Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@OntheFnce

And if I’m not mistaken, I’m pretty sure she trained clients.

For sure, she was.

Wasn’t part of LK’s problem that she objected to being trained by MHG instead of MB?

Yes. She wanted MB. Not Justin nor MHG. Just MB.

[MHM]

@OntheFnce

So we clearly know that certain posters did not follow the testimony and missed key points.

I think we already knew that.

[MHM]

@Angela_Freda

Not to defend HH, but I do believe there was discussion about MB having suffered concussions,

I don’t actually remember that part, but realistically, I hardly know anybody who has ridden much who has not had at least one or two concussions.

Because… horses.

[MHM]

@Brown_Derby

I feel some of the players, particularly Schelhorn and the K’s, were clueless about major league barns.

There was no reason why Schellhorn should have known anything about major-league barns, other than whatever smattering of knowledge he might have thought would be useful for prosecuting the case.

It doesn’t sound like the Ks knew anything about major league barns, either, based on LK’s previous riding background, according to people who knew her at that time.

[hut-ho78]

@PDDT

@hut-ho78

The 8-9 concussions, his age, the divorce with the added business partner breakup, the cash flow issues, the freeze and living conditions with no one to help him through this, the deluge of hysteria in the information coming in from grudge holders against LK (who were not sued by JK nor at all frightened of him), he was all alone.

It’s funny how people can come away with such divergent viewpoints from the same information.
You frequently mention that MB suffered a significant number of concussions. Can you please remind me what evidence there is for that? I admit that I have not viewed the trial recently so I may have forgotten.
I don’t understand what you mean about his age? I understood him to be a healthy, middle aged man?
His business had the regular, ordinary cashflow of that type of business which he had been managing for years. That was in MHG’s evidence.
I understood there to have been a gap of a few years between the ending of his marriage/business partnership and the events of that summer. I don’t recall any of the doctors claiming that the beak up of his marriage had any impact on his mental health.
Do you have any knowledge of what information MB received from people who had been targeted by LK in the past? Either as to volume per your depiction of it as a deluge or content? Again maybe this is an example of a divergent viewpoint. When I think of what GJ shared here, I would not characterize it as a “grudge”.
You also stressed that he was alone. Funny, as I watched the trial, one of the strong impressions I came away with was how much support he had. First, his partner, who you curiously think he should have evicted in favour of the person who was causing him so much distress. RC came specifically to provide support. MHG’s father came to support them. His hayman, in the height of hay season was willing to work nights providing security - I remember thinking when I watched the trial what a good friend he was and how exhausted he must have been.

I have no horse in this race and don’t see MB as a saint, but it was clear to me in the criminal trial that he had the support and respect of his colleagues, his former partner, former clients and working pupils. I found it really telling that people who did work for him like the hayman and the woman who worked for the town held him in high regard. It led me to conclude that he is a decent person who treats everyone with dignity and respect.

After watching the trial, I concluded that LK leads a very isolated life primarily using SM for social interaction. Even her life partner seems to be paid for. And she is someone who appears arrested in her normal development. Eg her reliance on her father to handle fairly routine life functions like arranging board for her horses or finding a place to live.

There is an expression that no good deed goes unpunished. I think that is the situation here. MB extended a kindness of allowing LK to live at the barn, because she had cashflow problems. She then unleashed a series of bizarre and harmful actions because she felt slighted.

Thank you for your well thought out post and sharing your viewpoint.

You asked me some questions

I remember 8-9 concussions mentioned but forgot where. Apparently it was mental health testimony and 8-12 concussions plus a skull fracture.

https://nancyjaffer.com/barisone-gets-a-psychiatric-diagnosis/#:~:text=He%20noted%20that%20over%20the%20years%2C%20Barisone%20had,ride%20often%20suffer%20concussions%20when%20they%20fall%20off.

His age combined with the concussions raised red flags for me. Please see multiple threads in this forum on concussions and multiple concussion syndrome. Pus, there is a diagnosis that can only be done by autopsy regarding concussions but may be suspected by symptoms such as bad judgment, violence, and agitation, during someone’s lifetime.

A deluge is the impression I received from posters here who said they sent information to MB and MH just prior to the shooting at MB’s request. When I read those posts, I get nauseous thinking about the additional agitation caised. One person at least besides GJ seems to have a grudge.

I consider the back and forth with GJ to be in a class by itself. They continue on. GJ reputedly said vile things about LK and LK went lower than that with really awfully disgusting comments. I haven’t seen anything posted here except by GJ to come near that. It went too far, way too far. GJ even reported LK to TFG.

