MB CIVIL SUIT UPDATE #10 K’s Request to Adjourn (delay) DENIED 11/01/22

This is where filing the suit so soon after the shooting could hurt them.

You have a duty to prevent spoliation or destruction of anything that might become evidence in a suit.

The defense (specifically SGF, in this example) has asked JK for specific video clips. They have evidence the video clips exist, because they have a recorded phone call discussing said video clips.

If JK were to now say that they didn’t exist/were destroyed/lost, whatever, the defense will request a hearing, JK will be asked about it under oath, and then his answers will cause the court to either a) believe him and say no harm, no foul, or b) find him in contempt, which leads back to that previous list of consequences.

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it’s almost like this is the point of discovery in a civil suit or something.

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Anything they have from other sources could be used to prove otherwise. But ultimately if they refuse to provide it or have destroyed it, they can be prohibited from using it as evidence to make or defend claims. Not only that, it looks very bad to a jury to be told that you refused to turn over evidence that was requested after you made a bunch of SM threats about using it.

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Wow. Sounds like the KK’s will not have any serious consequences against them, at least consequences they would care about - other than the general public knowing they are immoral and people to be avoided…

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I mean, it could get expensive for them, and it ultimately could, in theory, cost them their lawsuit.

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But they would just go on their merry way, onto the next victim. With no consequences. This really bothers me…. They should be held accountable for all the bad evil things they did!

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Depends a little bit on when you destroyed it.

If you destroyed it before it was subpoenaed, then it’s gone forever for both you AND the person requesting it. The only thing that can be used is other copies or other people’s knowledge of the evidence. If you want to say it never existed in the first place, you better be very sure nobody else can refute that.

If, however, there is reasonable belief that you have the materials and/or you destroyed them AFTER subpoena, you can be liable for spoilation of evidence. If the information can be inferred, it will be inferred against the destroyer by spoilation inference rules. Spoilation inference is a legal concept that allows others to conclude that the destruction of evidence took place because the party had consciousness of guilt. Title 18 provides sanctions for intentional destruction of evidence AND helping another party destroy evidence, with penalties including fines and imprisonment up to 20 years, but that’s pretty rarely invoked, the more likely violation is civil procedure rule 37, which can involve dismissal of wrongdoer’s claim, entering a judgement against the wrongdoer in favor of the other party, exclusion of testimony, or adverse inference rules as described above.

ETA: in this case, if the evidence existed as of the date of filing, and was subsequently destroyed, my second paragraph would apply; a reasonable person could conclude that the material would be relevant to the civil case and should thus be preserved.

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So, if there are statements made by LK of sending transcripts to Ann Klein……

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That’s my question, does SS have corroborating audio for those transcripts?
How do they, SS, compel the parties to give SS copies?

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We plunked the vet one time…. I had a pony that needed to be PTS, and a chicken. Vet gave a 2for 1. But she was definitely not used to little chicken veins compared to rope like horse veins.

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It would be different if the recordings had not been mentioned many times by numerous individuals in writing.

We know MB’s legal team has access to LK’s FB where she threatened numerous people with jail time over what’s said in the recordings.

We know KK has acknowledged them on COTH, even saying they were transcribed through a potential 3rd party and that MB’s lawyers have subpoenaed posts by KK and JK on COTH.

I believe IM also acknowledged the recordings and said they would be delivered but not positive on that.

Regardless, they been mentioned so many times in writing on the internet that if JK or LK state they have been destroyed, their credibility in the civil suit is going to be incredibly damaged.

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I’m wondering if that is why KK claimed to have used a transcriber. I would imagine SS would not just take the word of someone and would need some sort of verification that what was said in the recordings was actually accurate.

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That ship has probably sailed past Antarctica by this time. Twice.

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Civil suits are about assessing money as reparations for harm. They are a way of asking for compensation rather than punishment. If you launch then lose a civil suit, you can end up paying court costs and even damages to the defendant. So all punishment here is going to be about losing money. A lot of money.

I expect that there would be an advantsge to team MB to show that JK and KK participated actively in LK’s plan to torment MB, because they have actual assets.

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If these recordings are illegal and obtained in a criminal act, as argued by many, then the subpoena would compel KK to provide evidence that could incriminate her. That is barred by the 5th Amenment.
If these recordings were illegally obtained, then neither they nor the transcripts can be entered in the civil trial. As there is no legitimate use, there is no legitimate need to compel their being turned over.
If the recordings were legal and could be entered into the civil trial, then any transcripts would have to be professional and certified.
Since Barisone is, presumably, the person being recorded, he can testify directly about what he said. The recordings/transcripts would only be used to rebut or impeach his testimony. That seems an odd strategy by his lawyers.

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Hopefully it will be mediated and everyone can go on and live their lives. I cannot see an upside for anyone pursuing this myself.

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You have posted on this forum of communications with LO and SW about the shooting and related events.

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Are you aware that there are many ways a person can communicate with another person?

:telephone_receiver:

:phone:

Or, there is that in person option. Ya know, just talking to someone face to face.

I know it hard to believe when you are the Kanarek type but most people do not record their conversations with others.

:hatched_chick:

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No.

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Here is the thing about a civil trial that you seem to not quite get. That is OK, we all need to learn as we go around here. The civil trial is not the criminal trial.

One of the things that is being decided is damages done to the world of the other side. So the illegal recordings and the transcripts of those illegal recordings that Lauren Kanarek and Kirby Kanarek have claimed to have sent hither and yon to prove this and that thing over there are part of the civil trial.

The person who filed the claim can not turn around and just say ‘oh silly me, they mean nothing even though I have been boasting everywhere that they are full of bomb shells and I am giving them out to anyone who I think they might matter to’. The other side has a right to know what they include, what they have sent everywhere.

It sucks when your game plan all along is to threaten and attempt to destroy with a document when the other side turns around and says, can I please see that document, you can’t then say the document means nothing.

Another thing that maybe you did not realize (again, lots going on here with all that the Kanarek’s have not done in the civil case they filed), Jonathan and Kirby Kanarek had ample time to hire attorneys and fight the subpoenas the right way and they chose to ignore them instead. Don’t you think that since Jonathan Kanarek is a lawyer that he knew the right way to go about this? Seems so strange that he ignored a subpoena and had his wife ignore hers too.

:hatched_chick:

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