MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[Sdel]

@Fiesta01

@eggbIutt

Yeah, Im already obsessing about being locked in a plane for 11 hours flying to Europe next year.

Sidebar:
Thanks for saying that. I thought I was the only one feeling that way. I’m finally planning on going on the many-times-delayed trip to France in Apr. Being a lupus patient, I may need some sort of counseling to get through the anxiety of maybe sitting next to a sick, unmasked individual. I wish I could get over feeling this way.

Spain in May. I may or may not have threatened to bring a horse home with me….

[RHdobes563]

@Warmblood1

@ekat

@Knights_Mom

You are SO not getting invited to Barisone’s Christmas Release party!!

I was hoping for a Halloween party. Where everyone comes in their favorite ninja costume.

I’ll be the Horse Treat/Fruit Ninja for the Party

Okay, I have to admit that around 1:00 a.m. I was skulking around my neighborhood. Tomorrow (well, today, as it’s past midnight) is my recycling day. I forgot the to put out my big recycling cart the last time–my regular garbage day is Wednesday, but my recycling day is every fourth Friday. AND my older brother brings his stuff, too, to me as he is a MAJOR recycler. So, because I forgot, I had four bags of papers, plastics, and bottles that wouldn’t fit in my cart.

So-o-o, I wait until dark and go across the street to the neighbor on the corner. Nope, full. I ‘casually’ stroll across the intersection and go north on the street to the first cart and open the lid. Eureka! Space. I walk back to my house and grab two of the bags. Again, nonchalantly, I start walking back to that cart. Whoops! A car is coming! I walk past the cart until the car is gone and then retrace my steps. I reach the cart and quietly open it. I carefully place the bags in the cart. Still more room. Good.

I begin walking back and decide to turn at the corner. The house to the west has two big recycling carts out. Carefully, I open the first cart. Plenty of “extra” room. Second one is full. Here comes another car! I wait until it is close and then move slowly towards the house, as if I live there. Okay, it’s gone. I go back across the street to my house, pick up the last two bags, and start back.

Here comes another car! What the heck are they all doing out? I walk down the sidewalk as if it’s normal to be carrying stuff around this late at night. I go to the first cart and set down one bag. Lifting the lid, I wedge one bag into it. Crap. It’s full of bottles, and they are clinking against each other as I stuff it in. Nope, no lights come on in the house. I quickly pick up the last bag and go around the corner. Whew, no cars are coming. I lift the lid, put the last bag in, and quickly walk back to my house.

Just call me the Trash Ninja at the Halloween party.

For an aside, I was watching the Canterbury Park (MN) horse racing tonight live on YouTube. They have Thoroughbred and sometimes, Quarter Horse racing. In Race 8, Quarter Horses, the favorite was “Michael B.” I thought that IF I bet REAL money, I would put some on him, just 'cuz, you know. He went off as the BIG favorite, and WON! Hope that that’s a premonition of sorts.

Done now. Trash Ninja signing out…

[Fiesta01]

@Sdel

Spain in May. I may or may not have threatened to bring a horse home with me….

Ooh, there’s an idea. If I could get a horse out of the deal, maybe it would help me get over my unease about going.

Good luck on your maybe shopping trip!

[Ambitious_Kate]

@SpicyPRE

Then he should have left the cast on. Pics of him in the hotel room, with no cast/brace is not necessarily good should he want to claim any ongoing issue.

I don’t think the medical records of how he was treated for a dog bite, which is what his wound looked like to me was, would help a case for him any. Unless he sues LK, that is.

[Knights_Mom]

@ekat

@Knights_Mom

You are SO not getting invited to Barisone’s Christmas Release party!!

I was hoping for a Halloween party. Where everyone comes in their favorite ninja costume.

I was counting on TWO parties, one for each holiday!!

[Knights_Mom]

@FitzE

I defer to US legal professionals re: how judges holidays work. However, I will say that, given how egregiously this court has violated the clearly articulated standards under Krol with respect to the timing of the first post-acquittal hearing, I’m genuinely shocked that the judge was allowed to faff of on holiday suddenly and thus further exacerbate the court’s violation.

