MB update

[Warmblood1]

@eggbutt

Interesting it says “maximum security” for this posting but not the general public info.

I believe they list it as “maximum security” in that area online to create a public image of safety. This facility is “super secure” even though there is no variation of security within facilities. When you get to the actual description, it says nothing regarding security levels, etc. because they don’t apply.

[Einhorn]

Exactly, the psychiatric hospitals I’ve been in had the same levels of security, from the expensive voluntary to the state forensic unit to the VA.

[DownYonder]

Question: Does anyone know how often in the U.S. an individual who has been adjudicated “mentally ill” gets sued for an act they committed while “mentally ill”?

[eggbutt]

Exactly!

[Einhorn]

There are so many jurisdictions, v that could be hard to know. But based on how many neighbor disputes there are, I’d say: more than you’d think?

Edited to add: Assuming you’re not talking about the suits where the plaintiff has the MH problem

[DownYonder]

And regarding MB’s upcoming birthday - in addition to a card, also please consider making a donation to the GFM. Every $ counts…

[Einhorn]

@DownYonder

who has been adjudicated “mentally ill” gets sued for an act they committed while “mentally ill”?

I think an important piece is whether the adjudication is known to the plaintiff. Probably fewer of those.

[ekat]

@DownYonder

Question: Does anyone know how often in the U.S. an individual who has been adjudicated “mentally ill” gets sued for an act they committed while “mentally ill”?

Past adjudication doesn’t really matter though. In other words, for the sake of this particular case, it doesn’t matter that the previous jury found Michael NGRI, and most certainly won’t be introduced in the civil trial.

Different standards apply. In the criminal case, in NJ, the standard was:

“ A person is not criminally responsible for conduct if at the time of such conduct he was laboring under such a defect of reason, from disease of the mind as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or if he did know it, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong”.

In the civil case, one of LK’s claims is Negligence. The standard in NJ is what a reasonably prudent person would do. This is from the NJ standard jury instructions on negligence:

“ every person is required to exercise the foresight, prudence and
caution which a reasonably prudent person would exercise under the same or similar circumstances. Negligence then is a departure from that standard of care.”

Edit to add: Michael is certainly raising competency issues with his defenses though. So that will come into play.

Edit #2: Michael is also claiming negligence in his claims against LK. So, that reasonably prudent test will apply to her, as well.

[SillyHorse]

@ekat

I feel like the turtles need names.

Cuff and Link, in a nod to “Rocky,” who prevailed against huge odds.

[ekat]

@SillyHorse

Cuff and Link, in a nod to “Rocky,” who prevailed against huge odds.

Also good names!

[SillyHorse]

Or, because they are box turtles, “Amazon” and “FedEx.” Boxes and boxes and boxes!

[hut-ho78]

@Warmblood1

Re: maximum security psychiatric hospital

Is that opposed to say, a minimum security psychiatric hospital?

In a minimum security psych hospital, do we give the “not as suicidal” patients slightly sharper scissors than say the “super suicidal” patients who do not get scissors at all?

Assuming there is a maximum security psych hospital, what is the medium security hospital like?

I’ll give LK credit for one thing, I’ve never seen someone author such long winded works that have absolutely no substance. The “wait and see”s and the “patient dear”s and the “maximum security psych ward,” it’s all verbal fluff. Meaningless garbage designed to create drama and substance that just doesn’t exist. I have to laugh at the constant “puffing” and bolstering because otherwise it’s just so sad. LK lacks a fundamental understanding and insight to so many elementary things. I think it’s sad that people encourage her delusions and defend her behavior. Rid her of any responsibility. It does her no favors. None at all.

I think there is a vast difference between a psychiatric ward for involuntarily committed patients shown to be a danger to themselves or others and a psychiatric ward for voluntary commitments for depression or other treatable psychiatric issues.

[KurPlexed]

I’m really behind but I think the answer to your question is bc they really really want MB to have a black cloud over his head for the rest of his life but they are totally discounting all of the wonderful things he’s done and how he’s been a huge contributing factor to society at large.

