MB CIVIL SUIT UPDATE #10 K’s Request to Adjourn (delay) DENIED 11/01/22

[Warmblood1]

What you are missing with all of this is that the judge did order MB to Graystone’s step down program with shifting levels of intensity. The text you are citing is in reference to evaluating needs of restraint for when MB is at the appropriate facility. He is currently being held at a facility that does not align with the judge’s orders. He needs to be transferred so that the evaluations in which you are citing can actually take place. Not to mention his holding at AK directly contradicts what is written in law.

[MorganSercu]

@trubandloki

You so owe me a new keyboard and monitor! It is lunch time here. I was drinking my soda.

My husband made the BEST beef stew the other night and I have a container of it here at work. You may have some. If not, the container goes into the freezer for one or two lunches next week.

[Warmblood1]

Not just a little salt block either, a 50 pounder.

[trubandloki]

@MorganSercu

@trubandloki

You so owe me a new keyboard and monitor! It is lunch time here. I was drinking my soda.

My husband made the BEST beef stew the other night and I have a container of it here at work. You may have some. If not, the container goes into the freezer for one or two lunches next week.

Yum! That sounds so delicious!

[hut-ho78]

My point is that the judge is doing what he is supposed to do. There is a severe backlog for both Covid and judicial vacancies.

NJ Judiciary Report Reveals Growing Backlog of Cases in Counties With Highest...

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

My point is that the judge is doing what he is supposed to do. There is a severe backlog for both Covid and judicial vacancies.

But he is not.
He has to have the hearings and ordered in order to do those steps that you posted about. The hearings have to happen at the time schedule stated. Shall means must.

It is fine that you want to pretend ignoring the law is OK. But that does not make it that he is not ignoring the rules. He did not even attempt to follow the three month rule that is stated.

[Warmblood1]

@hut-ho78

My point is that the judge is doing what he is supposed to do. There is a severe backlog for both Covid and judicial vacancies.

No one is doing what they are supposed to do IRT to the judge’s orders. AK isn’t complying by moving MB. GS isn’t complying by receiving him. The judge isn’t complying by reinforcing his orders. The state isn’t complying by reinforcing well established law. MB might as well be stuck in Never Never land.

[trubandloki]

@Warmblood1

MB might as well be stuck in Never Never land.

Isn’t Never Never land a good place? Clearly he is not there.

[Knights_Mom]

@hut-ho78

My point is that the judge is doing what he is supposed to do. There is a severe backlog for both Covid and judicial vacancies.

https://lawgov.org/law-practice/nj-judiciary-report-reveals-growing-backlog-of-cases-in-counties-with-highest-judicial-vacancies/

While there is still a backlog I don’t believe at this point that is the issue.

[Warmblood1]

@trubandloki

@Warmblood1

MB might as well be stuck in Never Never land.

Isn’t Never Never land a good place? Clearly he is not there.

True, maybe he isn’t there. Although, Michael Jackson’s version on Neverland Ranch totally weirded me out. Maybe he is in No Man’s land. Or maybe Mars would be a better and more arbitrary comparison.

[omare]

Wouldn’t MB need to file something with the judge - about the present delay to get relief? It seems generally judges don’t issue orders ( for example move patient now) unless some sort of motion has been filed.

[Kitty64]

There was the option of him being released and him seeking treatment on his on. Mandatory treatment is common. So is releasing assorted criminals with ankle bracelets (common during covid). I’m not saying MB should be released with a bracelet. I think the judge is just trying to rack up the months until MB serves however many years he (Taylor) determines is the correct sentence. If the courts/facilities are backed up they need to be looking at other options.

[jvanrens]

@MorganSercu

Everyone hires at 330 am.

Of course they do!

[Graymaresrule]

RG may not have been allowed to visit LK while she was in intensive care. Often it is limited to family and fiancee isn’t family.

[jvanrens]

@hut-ho78

@ekat

@hut-ho78

See State of New Jersey vs Fields 1978

So, I’ve read this case several times. The reason the State Supreme Court took the case was:

“The narrow question before us is the entitlement of NGI committees to automatic periodic judicial review of the validity of the continued restraints upon their liberty on the basis of their dangerousness to themselves or others by reason of mental illness. We shall also address the ancillary questions of the allocation of the burden of persuasion on that issue and the appropriate standard and type of proof to be required”.

In writing their opinion, they reference following

“ the intervals specified in R. 4:74-7(f)” at least twice.

If you go to R. 4:74-7(f) you see this:

“ (2) Review. The order shall provide for periodic reviews of the commitment no later than (i) three months from the date of the first hearing, and (ii) nine months from the date of the first hearing, and (iii) 12 months from the date of the first hearing, and (iv) at least annually thereafter, if the patient is not sooner discharged. The court may schedule additional review hearings but, except in extraordinary circumstances, not more than once every 30 days. If the court determines at a review hearing that involuntary commitment shall be continued, it shall execute a new order. All reviews shall be conducted in the manner required by paragraph (e) of this rule. When the advanced age of the patient or when the cause or nature of the mental illness renders it appropriate, and where it would be impractical to obtain the testimony of a psychiatrist as required in paragraph (e), the court may, in its discretion and with the consent of the patient, support its findings by the oral testimony of a physician on the patient’s treatment team who has personally conducted an examination of the patient as close to the hearing date as possible, but in no event more than five days prior to the hearing date. A scheduled periodic review, as set forth above, shall not be stayed pending appeal of a prior determination under this rule”

How do you square that with Judge Taylor skipping over that hearing three months from the date of the first hearing?

