MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[LexInVA]

Per the information about the online storage attached to the cameras described in the testimony information, the files would have been retained for 90-days from upload, unless a subscription plan for storage is purchased, so it’s very possible that any or all of them were retrieved by JK. Whether or not any of the files, if they were retrieved, were ever furnished to the Prosecutor’s office is another matter.

[lazaret]

If you mean phone texts, generally, the character content of the message is not stored indefinitely.

The phones, however, that were party to the communication do store that content locally, and it is often retrievable from memory even if it has been “deleted” from the phone.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

How many “separate defenses” did his lawyers claim? Do you think they’ll be actively pursuing them all?

17, plus they reserved the right to plead more. At this point, I sure do think so. I also reserve the right to answer differently as the case progresses.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Judge Taylor did not prevent Barisone’s lawyers from introducing evidence supporting self defense. He prevented Bilinkas from arguing self defense to the jury, given that no evidence of self defense had been submitted

That you know of, unless you personally attended the evidentiary hearings prior to trial.

[LiberalSnowflake]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@LiberalSnowflake

@Knights_Mom

@lazaret

@2tempe

Not arguing your post but I have to wonder why JK/KK would not have decided long ago to have separate counsel for themselves

I’m fairly certain that the expected outcome for them was a slam dunk. He’d be found guilty, and they would move for summary judgement on the civil case which would be easy because finders of fact would have already found that he caused their injuries.

So convinced of this outcome were they that they figured if even somehow that didn’t happen, everyone else would scurry away quietly in embarrassment.

It looks like both SGF and Michael are prepared to fight this one, so now they will attempt deflect and delay to see if they can come out with a settlement.

I personally am very interested in the precedent that could be set here - and I’d be willing to bet other legal minds are too.

If this goes to trial and given it will be a jury trial, Team Kanarek is NOT sitting in an enviable position. Sure lawyer play will be a big part of the outcome but we have already seen how juries feel about the narrative of how things progressed.

I’m guessing that LK is requesting a Zoom appearance as her previous appearances on the witness stand were fairly astonishing, even to a lay person, and she now knows how that plays out with a jury (quite disappointingly for her). If she’s on screen from a distance, she might be able to have a coach unseen in the room advising her on how to answer, how to sit, not to take massive slurps of soda from a bottle, actually wear her glasses to read etc. Anything to make the jury think better of her explanations than they did last time.

The request for a zoom appearance is for a deposition, not for the trial.

Thank you, happy to be corrected.

[LexInVA]

@trubandloki

Are the contents of our (general people) text type communications the type of data that is always available, even if parties delete it from their actual phones?

I know it has not always been that way, is it that way now?

Indeed. Cloud backups of text messages and their content are commonplace now. Phone companies retain them for some time and some of those companies have subscriber storage offerings for mobile device content and backups, but there are text messaging programs tied to other companies - such as Google - that also offer online storage service backups of phone data and text messages, which make it easy to port your stuff from one phone to another, regardless of the phone carrier.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

I know his move to AKC was delayed. However, he’s had much more than the originally specified 30 days of evaluation at this point.

So based on this you automatically jump to the conclusion something must be going on with Michael’s evaluation!!

I am thrilled that those who have seen Michael in person and have communicated with him via video, have remained quiet so you folks can let your imaginations run wild! Next you’ll say he’s been in solitary confinement or strapped to a bed all this time. Absolutely disgusting in every way.

You are a one trick pony with only one train of thought.

No, I have not “jumped to a conclusion”. I think it is one obvious possibility that Barisone’s lawyers would want to postpone the hearing rather than risk the hearing resulting in a commitment, if the assessments are not ideal.

Do you seriously discount it as a possibility?

Re bolded. It is disgusting that you attempt to put words in my mouth like that.

I did read the notification by Lara Osborne on the GFM page on the further postponement. She offers no explanation as to the reason for the delay. In the absence of an explanation, there are various possibilities.

[2tempe]

Re LK deposition: I can only imagine that this will be a lengthy event… Having been deposed a couple times, it can be stressful and tiring even when well prepped by attorneys. Its difficult to picture her holding it all together thru the process…
Re MB’s homecoming, I’m voting for low key and private. The man has not been out in the real world for 3 years and it will take time to readjust. Hope its soon.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

No, I have not “jumped to a conclusion”. I think it is one obvious possibility that Barisone’s lawyers would want to postpone the hearing rather than risk the hearing resulting in a commitment, if the assessments are not ideal.

Do you seriously discount it as a possibility?

Yes, because the assessment isn’t going to change. It is what it is. It serves Michael no purpose to delay anything at this point, as the hearing will lay out his plan going forward and if any level of supervision is still required, it starts the clock ticking on the hearing he’s supposed to get 90 days later.

Delaying, whether or not the assessment is positive, does nothing but hurt Michael as he’s stuck in limbo until such hearing takes place.

