Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[Knights_Mom]

@Rubyroo

Just so I understand this line of thinking: some of you are saying that Michael interrupted the interview between the CPS woman and his girlfriend because for some reason maybe he decided at that very minute that he just had to check the safe for the gun because he thought it might not be there even though he put it there or he thought this has to stop, let me go talk to them so we can come to an agreement.

So he kicked the CPS woman and his girlfriend out of his office, opened the safe and discovered that the gun was not there or decided to take the gun with 2 bullets to protect himself just in case especially with Kujo, and immediately got in his truck and drove down to the house that he thought Lauren had vacated or maybe knew they were there because the CPS lady said she saw people there so who knows who was there. LK was supposed to be gone, so WTF?,

because he thought she stole the gun or not

but probably left it behind in the house after she was forced to leave by whatever authority told her she had to vacate the premises.

Then, when he got to the house that he thought was vacated, he found himself confronted by Lauren brandishing a gun or got jumped and then attacked by a dog with LK basking him in the head with a phone turned weapon,

got into a tussle with her, and somehow by complete accident Lauren ended up with two gunshot wounds to her chest. Is that the theory that is most believed here? That could have happened in at least 4 very possible scenarios

Bolding mine.

[Rubyroo]

@FitzE

The difference you don’t see is that places that are deemed public spaces, even if they are under private ownership, like a mall, are subject to all kinds of regulation that an entirely private space, like a BNT’s farm, is not.

Malls cannot exclude people based on race, for instance. A racist barn owner absolutely can. Malls and walmart parking lots must conform to accessibility requirements under the ADA. An equestrian training facility need not unless the owner personally values access. True public spaces are “defined as space to which people normally have unrestricted access and right of way . In other words, public places and spaces are public because anyone is entitled to be physically present in them.”

That describes zero training facilities any of us know of. As someone posted above, rock on up to any BNT’s facility and have a go at walking about, hiking through the fields, checking out the tack room, petting the horses, hanging out in the lounge, and see how that works out for you.

MB’s barn was not a public space. Period. Guests and service providers and the building staff coming into my flat do not make it any less private as I am legally allowed to exclude them.
There is no analogy between a training barn and a true public space like a walmart parking lot. The very idea is absurd.

Jesus I can’t possibly respond to this post because your reply has nothing to do with my post that you quoted. I was talking about tack rooms and you are accusing me of talking about malls.

Public Service Announcement: Please vote for candidates who will support education at all levels, because the ability to read for comprehension is important for every citizen of the US.

[Sdel]

@Rubyroo

some of you are saying that Michael interrupted the interview between the CPS woman and his girlfriend because for some reason he decided at that very minute that he just had to check the safe for the gun because he thought it might not be there even though he put it there.

The CPS worker wanted to speak to RC. No good reason for a visitor from out of state to be asked to speak to CPS; except MB and RC knew about the gun. It’s not that much of a logical leap that he’d be worried, especially after the barefoot trimmer said to start thinking of LK as able to try to break into things like the cars and plant drugs.

[Rubyroo]

@Angela_Freda

Well when you put it like that… It’s clear you’re not actually trying to understand alternatives.
That’s your prerogative.

If you have another theory, I am absolutely willing to listen. I merely summarized what I have gotten from what I have read here. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to hear corrections from others.

[Scribbler]

Ok. To clear it up. You cannot go around putting recording devices in places that you don’t own. You can put them inside your own rental but you can’t put them in the aisle of a barn. If you want a stall cam or foal cam in a boarding barn, it would have to not capture people out in the aisle.

Depending on the state laws, the owner can install various kinds of security or surveillance equipment. Video surveillance typically doesn’t include audio. Owner can’t install in places like bathrooms.

But a random boarder cannot run around putting up surveillance equipment evrn if the property owner is legally allowed to do so.

[Sdel]

@Rubyroo

@Angela_Freda

Well when you put it like that… It’s clear you’re not actually trying to understand alternatives.
That’s your prerogative.

If you have another theory, I am absolutely willing to listen. I merely summarized what I have gotten from what I have read here. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to hear corrections from others.

Did you even watch the trial? It really seems like you did not.

[Knights_Mom]

@Rubyroo

If you have another theory, I am absolutely willing to listen. I merely summarized what I have gotten from what I have read here. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to hear corrections from others.

There are numerous plausible scenarios and that’s exactly the point: it’s never been proven with EVIDENCE what actually happened.

The closest it got was a defendant with zero memory of the event being in the difficult position to defend himself from a lifetime of incarceration when he cannot aid in his own defense due to mental disease or defect.

[Rubyroo]

@MHM

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think the prevailing theory among many posters is that LK and RG have shown themselves to be completely untruthful many times, including contradicting themselves and each other on the witness stand, and MB has no memory of what happened at the house.

