Mb civil suit rulings 11/15/2022

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

Shooting in the direction of someone is not necessarily attempted murder. It could be a warning. It is reckless and if one misses and kills someone by mistake then it could be manslaughter or murder depending. Shooting someone twice in the chest at close range though not point blank range is attempted murder unless the shooter is proven insane, it is proven to be self defense, or other legally allowed defenses.

Well, isn’t this an interesting twist on all previous postings on this topic.

What happened to point blank double tap whatever whatever that you have insisted for so long? Now it is “close range though not point blank”?

And now the theory that shooting at Robert Guy Goodwin/Jim E Starks was not attempted murder, just some reckless shooting and that is why it was Not Guilty on all charges against the fiancé. Darn the state for not thinking of those charges.

[hut-ho78]

@trubandloki

@hut-ho78

Shooting in the direction of someone is not necessarily attempted murder. It could be a warning. It is reckless and if one misses and kills someone by mistake then it could be manslaughter or murder depending. Shooting someone twice in the chest at close range though not point blank range is attempted murder unless the shooter is proven insane, it is proven to be self defense, or other legally allowed defenses.

Well, isn’t this an interesting twist on all previous postings on this topic.

What happened to point blank double tap whatever whatever that you have insisted for so long? Now it is “close range though not point blank”?

And now the theory that shooting at Robert Guy Goodwin/Jim E Starks was not attempted murder, just some reckless shooting and that is why it was Not Guilty on all charges against the fiancé. Darn the state for not thinking of those charges.

I agree with the jury. They found MB not guilty of attempted murder of shooting at RG. I agree with the judge’s statement that MB shot at RG. I do not see them as contradictory.

Edited to add that I haven’t used pine blank since it come out in trial that no gunshot residue was found on LK’s jacket.

[Sdel]

Maybe. That depends on if they answer the subpoenas or not. But the judge issued an order about them. I don’t think he’ll tell Mr. silver and Mr Deininger too bad, so sad if they legitimately attempt to deliver the subpoenas. I suspect that they may be able to serve them to Nagel’s office since the judge accepted the plaintiff’s motions to quash and that was what he ordered the re-issuance of the subpoenas under.

[MHM]

@Sdel

I suspect that they may be able to serve them to Nagel’s office since the judge accepted the plaintiff’s motions to quash and that was what he ordered the re-issuance of the subpoenas under.

So does that mean the judge is acting as if Nagel is the family lawyer for the Ks, even if he only officially represents LK?

[MorganSercu]

Someone asked -

Insurance claim guy talks about the immediate remediation they did to deal with water damage from the burst pipe. They used a company called code Blue, and wet Sheetrock from walls, as well as portions of the ceiling and insulation was removed. To prevent further damage.

This was a common burst pipe situation, and common claim.

This insurance guy says he never spoke with Lauren Kanarek related to the claim.

Insurance guy said he did check the propane tank to make sure it was full, and make sure heat was possible in the home following the burst pipe. Because that’s a standard practice. Lost heat in homes can result in further burst pipes, etc.

[Jealoushe]

Hopefully I don’t get blasted for dare asking about the furnace but did you happen to catch any mention of whether it was confirmed the furnace was working?

[SuzieQNutter]

So when did it change to supposedly shooting at RG before LK was shot?

[CanteringCarrot]

@Warmblood1

It seems like the most important and meaningful thing the judge did was grant Mb’s amended claims to his counter suit, including the issues with the wiretapping act. Apparently MB has most of the relevant information issued in the subpoenas already and that the judge pretty much gave clear instructions on how to issue a new subpoena for further information that is more specific and very likely to be granted.

Maybe the communication on JK’s part to the judge had some bearing on the outcome of the contempt ruling and the view point that the subpoenas were too broad. Perhaps JK communicated that JK/KK were out of town and that was an explanation of why he outright ignored the subpoenas. Who knows. However, what JK maybe did not think of is that his communication with the judge proves JK is well aware of what is going on with the case and that JK/KK will be expected to comply with future subpoenas even if out of state. JK outright ignoring an additional subpoena that is well constructed and legitimate will not be well tolerated.

At this point, I’m pretty neutral over how the civil case pans out. I think both sides will be awarded some monetary amount. However, LK has already jeopardized her reputation and ruined any real chances of success as a dressage rider. She will never have a reputation worthy of a successful professional. Any professional worth their salt will avoid her like the plague. She will forever fight an uphill battle in the horse world, by her own making. She has essentially locked herself into a position as an adult amateur who will forever struggle with finding trainers, US breeders and partnerships, sponsorships, and/or boarding/training facilities as well as various professionals within the sport willing to work with her.

Personally, I’d much rather have a decent reputation and some chance at real progress as a rider with the potential for future riding opportunities than win some money in a civil suit. IMO, LK has already woefully lost and no amount of money will be able to salvage what she has done to herself. I think the progression within the sport is what LK ultimately cares about and she knows that is ruined - hence, her anger, deep dissatisfaction with life in general and refusal to move on.

I mean really, at this point, what has she got to lose?

[CanteringCarrot]

@iberianfan

In my very limited litigation experience, the judge may use the facts as cited by the plaintiff until they are proven untrue. I would bet this language comes from one of LK’s documents.

I was involved in a case that went to Appeals on an interlocutory appeal. Because the rest of the case had not yet been heard, the Appeals court cited the plaintiff’s facts verbatim.

It’s highly possible that is all that’s going on here.

I was about to say this earlier, but held off, due to my own limited experience, so it’s interesting that you mentioned it as well. I certainly feel as though it’s a possibility (not just in this case, but in general).