The continued delays are absolutely a violation of the rights of the acquitted and the court is, especially with this last-minute postponement for a holiday, exposing itself to some genuine risk while it establishes a pattern of behaviour towards this particular acquittee through its flagrant violation of Krol.

I’ve already commented that court staff and judges are most certainly always rescheduling summer court appearances. It is common, ordinary and usually done.

[Knights_Mom]

@ekat

@FitzE

I defer to US legal professionals re: how judges holidays work. However, I will say that, given how egregiously this court has violated the clearly articulated standards under Krol with respect to the timing of the first post-acquittal hearing, I’m genuinely shocked that the judge was allowed to faff of on holiday suddenly and thus further exacerbate the court’s violation.

The continued delays are absolutely a violation of the rights of the acquitted and the court is, especially with this last-minute postponement for a holiday, exposing itself to some genuine risk while it establishes a pattern of behaviour towards this particular acquittee through its flagrant violation of Krol .

I have spent inordinate amounts of time researching what happens if that first hearing doesn’t take place 60 days post-conviction and there’s nothing. It’s almost like it’s never happened since the Krol decision in the 70’s. No case law, no case notes, nothing. I can tell you what happens and what to file if the next hearing were to be delayed (assuming one is subject to some level of supervision) but this seems unprecedented.

Honestly if much more time passes, I’d consider filing a Writ of Habeas Corpus for lack of any better ideas. They do use that writ in non-Krol involuntary commitment processes.

A Writ of HC would be entirely appropriate.

[Sdel]

@Fiesta01

Good luck on your maybe shopping trip!

I’d really better find one before then. Otherwise I might be divorced when I get back…

[Fiesta01]

@CurrentlyHorseless

He said “guilty” (non capitalized) of attempted murder. He did not say Guilty (capitalized) of attempted murder. That tells me that he’s not using the word guilty as the criminal verdict Guilty, but saying that the jury determined that “he shot her”. Which it did.

Gosh, life must be so difficult and complicated for some people.

[MHM]

@RHdobes563

Done now. Trash Ninja signing out…

This story cracked me up. A friend of mine did something similar a few years back, although maybe not at 1:00 AM, and got totally busted for it by the neighbor, who was very annoyed with him. Lol.

[Fiesta01]

@FitzE

I’m genuinely astounded that the court is getting away with these repeated delays/violations. Like, when did NJ become the legal wild west?

But who has the authority to hold the court to the deadlines? I’m assuming MBs lawyers would need to file some type of request for redress. (Sorry, not a lawyer and don’t know appropriate term to use). If Taylor still has so much power in determining MB’s fate, would it be risky to take that action?

[Fiesta01]

Ha! Let’s just hope there is no murder in the area with a missing body. With all the Ring cameras around, you will be suspect numero un.

[Knights_Mom]

A Writ of Habeus Corpus is an entirely appropriate filing.

What You Should Know About Habeas Corpus

[LiberalSnowflake]

@DownYonder

I’ve been thinking about the screenshot I posted upthread, where LK referred to “voice memo quiet recording abilities.” Also, we know from RG’s testimony in the criminal trial, that he surreptitiously recorded conversations at the barn by walking around with his phone set to record.

My iPhone has a feature for recording voice memos, and allows a recorded memo to be easily shared with others by sending it in a text message.

Two questions:
1 - In a legal investigation, if someone is compelled to turn over all “emails, text messages, recordings, etc.,” are these types of voice memos supposed to be included?

2 - Are those types of voice memos recoverable? I am guessing they are not recoverable if they are never “shared” and are deleted from the phone. But what if they have been shared via text? Can they be retrieved from the cloud, etc., by the service provider?

I am thinking that the recordings RG made at the barn were very likely shared with LK, and perhaps even with JK. And God knows what recordings RG made of LK and/or JK that he may have shared with others (or stored somewhere for a rainy day).