One is that your carefully selected part leaves out the working the levels language, something I am now warning readers about. To the reader, here is an example and I’m so glad it was you who provided it. Go read the Justia article for yourselves. Don’t accept cherry picking from those with bias.

Also, New Jersey courts are struggling for resources. Court timelines are tremendously backlogged. They were before Covid and with many of the courts in New Jersey being too small for Covid protocols after in person court was allowed they are backed up even more. There are fairly recent articles on the problem.

https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/supreme-court/1978/77-n-j-282-0.html

Do you’re lecturing a lawyer on hiw yo read a legal article?

[eggbutt]

@Graymaresrule

RG may not have been allowed to visit LK while she was in intensive care. Often it is limited to family and fiancee isn’t family.

Understood, but 20+ miles away in a seedy part of town at 3:30 AM is a bit strange for a loving fiancee. It’s simply another interesting aspect of their relationship. If daddy can attempt to sway a court, surely he could sway the IC department to allow the beloved hero to stand vigilance.

[hut-ho78]

@jvanrens

@hut-ho78

@ekat

@hut-ho78

See State of New Jersey vs Fields 1978

So, I’ve read this case several times. The reason the State Supreme Court took the case was:

“The narrow question before us is the entitlement of NGI committees to automatic periodic judicial review of the validity of the continued restraints upon their liberty on the basis of their dangerousness to themselves or others by reason of mental illness. We shall also address the ancillary questions of the allocation of the burden of persuasion on that issue and the appropriate standard and type of proof to be required”.

In writing their opinion, they reference following

“ the intervals specified in R. 4:74-7(f)” at least twice.

If you go to R. 4:74-7(f) you see this:

“ (2) Review. The order shall provide for periodic reviews of the commitment no later than (i) three months from the date of the first hearing, and (ii) nine months from the date of the first hearing, and (iii) 12 months from the date of the first hearing, and (iv) at least annually thereafter, if the patient is not sooner discharged. The court may schedule additional review hearings but, except in extraordinary circumstances, not more than once every 30 days. If the court determines at a review hearing that involuntary commitment shall be continued, it shall execute a new order. All reviews shall be conducted in the manner required by paragraph (e) of this rule. When the advanced age of the patient or when the cause or nature of the mental illness renders it appropriate, and where it would be impractical to obtain the testimony of a psychiatrist as required in paragraph (e), the court may, in its discretion and with the consent of the patient, support its findings by the oral testimony of a physician on the patient’s treatment team who has personally conducted an examination of the patient as close to the hearing date as possible, but in no event more than five days prior to the hearing date. A scheduled periodic review, as set forth above, shall not be stayed pending appeal of a prior determination under this rule”

How do you square that with Judge Taylor skipping over that hearing three months from the date of the first hearing?

One is that your carefully selected part leaves out the working the levels language, something I am now warning readers about. To the reader, here is an example and I’m so glad it was you who provided it. Go read the Justia article for yourselves. Don’t accept cherry picking from those with bias.

Also, New Jersey courts are struggling for resources. Court timelines are tremendously backlogged. They were before Covid and with many of the courts in New Jersey being too small for Covid protocols after in person court was allowed they are backed up even more. There are fairly recent articles on the problem.

https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/supreme-court/1978/77-n-j-282-0.html

Do you’re lecturing a lawyer on hiw yo read a legal article?

Ekat has said she is not a lawyer. Claims of legal expertise and training on an anonymous forum may or may not be valid. Cherry picking information for bias can be done by anyone.

I am saying read it for yourself and don’t trust selected bits for the whole story.

[MorganSercu]

Plus it’s not like hospitals demand proof. Not everyone wears a ring and I don’t know anyone who has a certified copy of their marriage license in their pocket at all times.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

Ekat has said she is not a lawyer

You got me. In my very first post I said I am not a lawyer. I didn’t say I’ve never been a lawyer though, did I?

@hut-ho78

Claims of legal expertise and training on an anonymous forum may or may not be valid

True. You’ll never know if I have my JD or not.

@hut-ho78

Cherry picking information for bias can be done by anyone.

I’m struggling with how asking you a specific question shows Cherry-picking or bias. Perhaps they skipped that in law school.

@hut-ho78

I am saying read it for yourself

I did. And I asked you a question about their ruling and how it applies to Judge Taylor choosing to not have a 3 month hearing. You said COVID. Cool.

@hut-ho78

don’t trust selected bits for the whole story

My whole question was about the Court’s decision regarding required intervals for hearings. You said COVID. Cool.

[Angela_Freda]

That’s brings up an interesting point.

Sometimes what breaks a case is the cell tower tracking of someone’s phone.

But if their phone is taken by the police during an investigation, they then can’t be tracked…
.