[Ambitious_Kate]

@trubandloki

Should I cite the Judgement of Acquittal form? I think it is more legally binding than this document you are puffing your chest about. Or are you just ignoring that?

Does this mean he was aquitted?

[Angela_Freda]

@hut-ho78

Except he saw all her social media and pulled out media he saw after the shooting to provide to the psychiatrist.

It’s my understanding he and mhg did this, pre shooting, in order to send to usef

However the full extent of the situation and the recordings in particular is evolving.

[lazaret]

@Sdel

Do we really think a jury is going to reward someone for that kind of behavior?

I suspect not; solely my own commentary but juries tend to go along with the easiest to understand points of the case. Obfuscating the issues generally does not help a case overall because juries are real people, not lawyers, and tend to see things in human terms.

[eggbutt]

@Warmblood1

However, LK has already jeopardized her reputation and ruined any real chances of success as a dressage rider. She will never have a reputation worthy of a successful professional. Any professional worth their salt will avoid her like the plague. She will forever fight an uphill battle in the horse world, by her own making. She has essentially locked herself into a position as an adult amateur who will forever struggle with finding trainers, US breeders and partnerships, sponsorships, and/or boarding/training facilities as well as various professionals within the sport willing to work with her.

This!

Everyone knows one can’t become an Olympian or World Class Equestrian without serious sponsorships. Can you imagine any business willing to sponsor Lauren Kanarek in any way whatsoever? Can you imagine the fallout for that business when the GJ texts are made public or any portion of what she did to Michael Barisone. Her goose is clearly well above 165° degrees of doneness! She is now and will forevermore be stuck where she currently is in every aspect of her pathetic life.

With the exception of Michael stuck in limbo, everyone else has become more successful in their endeavors and I have no doubt the same will hold true for Michael in the future.

Karma.

[Warmblood1]

@CanteringCarrot

@Warmblood1

It seems like the most important and meaningful thing the judge did was grant Mb’s amended claims to his counter suit, including the issues with the wiretapping act. Apparently MB has most of the relevant information issued in the subpoenas already and that the judge pretty much gave clear instructions on how to issue a new subpoena for further information that is more specific and very likely to be granted.

Maybe the communication on JK’s part to the judge had some bearing on the outcome of the contempt ruling and the view point that the subpoenas were too broad. Perhaps JK communicated that JK/KK were out of town and that was an explanation of why he outright ignored the subpoenas. Who knows. However, what JK maybe did not think of is that his communication with the judge proves JK is well aware of what is going on with the case and that JK/KK will be expected to comply with future subpoenas even if out of state. JK outright ignoring an additional subpoena that is well constructed and legitimate will not be well tolerated.

At this point, I’m pretty neutral over how the civil case pans out. I think both sides will be awarded some monetary amount. However, LK has already jeopardized her reputation and ruined any real chances of success as a dressage rider. She will never have a reputation worthy of a successful professional. Any professional worth their salt will avoid her like the plague. She will forever fight an uphill battle in the horse world, by her own making. She has essentially locked herself into a position as an adult amateur who will forever struggle with finding trainers, US breeders and partnerships, sponsorships, and/or boarding/training facilities as well as various professionals within the sport willing to work with her.

Personally, I’d much rather have a decent reputation and some chance at real progress as a rider with the potential for future riding opportunities than win some money in a civil suit. IMO, LK has already woefully lost and no amount of money will be able to salvage what she has done to herself. I think the progression within the sport is what LK ultimately cares about and she knows that is ruined - hence, her anger, deep dissatisfaction with life in general and refusal to move on.

I mean really, at this point, what has she got to lose?

Well - a lot of money lost due to costly legal representation and I suspect even further damage to her reputation when MB opens his mouth and tells his side of the story. MB has the most credibility here, which is pretty wild considering. I suspect there is A LOT we haven’t heard. Potentially she will be extremely limited with her financial decisions should she owe MB money - limited with assets she can have in her name, future financial decisions, etc.

Basically digging her metaphorical grave even deeper.

[lazaret]

@eggbutt

Everyone knows one can’t become an Olympian or World Class Equestrian without serious sponsorships

or “unlimited means” but I don’t think the meaning of that term is really quite understood vis a vis what it really costs to train and compete at that level, if $5000 per month seems like a bankrolling fortune.

[Angela_Freda]

@eggbutt

Can you imagine any business willing to sponsor Lauren Kanarek in any way whatsoever?

Dressage Hub?
NP steaks/publishing/security?

[Warmblood1]

Even if LK had unlimited financial means - which I don’t buy for a second - it doesn’t matter.

It takes a great deal of talent, good relationships and connections, a good reputation, quality horses, and a relentless work ethic to train with the top trainers in the US and to have any sort of chance at any team or decent international standing. It’s quite political. It’s a tight knit group and people don’t want to be associated with scum. Look at all the scandals in dressage and how quickly people get “dropped.”

LK has ruined her chances. Too bad. It is karma.

[Sdel]

@Angela_Freda

@eggbutt

Can you imagine any business willing to sponsor Lauren Kanarek in any way whatsoever?

Dressage Hub?
NP steaks/publishing/security?

Have you seen the comments on DH about LK? I doubt it.

[Angela_Freda]

Yes. There is some serious irony there.

[Warmblood1]

@Angela_Freda

@eggbutt

Can you imagine any business willing to sponsor Lauren Kanarek in any way whatsoever?

Dressage Hub?
NP steaks/publishing/security?

Beefman500 seems like the perfect sponsor for LK.

DH/SW absolutely loathes LK. SW made sure to make her website a top google result when googling LK which does not provide any flattering information regarding LK. Probably the only thing I respect about SW.