[LiberalSnowflake]

@lazaret

There’s no jury for a deposition. Depositions can actually be quite different than your experience in court, depending - there’s a court reporter but there’s no judge to mediate and pass judgements. You can ask any question, another party present can object, but the deposition continues until all parties with the right to depose are satisfied. The purpose is to get to the information that a witness knows and while the federal rules of evidence apply, you must answer - your attorney can advise you not to answer only to protect a privilege, or enforce a court order.

I’m guessing their play will be to just file to limit or terminate the deposition basically as soon as it starts, hence why they don’t want her to fly there to do it. You can file to limit a deposition if you believe it is unduly adversarial, embarrassing, annoying, or oppressive. Then they get to wait out the court decision on it and get a few more months. However, Courts generally don’t love this tactic as it wastes everybody’s time, deposition is a legal right and you can’t just claim to be annoyed to get out of it.

Thank you for that information.

[SillyHorse]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I did read the notification by Lara Osborne on the GFM page on the further postponement. She offers no explanation as to the reason for the delay.

Maybe because it’s none of our business. Yet you continue to offer your imaginings of various possibilities. Why do you get such happiness from that?

[Angela_Freda]

@LexInVA

the files would have been retained for 90-days from upload, unless a subscription plan for storage is purchased, so it’s very possible that any or all of them were retrieved by JK. Whether or not any of the files, if they were retrieved, were ever furnished to the Prosecutor’s office is another matter.

If they were available 90 days (or the day) after the incident and proved your claim of self defense, why wouldn’t you retain them to a subscription?

[lazaret]

Because the files belonged to someone who was trying to disprove self defense.

[trubandloki]

@lazaret

If you mean phone texts, generally, the character content of the message is not stored indefinitely.

The phones, however, that were party to the communication do store that content locally, and it is often retrievable from memory even if it has been “deleted” from the phone.

I was thinking about from the provider.

For example… If I claimed to not have that phone anymore when asked for all communications between me and someone else, can they then get that information from my service provider?
It sounds like the answer to that is that it is not that easy. (Which seems so strange to me now days.)

I have seen more than one time where the police have said they could not access the actual texts because they were deleted…I was just wondering if that technology had changed to the point that even if I wanted them to go away they were still stored by, like my example, the service provider.

[DownYonder]

@LiberalSnowflake

I’m guessing that LK is requesting a Zoom appearance as her previous appearances on the witness stand were fairly astonishing, even to a lay person, and she now knows how that plays out with a jury (quite disappointingly for her). If she’s on screen from a distance, she might be able to have a coach unseen in the room advising her on how to answer, how to sit, not to take massive slurps of soda from a bottle, actually wear her glasses to read etc. Anything to make the jury think better of her explanations than they did last time.

My guess is she wants a Zoom appearance because:

1. She can have more control over the situation (“Oh, sorry, my headphones aren’t working. Oh, sorry, I must have been on Mute. Oh, sorry, the screen went blank for a moment. Can you repeat that question again?”).

2. She can take whatever cocktail she needs beforehand to “prepare” her for the event (less obvious to onlookers via Internet than if they are in the same room with her).

3. She hopes to be able to record the proceedings with her own device so she can cherry-pick the testimony later.

[lazaret]

The carrier stores for a period of days to weeks, unless otherwise requested - so eg if a person goes missing, or is found murdered, the investigating officers will request that the archived messages be stored or documented before destruction.

On an ongoing basis, though, they are pretty regularly purged because the storage requirements would be massive.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Angela_Freda

@LexInVA

the files would have been retained for 90-days from upload, unless a subscription plan for storage is purchased, so it’s very possible that any or all of them were retrieved by JK. Whether or not any of the files, if they were retrieved, were ever furnished to the Prosecutor’s office is another matter.

If they were available 90 days (or the day) after the incident and proved your claim of self defense, why wouldn’t you retain them to a subscription?

If videos of the shooting ever existed and were recorded to the cloud, whoever thought they were valuable to their case, whether RG, the prosecution, or the defense would have subpoenaed them. Even if RG or someone else had tried to delete them, it is extremely difficult to imagine that the information that a file had been stored and then deleted could be covered up.

[lazaret]

@DownYonder

She hopes to be able to record the proceedings with her own device so she can cherry-pick the testimony later.

Not necessary. The deposed individual is entitled to a transcript of the entire deposition. So are all the attorneys doing the deposing, so everyone is looking at the same record.

[trubandloki]

@lazaret

On an ongoing basis, though, they are pretty regularly purged because the storage requirements would be massive.

Being old I think back to how little we could store on such a big floppy disc or such…and now so much data can be stored in such a tiny space.

Yes, total tangent and not on topic at all.
Sorry.

[lazaret]

Any one text message is not that large - but if you think about how many messages are sent over cell networks, worldwide, every minute of every day, the number of characters is massive. For a long time the content of the message was not stored at all, then it was stored for a few minutes to a few hours; at this point we’ve gotten up to a few weeks.

for scale, the estimated number of text messages sent worldwide per day is 27 billion.

[DownYonder]

And regarding RG being a “hero” - I say BS.

He “stepped up” at that moment because his and LK’s plan to destroy MB had resulted in unintended consequences in that LK was shot, and he was worried that he might be losing his meal ticket.