MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[ekat]

@cutter99

Which once again proves she is not honest as the hearing was postponed as Judge Taylor is on vacation.

You have been told this repeatedly, yet still push LK’s lies. It hurts your credibility on this board when you do that you realize, right???

I thought I hallucinated this discussion yesterday, but, here we are.

[ekat]

@Warmblood1

I’ll be the Horse Treat/Fruit Ninja for the Party

I love it!

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’ve asked you this before and don’t remember your answer: do you think the civil defense (MBs defense) will attempt to retry the factual issue of whether “he shot her” and claim he did not cause her injuries? The plaintiff only needs the lower standard of “by a preponderance of the evidence” in the civil trial.

Yep. I have stated many, many times that they absolutely are pleading self-defense.

That preponderance of the evidence works both ways. Michael has the same standard to prove his claims and his defenses. And that doesn’t even touch on what I have also mentioned many times - comparative negligence, and LK mitigating her losses and how that might play to the jury.

We’ve seen how well she performs on the stand. Maybe we will see how Michael does this time.

Edit to add: the jury in the criminal trial were the finders of fact IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL. It doesn’t carry over. LK has to convince a new jury (5 out of 6 jurors, unanimous verdict not required) that Michael injured her. We’ll see if she’s managed to come up with a coherent story by the time it gets to court again.

( Michael’s acquittal carries the same weight in this civil trial as OJ’s acquittal carried in his wrongful death suit. None.)

OK. Sorry to sound like a lawyer here, but there’s a difference between “pleading self defense” and spending a lot of effort and resources trying to convince a jury of self defense so that he would not be liable for having shot her. I’m going to be surprised if they spend effort on self defense, given that Bilinkas couldn’t come up with enough evidence to get the self defense argument off the ground.

The OJ case was quite different. He was found straight NG, and with the lower standard (plus different jury) was found liable.

No need to apologize because you do not sound like a lawyer! There are most certainly no worries about the rest of us confusing you with a lawyer!

Post 156 of this very thread. LK talks about bring at the Krol hearing.

She says “victims or my representatives” being at the Krol hearing. In another post of hers posted in the thread she specifically says that her parents will attend “in her stead”. Her parents live in NJ, she lives in Florida.

Interesting that she says that the Krol hearing was postponed at the request of Barisone’s lawyers.

Which once again proves she is not honest as the hearing was postponed as Judge Taylor is on vacation.

You have been told this repeatedly, yet still push LK’s lies. It hurts your credibility on this board when you do that you realize, right???

How do you know it was postponed due to Judge Taylor’s vacation plans?

I don’t have a way of knowing why it was postponed. I have opined that it seems odd to me that it would be definitely scheduled for Monday, Aug 29, presumably having been coordinated with all the parties, including the judge, and that the court system then permits the judge to make impromptu vacation plans and blow off an important commitment. I can’t do that with my job, and I’m not a judge. I find it hard to believe that’s how they do things in New Jersey.

Each person on this forum has the right to assess the credibility of other posters. That’s totally fair.

[cutter99]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’ve asked you this before and don’t remember your answer: do you think the civil defense (MBs defense) will attempt to retry the factual issue of whether “he shot her” and claim he did not cause her injuries? The plaintiff only needs the lower standard of “by a preponderance of the evidence” in the civil trial.

Yep. I have stated many, many times that they absolutely are pleading self-defense.

That preponderance of the evidence works both ways. Michael has the same standard to prove his claims and his defenses. And that doesn’t even touch on what I have also mentioned many times - comparative negligence, and LK mitigating her losses and how that might play to the jury.

We’ve seen how well she performs on the stand. Maybe we will see how Michael does this time.

Edit to add: the jury in the criminal trial were the finders of fact IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL. It doesn’t carry over. LK has to convince a new jury (5 out of 6 jurors, unanimous verdict not required) that Michael injured her. We’ll see if she’s managed to come up with a coherent story by the time it gets to court again.

( Michael’s acquittal carries the same weight in this civil trial as OJ’s acquittal carried in his wrongful death suit. None.)

OK. Sorry to sound like a lawyer here, but there’s a difference between “pleading self defense” and spending a lot of effort and resources trying to convince a jury of self defense so that he would not be liable for having shot her. I’m going to be surprised if they spend effort on self defense, given that Bilinkas couldn’t come up with enough evidence to get the self defense argument off the ground.

The OJ case was quite different. He was found straight NG, and with the lower standard (plus different jury) was found liable.

No need to apologize because you do not sound like a lawyer! There are most certainly no worries about the rest of us confusing you with a lawyer!

Post 156 of this very thread. LK talks about bring at the Krol hearing.

She says “victims or my representatives” being at the Krol hearing. In another post of hers posted in the thread she specifically says that her parents will attend “in her stead”. Her parents live in NJ, she lives in Florida.

Interesting that she says that the Krol hearing was postponed at the request of Barisone’s lawyers.

Which once again proves she is not honest as the hearing was postponed as Judge Taylor is on vacation.

You have been told this repeatedly, yet still push LK’s lies. It hurts your credibility on this board when you do that you realize, right???

