MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Not that I heard. There was testimony that MHG made it clear that she, MHG, wanted LK gone as early as April.

But LK was training with Barisone. I saw no testimony that Barisone requested she leave prior to Aug 5/6.

MHG testified she told her to leave, not just that she wanted her gone.

Perhaps one day Michael will tell the world when he first asked her to leave. I suspect it was long before his attorney started negotiating her leaving with her father, for crying out loud, in July.

[smoofox]

@ekat

@Knights_Mom

She was verbally told much earlier as evidenced by her father negotiating moving to another place and even before that. An eviction notification may be made verbally. For normal people, they get it and leave.

Yeah, there was testimony she was told to leave in April. Normal people leave. They don’t plant hidden recorders and cameras, among other things. And when they get written notice,they don’t go see how they can bring inspectors out and get Michael booted instead. On his own property. Etc…

Yeah… she had ZERO intent of leaving. She was just playing 5D chess with all the lesser folk and was spouting off all over Facebook with glee…

[edit]

Just catching up in a short break before I head back to wrestling with 3-string grass hay bales… but upthread it was mentioned that LK and RG were simply “in the wrong place at the wrong time” and MB would have had the exact same breakdown without those fine innocent folks being there…

Wow.

Considering all of LK’s boasting and bragging about how she was dealing with MB all over SM and here on COTH… and all her antics revealed during the criminal trial… suggesting that the Not-So-Dynamic Duo were merely innocent bystanders as opposed to turning the screws and playing a sick little game is… interesting.

And part of that game was saying put when it was made very clear to them as far back as April that they should move…

[Warmblood1]

@cutter99

@hut-ho78

Because she is traumatized by being shot twice and flatlining twice. PTSD.

What explains her behavior before she was shot? She was not some paradigm of a kind and caring person before she was shot!

She took the personal information of a man she felt wronged her, because she was not the center of his universe, and used that information to cause him to be declared legally insane on August 7, 2019.

FINISH THE BASTARD!

Yeah, she was so traumatized that she came here, threatened others repeatedly, was caught in bold faced lies constantly, was rude and out and out cruel to people until she was finally banned.

As much as you would like to portray LK as an innocent victim, she has proven by her own testimony, as well as what she has said on multiple social media platforms, she is anything other than innocent.

All this legal wrangling is just more of her attempts to play 3D chess with other people’s lives.

I, for one, cannot wait for the civil trial. The skeletons are just jangling in the closet and they cannot wait to come out and speak their truth!

This is such a good post I had to quote it. What justifies LK’s behavior prior to the shooting when she wasn’t a victim but a predator?

ETA: @cutter99, I didn’t quote your other posts but you are so on point today. I love everything you’ve posted!

[Scribbler]

@lazaret

@CindyB59

But in the whole eviction process, them having to have someplace they “approve” of to move, is a ridiculous notion.

I’m guessing this was the situation because neither party was following their legally available processes to enforce their part of the agreements - LK could have left and filed suit for funds she felt she was owed; MB could have filed stableman’s liens or eviction proceedings.

This has been explained in previous threads. Apparently the landlord needs to follow a process. They need to notify the tenant about eviction, which had just happened by email. If that’s ignored, then they can start eviction proceedings. Where I live the tenant can appeal these, and take up more time.

It is always preferable to make these things happen before they escalate to the court level, which is why JK and MBs lawyer Tahrsis were in discussion how to move LK voluntarily. She refused to leave, even on her father’s advice. After that, things ramped up a notch and JK hired lawyer ED to continue process with Tahrsis. That led to the first eviction notice being emailed I think the day of the shooting. Edit to add: I see from the timeline, it was sent the day before after which LK doubled down on her harassment of MB.

I think any lawyer would say, handle such things in increments.

You can’t start legal eviction proceedings until you have done a first notification and you certainly can’t file a lien or go to small claims court until you have reached a point where your tenant has ceased paying. Since the house was free and the horses were being paid for and the renovation agreement murky at best (there are at least 3 different accounts of how that was meant to work, from team MB, from LK and from RG), this is something you would pursue after eviction if it mattered. Not something you do as a cause or excuse for eviction. Because the small claims court on this would take forever.

[MHM]

@trubandloki

You are so right. I had forgotten about Ed.

I’ll bet ED would be glad to have everyone forget that he was involved in this case in any way.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@lazaret

@CurrentlyHorseless

Michael Barisone, Michael Barisone Dressage, and SGF are are distinct legal entities.

Not really, but Michael Barisone, the person, is a member of SGF, the corporation. SGF, the corporation, is crossclaiming to sever their liability, as a corporation, from the liability of Michael Barisone, as a person. He, as a member of the corporation, is protected as an owner of the corporation from personal liability against the negligence of the corporation. That is completely independent from his personal liability, and also has nothing to do with insurance.

Your lack of legal understanding is profound in so many cases.

