if before he alleged 2 causes of actions (or legal theories for why she is liable to him), now he is alleging 3.

In terms of his defense, it also adds the assertion that he was insane. The original answer was filed before he entered an insanity plea in the criminal trial.