How do you know it was postponed due to Judge Taylor’s vacation plans?

I don’t have a way of knowing why it was postponed. I have opined that it seems odd to me that it would be definitely scheduled for Monday, Aug 29, presumably having been coordinated with all the parties, including the judge, and that the court system then permits the judge to make impromptu vacation plans and blow off an important commitment. I can’t do that with my job, and I’m not a judge. I find it hard to believe that’s how they do things in New Jersey.

Each person on this forum has the right to assess the credibility of other posters. That’s totally fair.

Because I know Judge Taylor is on vacation this week. As does everyone else on this thread, and it has been told to you repeatedly.

But, maybe you should call the Morris County, NJ courthouse tomorrow and ask. That way you can be sure!

Morris County Courthouse

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I have opined that it seems odd to me that it would be definitely scheduled for Monday, Aug 29, presumably having been coordinated with all the parties, including the judge, and that the court system then permits the judge to make impromptu vacation plans and blow off an important commitment. I can’t do that with my job, and I’m not a judge. I find it hard to believe that’s how they do things in New Jersey.

Pretty normal in my experience. I can’t tell you how many times my hearings were just out right taken for “more important things” often not even rescheduled until we had already “appeared” in court….

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@cutter99

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’ve asked you this before and don’t remember your answer: do you think the civil defense (MBs defense) will attempt to retry the factual issue of whether “he shot her” and claim he did not cause her injuries? The plaintiff only needs the lower standard of “by a preponderance of the evidence” in the civil trial.

Yep. I have stated many, many times that they absolutely are pleading self-defense.

That preponderance of the evidence works both ways. Michael has the same standard to prove his claims and his defenses. And that doesn’t even touch on what I have also mentioned many times - comparative negligence, and LK mitigating her losses and how that might play to the jury.

We’ve seen how well she performs on the stand. Maybe we will see how Michael does this time.

Edit to add: the jury in the criminal trial were the finders of fact IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL. It doesn’t carry over. LK has to convince a new jury (5 out of 6 jurors, unanimous verdict not required) that Michael injured her. We’ll see if she’s managed to come up with a coherent story by the time it gets to court again.

( Michael’s acquittal carries the same weight in this civil trial as OJ’s acquittal carried in his wrongful death suit. None.)

OK. Sorry to sound like a lawyer here, but there’s a difference between “pleading self defense” and spending a lot of effort and resources trying to convince a jury of self defense so that he would not be liable for having shot her. I’m going to be surprised if they spend effort on self defense, given that Bilinkas couldn’t come up with enough evidence to get the self defense argument off the ground.

The OJ case was quite different. He was found straight NG, and with the lower standard (plus different jury) was found liable.

No need to apologize because you do not sound like a lawyer! There are most certainly no worries about the rest of us confusing you with a lawyer!

Post 156 of this very thread. LK talks about bring at the Krol hearing.

She says “victims or my representatives” being at the Krol hearing. In another post of hers posted in the thread she specifically says that her parents will attend “in her stead”. Her parents live in NJ, she lives in Florida.

Interesting that she says that the Krol hearing was postponed at the request of Barisone’s lawyers.

Which once again proves she is not honest as the hearing was postponed as Judge Taylor is on vacation.

You have been told this repeatedly, yet still push LK’s lies. It hurts your credibility on this board when you do that you realize, right???

How do you know it was postponed due to Judge Taylor’s vacation plans?

I don’t have a way of knowing why it was postponed. I have opined that it seems odd to me that it would be definitely scheduled for Monday, Aug 29, presumably having been coordinated with all the parties, including the judge, and that the court system then permits the judge to make impromptu vacation plans and blow off an important commitment. I can’t do that with my job, and I’m not a judge. I find it hard to believe that’s how they do things in New Jersey.

Each person on this forum has the right to assess the credibility of other posters. That’s totally fair.

Because I know Judge Taylor is on vacation this week. As does everyone else on this thread, and it has been told to you repeatedly.

But, maybe you should call the Morris County, NJ courthouse tomorrow and ask. That way you can be sure!

https://www.morriscountynj.gov/Venues/Morris-County-Courthouse

Ok. How do you know Judge Taylor is on vacation this week? Are you stalking him?

Lots of posters have speculated in the usual loosey goosey way that it was canceled due to a) he’s on vacation, b) he’s taking his daughter to college, or c) his wife wanted him to spend the day with her (!?).

It does not seem credible to me that an important hearing would be scheduled, the weeks go by, and at the last minute the judge blows it off for a vacation.

I won’t be calling the Morris County Courthouse. I’m not a stalker.

[FitzE]

I defer to US legal professionals re: how judges holidays work. However, I will say that, given how egregiously this court has violated the clearly articulated standards under Krol with respect to the timing of the first post-acquittal hearing, I’m genuinely shocked that the judge was allowed to faff of on holiday suddenly and thus further exacerbate the court’s violation.

The continued delays are absolutely a violation of the rights of the acquitted and the court is, especially with this last-minute postponement for a holiday, exposing itself to some genuine risk while it establishes a pattern of behaviour towards this particular acquittee through its flagrant violation of Krol.