So almost anything could have happened, since the police did not gather any forensic evidence to speak of, and the video that RG mentioned to the first policeman to arrive seems to have mysteriously disappeared.

It’s too bad that the 40-50 policeman on the scene did not think to grab the surveillance cameras at the house, which also mysteriously disappeared by the next day.

So what you are saying is that since you don’t like Lauren and you don’t think Lauren’s side has produced a believable story and you think the police botched the crime scene, you can make up whatever you want to be true in order to make Michael seem completely innocent of anything?

[Knights_Mom]

@Rubyroo

@MHM

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think the prevailing theory among many posters is that LK and RG have shown themselves to be completely untruthful many times, including contradicting themselves and each other on the witness stand, and MB has no memory of what happened at the house.

So almost anything could have happened, since the police did not gather any forensic evidence to speak of, and the video that RG mentioned to the first policeman to arrive seems to have mysteriously disappeared.

It’s too bad that the 40-50 policeman on the scene did not think to grab the surveillance cameras at the house, which also mysteriously disappeared by the next day.

So what you are saying is that since you don’t like Lauren and you don’t think Lauren’s side has produced a believable story and you think the police botched the crime scene, you can make up whatever you want to be true in order to make Michael seem completely innocent of anything?

Wrong.

[Sdel]

@Rubyroo

So what you are saying is that since you don’t like Lauren and you don’t think Lauren’s side has produced a believable story and you think the police botched the crime scene, you can make up whatever you want to be true in order to make Michael seem completely innocent of anything?

So, this confirms you didn’t watch or pay attention to the trial.

[3PonyFarm]

I wish they would have called the farrier to testify who talked to RG that day. I wondered if he expressed any safety concerns to MB.

[Rubyroo]

@Knights_Mom

Bolding mine.

I don’t know how to quote this mess but I will try.

@Rubyroo

or he thought this has to stop, let me go talk to them so we can come to an agreement.

So you are now saying he kicked the women out of his office to get the gun and go to the house to try to come to an agreement? What??

@Rubyroo

or decided to take the gun with 2 bullets to protect himself just in case especially with Kujo ,

So now the gun was there and he took it with him to protect himself from a dog that belonged to a couple that he thought was not on the premises?

@Rubyroo

or maybe knew they were there because the CPS lady said she saw people there so who knows who was there. LK was supposed to be gone, so WTF? ,

So now maybe he DID know Lauren was at the house so he got the gun from the safe and drove to the house to do what?

@Rubyroo

or got jumped and then attacked by a dog with LK basking him in the head with a phone turned weapon ,

You can’t even decide what Michael knew or who was at the house or who had the gun, but now he gets there and is attacked by a dog AND a woman with a phone (but not a gun??)?

Ok then.

[MHM]

@Rubyroo

@MHM

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think the prevailing theory among many posters is that LK and RG have shown themselves to be completely untruthful many times, including contradicting themselves and each other on the witness stand, and MB has no memory of what happened at the house.

So almost anything could have happened, since the police did not gather any forensic evidence to speak of, and the video that RG mentioned to the first policeman to arrive seems to have mysteriously disappeared.

It’s too bad that the 40-50 policeman on the scene did not think to grab the surveillance cameras at the house, which also mysteriously disappeared by the next day.

So what you are saying is that since you don’t like Lauren and you don’t think Lauren’s side has produced a believable story and you think the police botched the crime scene, you can make up whatever you want to be true in order to make Michael seem completely innocent of anything?

Please don’t try to put words in my mouth.

The lack of physical evidence from the crime scene means that there is no proof either way of what happened. Which is why there are multiple different theories that seem plausible.

You can agree or disagree as you like. If you did not actually watch the trial, you might want to do that before you form your own opinion.

[Knights_Mom]

@Rubyroo

@Knights_Mom

Bolding mine.

I don’t know how to quote this mess but I will try.

@Rubyroo

or he thought this has to stop, let me go talk to them so we can come to an agreement.

So you are now saying he kicked the women out of his office to get the gun and go to the house to try to come to an agreement? What??

@Rubyroo

or decided to take the gun with 2 bullets to protect himself just in case especially with Kujo ,

So now the gun was there and he took it with him to protect himself from a dog that belonged to a couple that he thought was not on the premises?

@Rubyroo

or maybe knew they were there because the CPS lady said she saw people there so who knows who was there. LK was supposed to be gone, so WTF? ,

So now maybe he DID know Lauren was at the house so he got the gun from the safe and drove to the house to do what?

