MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

An Appy aside:

We had one in the barn years ago and she just wanted to be a nudist. She was unridable if she wasn’t clipped in the winter, but she refused to wear a blanket.

We would meticulously fit her blanket on her every night and the next morning it would be in a pile in the corner of her stall—all buckles and straps still buckled and hooked. Finally a lounging surcingle worked.

I wish there were remote cameras way back then!

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Any training device is going to have advocates either for or against them. I can tell you, however, that more trainers than you might think use devices, across a wide variety of disciplines, in any level. I know GP dressage riders that are successful competition riders that use some form of auxiliary rein, including more than one Olympic medalist. They aren’t commonly discussed or shown being used amongst the public because trainers get torn down for using them, ironically most commonly by amateur riders. There are also many classical GP riders who have written books advocating some form of auxiliary rein. They are not uncommon and are not limited to one single continent. And we most certainly do have well schooled enough horses to properly work in side reins in the US. I would even say LK’s horse is well schooled enough just by what I saw in the video since the horse still maintained composure despite the spook.

That said, any horse not trained to give to pressure that is confined by any type of gadget can panic and flip over. It can happen in draw reins, neck stretchers, a chambon, a gogue, tie down, what have you - it is not limited to side reins. Usually those accidents happen when the horse has not been acclimated enough to the device and the device is tightened too much, too fast. That is not a fault of the device, it is a fault of the trainer.

I honestly don’t see anything baffling about the very short riding video of LK. I think people are being harsh with very limited information. I also don’t think all of her horses are dead broke school masters. This seems like a horse she is working to bring through the levels. Things happen while riding, such as horses running in an adjacent pasture, and that can work some forward thinking sensitive types up. I’ve certainly had it happen. I don’t think it’s fair to judge the horse or rider in a very short clip of the horse spooking. The horse is obviously not going to be responding favorably to any device in that state. IMO, she will be a much better rider if she can bring horses through the levels, not just ride dead broke school masters. It takes another level of proficiency to work through the problems and educate a horse that is also learning. She won’t gain the proficiency riding certain types of horses.

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Draw reins go from the girth, through the front legs, through the bit rings and into the rider’s hands.

Vienna reins go from the girth, through the front legs, through the bit rings and to the saddle billets. They are not contained in the rider’s hands, and allow the horse to move his neck up and down in an arc.

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You know it, and I know it, and Ulf knows it, and (hopepfully) at least 90% of the people reading this thread know it. But to some folks, it might look like, “Wow, LK - you had that horse going just like an Olympic horse!” :roll_eyes:

Another thing - it could be that Ulf and many other YH trainers in Europe use exactly that kind of device on young horses these days. But they are good enough riders to get the horse going correctly and keep it there most of the time, with the device coming into play only when the horse tries to “flatten out.” As in, “stay round and engaged and coming through from behind and this thing won’t put pressure on your nasal bone.”

So maybe Ulf is so used to having it in his toolbox, he threw it on LK’s horse expecting her to be able to ride more like the young horse riders in Germany he is used to working with - although I can’t imagine where or how he would have gotten an idea like that. :thinking:

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Then be better than she is, she said horrible things about you which was wrong so be better. As far as the horse being stressed, it reminds me of the Northern Lightness lady where people were saying that she can’t make assumptions based off a pic or 5 second video yet here we are doing that same thing because Lauren is unlikeable. My mare looks like that in literally every single picture I have of her because God forbid she have her ears forward. Gadget that isn’t dressagy at all aside, we can’t tell if the horse is stressed in the pic. There’s plenty of other things to critique about Lauren than this, plenty of things that don’t involve to stooping to her level because it’s as mean spirited as she is.

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I’m under no obligation to ‘be better’ in regard to a human. My ‘be better’ is in regard to horse welfare, and the posted pic is not in alignment with horse welfare.

I totally get your point of view. In riding, my concerns are geared towards the horses. I gave up salvaging fragile human egos long ago.

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Parra prevailed on every charge and every lawsuit regarding William.

It was considered a tragic accident. It took him years to work through all that.

Parra should have been held responsible for what happened to William. It was utterly disgusting.

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Seriously. I only ever cared that my horses and I performed better than our last time out. My coach’s feedback and my feel of the rides were what kept my horses’ training programs going in the right direction, which is what I cared about. Ribbons were just a bonus.

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When you live on the property you can.

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I’m honestly not anti “gadget.” In the right hands, most can be a very helpful training tool. But this contraption doesn’t seem to do anything except force the horse’s head down to make it more rideable. The rider is not learning the balance of give and take, and has no control of the amount of pressure used or when to release it here.

If, as I suspect, the goal of the gadget is to keep a less-skilled rider able to manage a horse that’s a bit too much for her, I’d far prefer to see draw reins used. At least the rider can control and release the pressure.

Also I don’t think anyone is out to criticize the rider’s skill - just the wide gap between what she claims her skill level to be in her lawsuit, and reality.

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I’m not anti ‘auxiliary rein’, per se. They certainly have their uses. As far as having horses schooled enough to go in side reins in the US… what I should have said is that this is not a common thing in terms of lesson horse programs in the US. It is much more common in Europe.

As far as horses flipping over in devices? Tightening too much, too fast certainly can cause bad things to happen. But things can also get dicey when a horse is very up while lungeing. Environment is a consideration. Of course people need to be able to deal with stuff going on around them and their horse when riding… but is it really wise to use the nose tie down device at the canter, with a horse who is a bit up, while there are two horses right next to the arena galloping around in their turn out? Maybe it’s fine for a very solid confident rider… but… for an adult ammy who is having challenges with the horse already? I think it’s pretty dicey. :woman_shrugging:

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My claim to fame is being 5th in the state for large pony hunters :joy: in 2000 something.
Then I did my medal class after psyching myself out and finished 9th.

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I appreciate the legal eagles coming in and cleaning it up for the rest of us!

Wow… that’s scary.

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You really do a great job breaking things down for those of us not in the biz. Thank you!

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Taking one for the team lol. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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Even sadder, it was not. Which means I have to go look through Day 2. :expressionless:

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At least she isn’t as snarky the second day. You will have to fast forward through her circle dance where the judge lears at her though.

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:rofl: sorry but thank you

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Barefoot, even! Just like the ninja.

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