SGF is being sued. I’m interpreting their defense and cross claim against MB as asserting that the liability for her injuries should rest with MB as an individual or with MBD, rather than with SGF.

I agree that as a member of the LLC, MB would be shielded from personal liability.

I don’t see how any of that contradicts the statement that MB, MBD, are distinct legal entities.

[ekat]

@Scribbler

This has been explained in previous threads. Apparently the landlord needs to follow a process. They need to notify the tenant about eviction, which had just happened by email. If that’s ignored, then they can start eviction proceedings. Where I live the tenant can appeal these, and take up more time.

It is always preferable to make these things happen before they escalate to the court level, which is why JK and MBs lawyer Tahrsis were in discussion how to move LK voluntarily. She refused to leave, even on her father’s advice. After that, things ramped up a notch and JK hired lawyer ED to continue process with Tahrsis. That led to the first eviction notice being emailed I think the day of the shooting.

I think any lawyer would say, handle such things in increments.

You can’t start legal eviction proceedings until you have done a first notification and you certainly can’t file a lien or go to small claims court until you have reached a point where your tenant has ceased paying. Since the house was free and the horses were being paid for and the renovation agreement murky at best (there are at least 3 different accounts of how that was meant to work, from team MB, from LK and from RG), this is something you would pursue after eviction if it mattered. Not something you do as a cause or excuse for eviction. Because the small claims court on this would take forever.

Well said and as it happens, in NJ, after a court ruling in favor of eviction, the tenant can stay for up to six more months.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

Not that I heard. There was testimony that MHG made it clear that she, MHG, wanted LK gone as early as April.

But LK was training with Barisone. I saw no testimony that Barisone requested she leave prior to Aug 5/6.

It is creepy that you think MHG asking LK to leave is an excuse for LK not to realize she had to go. It was a valid request to vacate.

It’s shady to say MHG didn’t represent MBs wishes as if she’d gone rogue.

The bigger question then must be why someone would insist on staying where they weren’t wanted. Did they think MB/MHG would change their mind?

Again all this comes out in the civil case and I’m positive the jury will be shocked by it.

MHG doesn’t represent MBs wishes; she represents her own wishes.

MB was the owner of the training business, and it was on him to clearly articulate that he, not just MHG wanted LK gone.

It is puzzling to me that MB did not ask her leave in April or May or June or July, given his girlfriend’s animosity toward LK. But there is no evidence that MB asked/told LK to leave prior to Aug 5/6.

[Scribbler]

@ekat

@Scribbler

This has been explained in previous threads. Apparently the landlord needs to follow a process. They need to notify the tenant about eviction, which had just happened by email. If that’s ignored, then they can start eviction proceedings. Where I live the tenant can appeal these, and take up more time.

It is always preferable to make these things happen before they escalate to the court level, which is why JK and MBs lawyer Tahrsis were in discussion how to move LK voluntarily. She refused to leave, even on her father’s advice. After that, things ramped up a notch and JK hired lawyer ED to continue process with Tahrsis. That led to the first eviction notice being emailed I think the day of the shooting.

I think any lawyer would say, handle such things in increments.

You can’t start legal eviction proceedings until you have done a first notification and you certainly can’t file a lien or go to small claims court until you have reached a point where your tenant has ceased paying. Since the house was free and the horses were being paid for and the renovation agreement murky at best (there are at least 3 different accounts of how that was meant to work, from team MB, from LK and from RG), this is something you would pursue after eviction if it mattered. Not something you do as a cause or excuse for eviction. Because the small claims court on this would take forever.

Well said and as it happens, in NJ, after a court ruling in favor of eviction, the tenant can stay for up to six more months.

Which makes a negotiated departure a much better idea when dealing with a known grifter or harasser. If you go through the courts they can dig in their heels and stay for a long time causing more trouble.

It’s not so simple as file a document and then call the sheriff.

Just like launching a civil suit is not so simple as airing a grievance and getting a pot of money.

The courts do not function quickly or efficiently for things that are basically interpersonal disputes.

So it sounds like MB was getting good advice from Tahrsis and that JK was negotiating in good faith. Then LK refused the deal JK set up, and JK called in ED as a property lawyer because Tahrsis was now going to have to move toward the eviction process.

I think the timeline of communication around this before and after the shooting is extremely important for establishing LK’s role in the events that followed. Basically she was refusing reasonable solutions and ramping up her bad behavior. And has blasted that bad behavior all over SM and admitted to it on court. Because JK was personally involved in the eviction negotiations, and was also paying all the bills, and KK appears to have been personally involved in harassing MB via SS, and JK and RG crossed police tape the day after to remove things from the house, they are all deeply involved in this as players, and as part of the timeline.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

But there is no evidence that MB asked/told LK to leave prior to Aug 5/6.

He just had his attorney call up dad out of the blue in July and ask him to help get Lauren off his property because…? AND, Dad didn’t bother to tell his kid, time’s up, gotta go! But jumped into negotiations that landed on a barn 15 minutes away?