[hut-ho78]

Maybe he scheduled vacation after the hospital asked for more time for medical tests.

[Danvers]

LOVE YOU! perfect response!

[Danvers]

WOW! that is scary stuff if that is happening… they need to be brought up on charges if this is happening - thank you for bringing it to our attention…

[ekat]

@FitzE

I defer to US legal professionals re: how judges holidays work. However, I will say that, given how egregiously this court has violated the clearly articulated standards under Krol with respect to the timing of the first post-acquittal hearing, I’m genuinely shocked that the judge was allowed to faff of on holiday suddenly and thus further exacerbate the court’s violation.

The continued delays are absolutely a violation of the rights of the acquitted and the court is, especially with this last-minute postponement for a holiday, exposing itself to some genuine risk while it establishes a pattern of behaviour towards this particular acquittee through its flagrant violation of Krol .

I have spent inordinate amounts of time researching what happens if that first hearing doesn’t take place 60 days post-conviction and there’s nothing. It’s almost like it’s never happened since the Krol decision in the 70’s. No case law, no case notes, nothing. I can tell you what happens and what to file if the next hearing were to be delayed (assuming one is subject to some level of supervision) but this seems unprecedented.

Honestly if much more time passes, I’d consider filing a Writ of Habeas Corpus for lack of any better ideas. They do use that writ in non-Krol involuntary commitment processes.

[FitzE]

Exactly. I think I brought up the idea of needing a WoHC over a month ago now! I mean, this goes beyond egregious to violation of human rights territory.

I’m genuinely astounded that the court is getting away with these repeated delays/violations. Like, when did NJ become the legal wild west?

[ekat]

@FitzE

Exactly. I think I brought up the idea of needing a WoHC over a month ago now! I mean, this goes beyond egregious to violation of human rights territory.

I’m genuinely astounded that the court is getting away with these repeated delays/violations. Like, when did NJ become the legal wild

You probably did, and you were probably right! It really is astonishing.

For a little bit of legal history, prior to Krol, juries decided whether or not an NGRI acquittee would be committed and off the patient was sent. There was no oversight, no process for review, nothing.

Then along came Mr Krol, who, with his attorneys, thought he deserved better.

“Defendant appealed the commitment order to the Appellate Division, which affirmed. We granted certification, 65 *245 N.J. 561 (1974), to consider his contention that the standard for involuntary commitment of persons acquitted on grounds of insanity established by N.J.S.A. 2A:163-3 violates the due process and equal protection clauses of the fourteenth amendment to the federal constitution, a contention which we have not had occasion to consider in our prior decisions on this subject, State v. Maik, supra, and State v. Carter, supra.” State v Krol, 1975

The Krol decision took commitment out of the jury’s hands and set up a process to ensure the patient’s rights weren’t trampled on.

And, here we are, seemingly ignoring that very decision and trampling on Barisone’s rights. It’s not right. Maybe Michael Barisone will be the next patient to revamp the process because he shouldn’t have been left to languish like this.

I get that Ann Klein didn’t have room in the beginning. But it flies in the face of NJ law to let this go on this long.

[FitzE]

Holy moly, you and I were discussing this April. April!!

[ekat]

Oh my gosh that’s nuts!

You know, when I thought the hearing would be last week, I tried to do some counting of days on the calendar to see if I could come up with any kind of justification. So, giving everybody benefit of the doubt, and starting with when Michael was moved out of quarantine per the GoFundMe updates, (June 14), he should have had his hearing Aug 15th or thereabouts. Now, maybe you could stretch a couple days and get to motions/hearing day on the judge’s calendar, or something, but two weeks? And that’s ignoring the wasted time from the verdict on April 14th up until June 14th. Two months of nothing. He’s now spent more than double the time Krol mandates, with no end in sight.

[Fiesta01]

@eggbutt

The errors in this toilet paper are incredible.

Wouldn’t a judge see all the bad information in this request (trial verdict incorrect, Olympic medal info incorrect) and just deny it? Do we think her lawyer is purposely lying or is he just that incompetent? And if he is lying, would there not be legal consequences for him?

[Fiesta01]

@FitzE

But, most fatal of all, is that the overall tone is emotional to the point of histrionics.

Yes, but it doesn’t say she was shot point-blank, center mass, so it could have been worse.

[hut-ho78]

@Fiesta01

@FitzE

But, most fatal of all, is that the overall tone is emotional to the point of histrionics.

Yes, but it doesn’t say she was shot point-blank, center mass, so it could have been worse.

Well we know she wasn’t shot point blank but MB did a pretty fair job of hitting center of mass, twice. It probably should have been added.

[Fiesta01]

@hut-ho78

[Fiesta01]

@eggbIutt

Yeah, Im already obsessing about being locked in a plane for 11 hours flying to Europe next year.

Sidebar:
Thanks for saying that. I thought I was the only one feeling that way. I’m finally planning on going on the many-times-delayed trip to France in Apr. Being a lupus patient, I may need some sort of counseling to get through the anxiety of maybe sitting next to a sick, unmasked individual. I wish I could get over feeling this way.