You are right about Hayman and there was also Tarshis. They were there for them. Anyone instructing MB to evict her was also there for him and that was also by testimony MH who asked if they could tell her to go because no one had.
What bothers me is that there seemed to be more effort made to bury her with SafeSport and USEF than the barn management task of evicting a problem tenant and boarder. I find it very odd that it was LO who had only met him a year before who closed up the barn when everyone else ran away (48 hours). Maybe he was not as alone as my impression. Maybe he was getting good advice and wouldn’t listen.

The payment of $965,000 wasn’t paid until the spring of 2019. MH testified that MB’s text to her where he listed monthly payment obligations was that it kept him up at night thinking of how to pay them. She also read a test where he said it was hard to “feel good after” VK “clipped him for $965,000. MH also testified that he had cash flow problems, not wealth, cash flow. He lost VK’s income. mH testified she was not paying anything to live there or for her 8-9 horses. Her income was not contributing to MB. I agree with someone that her schooling of horses was a valuable contribution but it t did not help cash flow issues. VK used to school horses and contribute to the income.

MB had some of the top ten stressors known plus 8-12 concussions plus a skull fracture. He always credited VK with making it possible for him to stand out with clinics and competition. Without her, all the things she did to aid his comfort and daily life were gone. No one else had quite worked their way to that point in his life.

[hut-ho78]

@Knights_Mom

Yes. Except RC had to be there on behalf of the prosecution to aid her own case but her testimony was pro MB. And LK lived there because her father threatened Mzb so that would happen.

Threatened with what? That’s gossip and speculation straight out of these forums. It wasn’t in the criminal trial that I remember. No proof, not even that of imperfect witnesses.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

MH testified that MB’s text to her where he listed monthly payment obligations was that it kept him up at night thinking of how to pay them.

November, 2018 was the date of the text. I’ve asked you before, but I don’t remember your answer. Why do you suppose, in the upcoming 9ish months between November, 2018 and August 7, 2019, there were no more texts of a similar nature introduced? Maybe, because it just wasn’t the issue you think it was?

@hut-ho78

I find it very odd that it was LO who had only met him a year before who closed up the barn when everyone else ran away (48 hours). Maybe he was not as alone as my impression. Maybe he was getting good advice and wouldn’t listen.

Justin Harden is still working for him, per his testimony in court. Does that count? If we know about JH, and LO, and the other working student that was on 48 Hours, (in addition to LO’s daughter) maybe it’s possible there are others that didn’t want the spotlight of 48 Hours and weren’t subpoenaed to testify?

[Knights_Mom]

@hut-ho78

His age combined with the concussions raised red flags for me. Please see multiple threads in this forum on concussions and multiple concussion syndrome.

You do realize that a majority of us here have also had multiple concussions, yes?

The straw that broke the camels back was Lauren Shay Kanarek.

[Angela_Freda]

@hut-ho78

His age combined with the concussions raised red flags for me. Please see multiple threads in this forum on concussions and multiple concussion syndrome. Pus, there is a diagnosis that can only be done by autopsy regarding concussions but may be suspected by symptoms such as bad judgment, violence, and agitation, during someone’s lifetime

I think you’re thinking of CTE

How many concussions does it take to get CTE?
According to published research, 17 is the average number of concussions that leads to CTE, which is the progressive brain disease that results in these long-term effects of concussions.Nov 19, 2020

Just because you have had concussions doesn’t mean you’ll get CTE.

Considering the abuse he suffered, his depression isn’t surprising, and his seeking professional help is commendable.
And since we haven’t seen a deluge of clients who suggest he was… Any of the things claimed…

[Knights_Mom]

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

Yes. Except RC had to be there on behalf of the prosecution to aid her own case but her testimony was pro MB. And LK lived there because her father threatened Mzb so that would happen.

Threatened with what? That’s gossip and speculation straight out of these forums. It wasn’t in the criminal trial that I remember. No proof, not even that of imperfect witnesses.

WTF?! RC was threatened by Schellhorn that she should testify on behalf of the prosecution in order to take care of her own charges or don’t you remember that?

[Ambitious_Kate]

@Sdel

For those bogged down by certain posters:

I really recommend a good cinnamon tea with honey as nice way to keep your center as you wade through.

Sorry, but there’s nothing like a cup of Earl Grey to center and ground.

[Squirt]

I need a recipe. That sounds soooo goood!

[Ambitious_Kate]

@OntheFnce

Please stop marginalizing the job of schooling horses. The vast majority of amateurs need their horses schooled - especially if they are unable to ride during the week. And if I’m not mistaken, I’m pretty sure she trained clients.

Except LK. She wouldn’t train LK. Edited to add: I thought at one point she refused to train LK any more. I do know that LK refused to be trained by her. Not sure what I’m remembering.