@Rubyroo

or got jumped and then attacked by a dog with LK basking him in the head with a phone turned weapon ,

You can’t even decide what Michael knew or who was at the house or who had the gun, but now he gets there and is attacked by a dog AND a woman with a phone (but not a gun??)?

Ok then.

Offering plausible alternatives as police didn’t do proper forensic work. Didn’t even conduct GRT on anyone.

If you can’t understand this concept I’m sure other posters might be willing to explain it.

I am unwilling to because I don’t play that kind of game.

[3PonyFarm]

I think that most of us are trying to piece together a scenario that fits in with what little evidence we do know about.

The number of shots fired from the testimony of the ear witness and what was collected at the scene. Also, the number of times LK was shot.

The trajectory of the one bullet that went through the window. If I recall, the path could have been from ground level to a standing position and still fit into the trajectory path that was testified by the crime scene guy.

The injuries that MB sustained as shown in the photographs.

The location of everyone as testified by the cop who was first on the scene.

I am probably missing a few other things too but that is what I remember from the trial.

[Rubyroo]

@MHM

The lack of physical evidence from the crime scene means that there is no proof either way of what happened. Which is why there are multiple different theories that seem plausible.

But there is physical (and other) evidence from the crime scene. There was a woman with two gunshot wounds to her chest (someone of the three people on the scene had to have shot her), there were two bullet casings (might be wrong terminology since I am not a gun person), there were two people who identified the shooter at the time of the shooting. The person who was identified as the shooter at the crime scene did not deny that he was the shooter.

I find it really hard to believe that if Michael had shown up at the scene of the crime without a gun and with non-confrontational intent (to a house that he apparently thought was vacated, which makes no sense why he would have even rushed there at that time), and he came upon Lauren with a gun and actually ended up wrestling with her where he was trying to get the gun away from her? Why wouldn’t he have retreated from her if she confronted him with a gun pointed at him? What unarmed person attacks and wrestles with someone who is armed with a gun? Why do all of you come up with this ridiculous scenario for a man you don’t even know? It is totally possible to hate everything that Lauren has done while at the same time admitting that Michael is not a god who is going to invite you groupies to his house for a party when he is released from where he is now.

I get that no one here thinks Lauren is even close to being a decent human being (and I agree with that), but I don’t get why most here treat Michael like the next coming of Christ. He let Lauren ruin him, he didn’t have to, and those close to him also let it happen. I don’t buy that Lauren’s father made him let her board with him - how would that even happen?

[MHM]

@Rubyroo

But there is physical (and other) evidence from the crime scene. There was a woman with two gunshot wounds to her chest (someone of the three people on the scene had to have shot her), there were two bullet casings (might be wrong terminology since I am not a gun person), there were two people who identified the shooter at the time of the shooting. The person who was identified as the shooter at the crime scene did not deny that he was the shooter.

Again, did you actually watch the trial?

One of the three people on the scene did shoot her. There was no physical evidence to indicate which one of those three people shot her. Fingerprints, gunshot residue, etc., etc.

The two people who claim MB did shoot her proved themselves to be liars under oath on the witness stand, so they do not have a lot of credibility.

They also both have extremely extensive arrest records for things like assault, which are readily available to view on the New Jersey courts website.

The person who was identified as the shooter by those two people was basically incoherent if not unconscious, according to the policemen and EMTs who dealt with him on the scene, according to the testimony at the trial. So it’s no wonder he did not deny it.

I don’t know any of the parties involved, I’ve just based my own opinion on the evidence. Or lack thereof.

You can have a different opinion. That’s fine.

[FitzE]

Absolutely no need for you to behave so shockingly rudely to me. You are very unpleasant to attempt to have a discussion with and I’d love to hear what your level of education is given your struggle on this thread with very basic concepts.

What a jerk response.

[FitzE]

@Sdel

The CPS worker wanted to speak to RC. No good reason for a visitor from out of state to be asked to speak to CPS; except MB and RC knew about the gun. It’s not that much of a logical leap that he’d be worried, especially after the barefoot trimmer said to start thinking of LK as able to try to break into things like the cars and plant drugs.

This makes complete sense. He may have felt he had to go to the safe at that moment to prove the gun was safely stored.

[MHM]

@FitzE

@Sdel

The CPS worker wanted to speak to RC. No good reason for a visitor from out of state to be asked to speak to CPS; except MB and RC knew about the gun. It’s not that much of a logical leap that he’d be worried, especially after the barefoot trimmer said to start thinking of LK as able to try to break into things like the cars and plant drugs.

This makes complete sense. He may have felt he had to go to the safe at that moment to prove the gun was safely stored.

Yes. Plus there was testimony from multiple witnesses at the trial that he was beside himself by that point in the proceedings, so it might have seemed urgent in his mind.