MB update

[ekat]

@eggbutt

I assume they could call her previous instructors to get their opinion on her future in dressage and ability to climb the levels. Both of those trainers are dressage judges, one higher rated; and, one is a gold medal para-Olympian. I can’t imagine either of these women want anything to do with this.

If willing, they might be perfect for her cause. If that’s who she were to choose, if you were MB, who would you have rebut their testimony?

(Just an interesting thought exercise.)

[ekat]

@DownYonder

The fact that she secured her Bronze Medal in the past year or so seems to be good evidence that her riding abilities have NOT suffered unduly and it may be hard to make a convincing argument otherwise.

See, that’s a really good point. And here on CoTH, it makes perfect sense. But, who do you call to explain that to a jury while keeping said jury interested?

[DownYonder]

@ekat

She’s going to need someone that a) can explain Dressage levels, b) where she was at as of Aug 6th in those levels and c) what damage/loss was incurred to that by the incident.

Maybe that’s Ulf? I don’t know.

Ulf resides in Germany and although I am sure he has some understanding of USEF dressage levels, I would think someone more immersed in the US dressage scene would be a better candidate. I do suspect though it may be difficult to find a nationally recognized “expert” that will have a lot of sympathy for her cause. Professionals at that level tend to have a fair amount of respect regarding other high level professionals and may in fact be too repulsed by what she tried to do to MB to have much inclination to help her with her case.

[ekat]

@DownYonder

Ulf resides in Germany and although I am sure he has some understanding of USEF dressage levels, I would think someone more immersed in the US dressage scene would be a better candidate. I do suspect though it may be difficult to find a nationally recognized “expert” that will have a lot of sympathy for her cause. Professionals at that level tend to have a fair amount of respect regarding other high level professionals and may in fact be too repulsed by what she tried to do to MB to have much inclination to help her with her case.

Well that presents a bit of a dilemma on how to get the info to back her claim into the trial. She has to prove the loss, not just by saying so.

It’s easy with wages in this kind of suit. Here’s my last X years of tax returns prior to Aug 2019. Here’s my chosen career’s trajectory and my years left in the workforce. And here’s how Aug 7th resulted in loss of wages, lost time hurting said trajectory. It’s pretty black and white.

(Another disclaimer: yes, we have discussed her work history enough. It’s coming up in the trial. No need to further speculate)

But the claims re: her riding are more nebulous and will require someone getting it across to the jury in a relatable fashion.

[DownYonder]

@ekat

@DownYonder

The fact that she secured her Bronze Medal in the past year or so seems to be good evidence that her riding abilities have NOT suffered unduly and it may be hard to make a convincing argument otherwise.

See, that’s a really good point. And here on CoTH, it makes perfect sense. But, who do you call to explain that to a jury while keeping said jury interested?

Good question! It would have to be someone that can briefly explain the ABC’s of dressage competition in a way that doesn’t make the jurors eyes glaze over - someone that can use analogies to say, golf, or baseball, or tennis, or some other more mainstream sport, so the jurors can begin to relate to the concept of what dressage training and competition entails. I dunno - maybe something like Little League Divisions (except riders are divided by ability/skill level instead of age)?

[smoofox]

@MHM

@smoofox

I find this new tangent of the “pleasure of hating” accusations to just be an overblown squirrel.

Or Squire L? Lol.

Nah. Squire L would not be interested in overwrought hyperbole and rhetoric - as it is not edible.

[ekat]

@DownYonder

Good question! It would have to be someone that can briefly explain the ABC’s of dressage competition in a way that doesn’t make the jurors eyes glaze over - someone that can use analogies to say, golf, or baseball, or tennis, or some other more mainstream sport, so the jurors can begin to relate to the concept of what dressage training and competition entails. I dunno - maybe something like Little League Divisions (except riders are divided by ability/skill level instead of age)?

It’s really interesting to think about, isn’t it? Someone who can break it down like you said above in an interesting, fun way. Ironically, from watching old videos, it seems MB has that personality and ability. Or at least did before the whole Finish the Bastard plot.

[Mersidoats]

@ekat

Well that presents a bit of a dilemma on how to get the info to back her claim into the trial. She has to prove the loss, not just by saying so.

It’s easy with wages in this kind of suit. Here’s my last X years of tax returns prior to Aug 2019. Here’s my chosen career’s trajectory and my years left in the workforce. And here’s how Aug 7th resulted in loss of wages, lost time hurting said trajectory. It’s pretty black and white.

(Another disclaimer: yes, we have discussed her work history enough. It’s coming up in the trial. No need to further speculate)

But the claims re: her riding are more nebulous and will require someone getting it across to the jury in a relatable fashion.

The additional tricky bit about establishing some sort of loss, hampered achievement, etc, is that her horses are just like our horses and get injured. How do you separate her lack of achievement as due to the injuries she received when there is documented evidence that her horses have had medical issues and lameness problems that have stymied training?

[ekat]

@Mersidoats

The additional tricky bit about establishing some sort of loss, hampered achievement, etc, is that her horses are just like our horses and get injured. How do you separate her lack of achievement as due to the injuries she received when there is documented evidence that her horses have had medical issues and lameness problems that have stymied training?