[hut-ho78]

@ekat

@hut-ho78

MH testified that MB’s text to her where he listed monthly payment obligations was that it kept him up at night thinking of how to pay them.

November, 2018 was the date of the text. I’ve asked you before, but I don’t remember your answer. Why do you suppose, in the upcoming 9ish months between November, 2018 and August 7, 2019, there were no more texts of a similar nature introduced? Maybe, because it just wasn’t the issue you think it was?

@hut-ho78

I find it very odd that it was LO who had only met him a year before who closed up the barn when everyone else ran away (48 hours). Maybe he was not as alone as my impression. Maybe he was getting good advice and wouldn’t listen.

Justin Harden is still working for him, per his testimony in court. Does that count? If we know about JH, and LO, and the other working student that was on 48 Hours, (in addition to LO’s daughter) maybe it’s possible there are others that didn’t want the spotlight of 48 Hours and weren’t subpoenaed to testify?

November 2018 was the $40,000 per month payments he had to make and couldn’t sleep etc.

December 2018 was the final divorces

March of 2019 was the hard to feel good after being clipped for $965,000.

This is why I don’t trust the legal people here. So helpful and knowledgeable on so many things except they have an agenda. It’s in the testimony. 21:06 to 23:23 transcript as well. https://youtu.be/3CaQGzfdEg8

JH is still working for him. Comments in these forums and LO on 48 hours said everyone left and LO was the only one to get his barn closed down. I certainly hope you are right that JH and LO’s daughter, the working student helped. That would be great. The impression I have is that too many people were agitating him and they all abandoned him soon after the shooting. Can’t really blame anyone, it had to be traumatic for all.

[McGurk]

I’ve had this with bourbon, pecans and brown sugar, but no bacon.

It’s a little more savory than sweet.

Bacon? Hmmmmmm.

[hut-ho78]

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

Yes. Except RC had to be there on behalf of the prosecution to aid her own case but her testimony was pro MB. And LK lived there because her father threatened Mzb so that would happen.

Threatened with what? That’s gossip and speculation straight out of these forums. It wasn’t in the criminal trial that I remember. No proof, not even that of imperfect witnesses.

WTF?! RC was threatened by Schellhorn that she should testify on behalf of the prosecution in order to take care of her own charges or don’t you remember that?

That was cooperating to get charges for a crime reduced not threatening.

You said JK threatened MB. I say no proof of that that I remember. Gossip and speculation is not proof.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

This is why I don’t trust the legal people here. So helpful and knowledgeable on so many things except they have an agenda.

I do not understand why asking you a specific question means I have an agenda. If you don’t want to answer it don’t, but don’t mischaracterize my question. My only agenda was, why aren’t there more texts after November 2018 specifically regarding “cash flow issues” if it was such a big deal to him?

The divorce and the settlement is not evidence of cash flow problems, it’s evidence of a divorce and settlement.

Can you point me to a time stamp in the 48 Hours when LO, or her daughter, or the other working student said that? Thanks.

[Knights_Mom]

@hut-ho78

That was cooperating to get charges for a crime reduced not threatening.

You said JK threatened MB. I say no proof of that that I remember. Gossip and speculation is not proof.

1st Sentence response: Yes threatened with arrest and jail if she didn’t cooperate.

2ns Paragraph: I said JK threatened MB because he most certainly did threaten him. Multiple times in fact. MB didn’t want to take LK up north, nor put her in the house in NJ. JK told him to do these things or else. Just like JK has done to other stable owners in other states, like the lady in NC.

Your continued mental gymnastics of twists, flips and reposturing has surely reached Simone Biles level of contortioning! Bravo!

[jvanrens]

@hut-ho78

I find it very odd that it was LO who had only met him a year before who closed up the barn when everyone else ran away (48 hours).

Ran away? Since someone had to haul the horses to Florida and there had to be people in Florida to take care of them when they landed there, it is possible that LO offered to take care of closing down the barn? It’s highly possible that one person (maybe JH?) did a couple of trips back and forth from Florida to move horses, so someone would have to stay in NJ and someone in Florida to take care of horses on both ends. If I could arrange things so I could stick around to help out in a situation like this for someone I liked, I’d sure as heck do it. Maybe being helpful when you can isn’t a thing in your world, but it is in mine.

[Knights_Mom]

@jvanrens

Maybe being helpful when you can isn’t a thing in your world, but it is in mine.

Absolutely. I boarded in a barn that sold and moved and every single boarder and student showed up with their trailers and in one day that group effort got the whole barn and 20 horses moved.

That’s just what you do.