I’ve started using this iPhone “Voice Memo” recording app for my interviews. If I interview you and then send you the voice recording file and then delete my copy, you still have a copy - it doesn’t delete it anywhere except for me. Even then, I can go to “Recently Deleted” within the app and the deleted file is there. I don’t know how long they stay in “Recently Deleted” without being somehow permanently deleted, but I’ve got some in there that have been deleted for a month and are still showing. You can swipe them over and “Delete Forever” - I don’t know if they’re recoverable by me from that point. I know that pretty much every clever IT person will tell you that things NEVER go away, whether you delete them or not, someone just has to be bothered to put in the legwork and time to haul them back from wherever they’ve been stored.

[Fiesta01]

Don’t worry. COTHers can testify for you when Mr. Sdel takes you to divorce court. Just please remind us what we’re supposed to say ahead of time!

[BigMama1]

@ekat

Because the previous acquittal has no bearing on the new jury. Who knows, maybe they’ll decide he didn’t cause her injuries. Maybe they’ll decide she was more negligent than him, and completely failed to mitigate her damages. Maybe they’ll also decide she owes him for damages inflicted upon him.

Or they could rule in her favor.
But Michael’s previous acquittal carries no weight in the civil suit.

I feel like this needs to be repeated every 10 posts or so…

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’ve asked you this before and don’t remember your answer: do you think the civil defense (MBs defense) will attempt to retry the factual issue of whether “he shot her” and claim he did not cause her injuries? The plaintiff only needs the lower standard of “by a preponderance of the evidence” in the civil trial.

I don’t.

Absolutely I think they should and they will. For reference, look at OJ Simpson’s criminal trial verdict vs the outcome of the wrongful death suit filed against him.

This jury has a blank slate to start with and they will be able to hear a lot of evidence and testimony that wasn’t permitted at the criminal trial. Given the lack of physical evidence and videos to prove that Michael was the one who fired the gun, the factual issue of who shot Lauren and therefore who is responsible for her pain and suffering must come into consideration. As well, any role Lauren played in causing the explosive situation which ended in violence will be considered, along with any potential failure on her part to act in such a way that would lower her risk.

The criminal trial verdict is completely irrelevant here. The only fact not in dispute is that Lauren got shot and was seriously injured. Everything else - how, by whom, and why - is open for discussion.

[trubandloki]

@FitzE

Like, when did NJ become the legal wild west?

I love this! Well, I do not love that it is clearly so true on so many levels not just this Krol hearing. I think it is a perfect description of this police force, DA, etc.

@Fiesta01

Wouldn’t a judge see all the bad information in this request (trial verdict incorrect, Olympic medal info incorrect) and just deny it? Do we think her lawyer is purposely lying or is he just that incompetent? And if he is lying, would there not be legal consequences for him?

You ask a good question. Legal Peeps - does a judge in a situation like this look up any facts (or have their team look up any facts) or is it assumed that the lawyer actually is not intentionally being dishonest in their paperwork?

I am still confused why a lawyer (Jonathon Kanarek) would not file any response to a subpoena and then expect nothing to happen.

[FitzE]

@trubandloki

I am still confused why a lawyer (Jonathon Kanarek) would not file any response to a subpoena and then expect nothing to happen.

As a lawyer, I am also very confused by this behaviour on behalf of someone who would (or at least should) know better. I cannot square this lack of response with what we’ve been told about the Kanarek family legal prowess.

Also, if LK herself referred the other side to JK as a source for responsive materials during discovery, how then could follow-up requests to JK be deemed ‘harassment’ by anyone with even a modicum of common sense, let alone legal knowledge?

[trubandloki]

@FitzE

Also, if LK herself referred the other side to JK as a source for responsive materials during discovery, how then could follow-up requests to JK be deemed ‘harassment’ by anyone with even a modicum of common sense, let alone legal knowledge?

Very good point.
The person who filed the claim is telling them to talk to her father, Jonathon Kanarek, and then Jonathon Kanarek, a lawyer, ignores the subpoena.
I wonder how the defense is supposed to get the evidence if asking for it is now considered harassment and going to get it yourself (looking at her social media like she told them to) is now called stalking.