Wow, that is certainly something I had not considered! But absolutely would play a big role. I’m not sure, necessarily, that LK would want to address that as it doesn’t help her but I imagine MB’s team would. So, there’s more testimony that needs to be explained in a friendly way to the jury.

God I hope this jury can take notes.

[DownYonder]

I love your tag line. Can I use it (or something similar)?

[McGurk]

IANAL,

But I think we have the wrong end of the stick here. Quantifying how much the shooting affected her enjoyment of her hobby would come AFTER an MD and/or a PT/OT gave expert opinions on the extent of her disability. And there’s some pretty well established metrics about how you determine that. (At least from a Worker’s Comp and Disability perspective - once you’ve reached maximum improvement through rehab or therapy, they come up with a disability rating.)

And it’s a curious thing; I don’t recall LK talking about the long term effects of the shooting or rehab or limitations after the shooting. She talks about the the hospital stay, and how horrible the damage from the shooting was (not arguing that - it was a life threatening injury and it was horrible) but I don’t recall her or Seeker ever talking about the rehab.

I am guessing (and I’m not a medical professional either) that while the lung injury was immediately life threatening, once healed, there isn’t a lot of long term impact?

There’s also the fact that she got her last qualifying score for her Bronze AFTER the shooting.

JMO, I think it’s going to be hard to make a case that the shooting has derailed her riding career. Maybe there’s stuff that the Kanareks are holding close to their vest about rehab/damage/disability/limitations; but that would be very uncharacteristic.

[Graymaresrule]

Her habit of not showing up for lessons or competitions would also be pertinent

[BrownDerby]

As would be smoking when one has lung damage.

[trubandloki]

@ekat

PLEASE NOTE: I am not trying to bag on LK’s riding ability at all. She has asserted the claim, MB gets to defend the claim. And I am curious who they would use as witnesses since it most likely won’t be my boys Boyd Martin and Phillip Dutton. That’s all.

Didn’t she say in one of her comments on FB (and YT) that she was the most accomplished rider at MB’s barn other than MB?

Edit to use the proper pronoun because my typing sucks and add in the reference to YT.

[ekat]

@trubandloki

Didn’t she say in one of her comments on FB that he was the most accomplished rider at MB’s barn other than MB?

Yes, she did.

[Warmblood1]

@LexInVA

Note the fact that she was drinking sodas while on the stand, whereas other people were drinking water. There is a reason for that and it goes back to her being a drug addict, in that the sugar-laden sodas contain chemical substitutes that stand in for the drugs and they can also be adulterated with drugs such as a mood dampening cocktail or whatever an addict might need to stay in control, as the bottles are not screened by security personnel.

This is too much. She’s drinking soda. Drinking soda is not indicative of drug problems, etc, it’s indicative of liking soda.

[ekat]

@McGurk

JMO, I think it’s going to be hard to make a case that the shooting has derailed her riding career. Maybe there’s stuff that the Kanareks are holding close to their vest about rehab/damage/disability/limitations; but that would be very uncharacteristic

You make some very good points. Especially this. It’s yet another spot where her online ramblings bite her. While she’s happily posting about Pilates and core workouts and riding from early in the morning and all day long, it’s hurting her claim.

The med experts will say whatever they say about her disability. And then someone has to relate said injury/disability to her riding and how she’s suffered a loss. And out there on the internet, she’s telling folks she’s living her dreams. (Actual words. On YT.)

[DownYonder]

@trubandloki

Didn’t she say in one of her comments on FB that he was the most accomplished rider at MB’s barn other than MB?

Who was the “he” this referred to?

[trubandloki]

@ekat

I love him. I keep anxiously awaiting the next installment on the GoFundMe.

Me too!

So far Squire L is definitely my favorite but … Squueeee, I just am excited to see what else there is.

I sure hope the people that check the GoFundMe are keeping an eye on it and will post as soon as they see something.

@DownYonder

someone that can use analogies to say, golf, or baseball, or tennis,

Is there something equal to the the dressage medal program in golf, baseball or tennis?

This part of the trial seems like something very worth them doing a test run to see how best to explain this system in a way that does not bore the jurors but gets across what they want to say.

@ekat

God I hope this jury can take notes.

I hope they are ALLOWED to take notes.

@Warmblood1

Drinking soda is not indicative of drug problems, etc, it’s indicative of liking soda.

Yes!
I drink way too much soda.

@DownYonder

Who was the “he” this referred to?

He is a bad typing error that I will go back and fix. Thank you for pointing it out.

[DownYonder]

@ekat

@eggbutt

I assume they could call her previous instructors to get their opinion on her future in dressage and ability to climb the levels. Both of those trainers are dressage judges, one higher rated; and, one is a gold medal para-Olympian. I can’t imagine either of these women want anything to do with this.

If willing, they might be perfect for her cause. If that’s who she were to choose, if you were MB, who would you have rebut their testimony?

(Just an interesting thought exercise.)

Ulf Möller