Ok.

[trubandloki]

[edit]

@Scribbler

It’s not so simple as file a document and then call the sheriff.

Even more so when you are dealing with a department that clearly does not want to have to acknowledge you or any problem you might be having.

[ekat]

@Scribbler

Which makes a negotiated departure a much better idea when dealing with a known grifter or harasser. If you go through the courts they can dig in their heels and stay for a long time causing more trouble.

It’s not so simple as file a document and then call the sheriff.

Just like launching a civil suit is not so simple as airing a grievance and getting a pot of money.

The courts do not function quickly or efficiently for things that are basically interpersonal disputes.

No, it’s never the easy path to litigate this stuff.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

But there is no evidence that MB asked/told LK to leave prior to Aug 5/6.

He just had his attorney call up dad out of the blue in July and ask him to help get Lauren off his property because…? AND, Dad didn’t bother to tell his kid, time’s up, gotta go! But jumped into negotiations that landed on a barn 15 minutes away?

Ok.

If you’re saying that that is bizarre behavior on the face of it, I agree. Getting a handgun and shooting someone in broad daylight is even more bizarre behavior. Calling 911 because your client refuses to sign a document you want her sign is bizarre behavior.

The jury found that MB was insane; delusional. Why are you still trying to interpret his actions based on the assumption that he was acting rationally?

[SillyHorse]

@CurrentlyHorseless

MHG doesn’t represent MBs wishes; she represents her own wishes.

Pure conjecture on your part.

@CurrentlyHorseless

MB was the owner of the training business, and it was on him to clearly articulate that he, not just MHG wanted LK gone.

Nope. When the owner of my barn wants someone gone, the barn manager takes care of it. Stop making things up to suit your flawed narrative,

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

If you’re saying that that is bizarre behavior on the face of it, I agree. Getting a handgun and shooting someone in broad daylight is even more bizarre behavior.

I personally still have a truckload of reasonable doubt about how the handgun got there and when the struggle occurred. Perhaps we will learn more.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Calling 911 because your client refuses to sign a document you want her sign is bizarre behavior.

That’s not why he called 911. That’s information he gave the operator, but not why he called.

@CurrentlyHorseless

The jury found that MB was insane; delusional. Why are you still trying to interpret his actions based on the assumption that he was acting rationally?

I am trying to interpret the extremely bizarre behavior, complete with escalating harassment, exhibited by the PLAINTIFF in this case, and the weight it bears on the events.

[Warmblood1]

@CindyB59

I find this concept almost unbelievable.

I have a renter I want off of my property and out of my home. The mere concept that said renter has to find someplace they “approve” of is ludicrous.

As a landlord, I would not have a single fart to give if they were in a hotel, the street or a homeless shelter. Not my problem.

It all reeks of entitlement, doesn’t it? Not a good look, especially when one has to paint themselves as a “victim” in a civil trial.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@SillyHorse

@CurrentlyHorseless

MHG doesn’t represent MBs wishes; she represents her own wishes.

Pure conjecture on your part.

@CurrentlyHorseless

MB was the owner of the training business, and it was on him to clearly articulate that he, not just MHG wanted LK gone.

Nope. When the owner of my barn wants someone gone, the barn manager takes care of it. Stop making things up to suit your flawed narrative,

There is no evidence that MB as owner of the business conveyed to LK through an intermediary agent such as a barn manager that he, MB, wanted LK gone.

In fact, in the civil filing against the police department, the earliest that MBs lawyers allege she was told to leave was Aug 5.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

MHG doesn’t represent MBs wishes; she represents her own wishes.

MB was the owner of the training business, and it was on him to clearly articulate that he, not just MHG wanted LK gone.

MHG could most certainly act as agent on behalf of MB. Yours is a ridiculous argument. As they were a couple being asked to leave is being added to leave.

[ekat]

@Scribbler

I think the timeline of communication around this before and after the shooting is extremely important for establishing LK’s role in the events that followed

I keep coming back to this. Michael, through his attorney, tried to negotiate anything to end this. And when it failed, his attorney sent an eviction notice.

What happened next? Lauren doubled down and called SS which brought CPS to the farm. She wrote a letter of complaint that RG delivered to the town inspectors and fire Marshall, which resulted in Michael and his people sleeping outside on a porch. All while Lauren is posting taunts and threats on Facebook.

It’s nuts to try to pretend that he could have/should have evicted sooner. All that would have done is sped up her reign of terror.

*edited to correct existed to evicted.

[Knights_Mom]

Dear Ms. Kanarek:

Please be advised that your horses need to be removed from this facility by 6 pm on July 31, 2019.

Failure to do so will result in the horses being removed from their stalls and placed in an outside holding area for 24 hours. No services or amenities will be available at that time. The stalls will be padlocked and the barn locked. No food or water will be provided after that vacate time.

Should the horses still remain they will be removed from this facility and you will be notified where you can pick them up.

Sincerely,
MB Dressage