We can argue all day he did this, she did that, but when the chips finally fall everyone can see that he’s a highly functioning contributing human and the other party, not so much. Really that’s what it bills down to.

[hut-ho78]

@Sdel

@hut-ho78

We actually agree. Some of them seem so much like posts here even without the two I can think of that bragged here about posting there.

Yep, two sound like you and CH. None of them sound like me though.

I have not posted on YouTube.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Warmblood1

@CurrentlyHorseless

But Ann Klein Forensic Center is not a private psychiatric facility that takes patients voluntarily committed, is it?

It’s a state psychiatric hospital that serves patients committed via the court system.

That seems like a valid distinction to me.

If you’re going to reply to me, at least have the courtesy of reading the post you are quoting and replying to.

Again, safety protocol is not based on whether the facility is a forensic facility, or if it is a non-forensic facility. Safety protocols are established on the premises that the facility is housing patients who may be a danger to themselves or others. It being forensic, or non-forensic, has nothing to do with this. I don’t know how to make that more clear.

Involuntary commitment at a forensic facility, or involuntary commitment at a private facility, are both committed based on the ruling of a judge. Safety protocols are not determined based on any sort of “criminal” aspect.

It does not matter if someone is homicidal and committed to a forensic center, or if someone is suicidal and voluntarily commits to a private hospital, the safety protocols are essentially going to be the same.

You keep trying to assert that there is a criminal aspect to MB’s evaluation. And in doing so, you are making erroneous comments regarding psychiatric facilities. Perhaps if you don’t know about something, you shouldn’t make statements pretending you do.

No, I’ve agreed all along that based on the NGRI verdict, he did not commit a crime.

[Danvers]

But the big competitions are in Wellington - professionally I would think he needs to be there IF he wants to continue in the big leagues - of which he is part of.

[hut-ho78]

@Warmblood1

@CurrentlyHorseless

Well, I’d think there is a legitimate distinction between a forensic psychiatric hospital like Ann Klein which handles patients committed via the court system due to a NGRI verdict, as compared to other psychiatric hospitals handling patients who become patients voluntarily.

Under the circumstances, MB cannot simply discharge himself. Maybe that’s what she meant.

There is NOT. Security measures put in place have absolutely nothing to do with a verdict, not if the patient is voluntary or involuntary, including private hospitals who take involuntary patients on a regular basis. They have to do with the safety of any and all patients, regardless why they are there, and those working within the hospitals. There is no variation in security in psychiatric hospitals; there is no minimum, medium, or maximum security psychiatric hospital and assuming so is a gross misunderstanding of why the security protocols are established in the first place.

Psychiatric hospitals, forensic or non-forensic, are not punitive. Variations in security in jails and prisons are based on the crimes committed as well as the behavior of the inmate in the facility, which can indeed be punitive.

Also, patients, whether voluntarily committed or involuntarily committed, at any forensic or non-forensic psych hospital, can not just discharge themselves whenever they wish. You can not just walk out of any psychiatric hospital. Once admitted, you are under the care of the doctor assigned to you. You must request the ability to leave, and even then, it can take several days for all the steps to take place for that to happen. Even if voluntarily committed, your doctor may disagree with you leaving and the patient still has to leave “against medical advice.”

Why are you even trying to justify what she means and her interpretation of things? Are you LK? Rhetorical. Your justification of her meaning seems like an overstep. Why do you do this?

Voluntarily committed patients can walk out the door any time they please. They are not locked in.

[eggbutt]

@KurPlexed

I’m really behind but I think the answer to your question is bc they really really want MB to have a black cloud over his head for the rest of his life but they are totally discounting all of the wonderful things he’s done and how he’s been a huge contributing factor to society at large.

We can argue all day he did this, she did that, but when the chips finally fall everyone can see that he’s a highly functioning contributing human and the other party, not so much. Really that’s what it bills down to.

Absolutely! A success in so very many ways and liked by hundreds and supported by thousands. He is an icon who will return to his pre-2018 glory in no time, if that is his goal, with tremendous love and support.

LK will be like “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane”, re-litigating her version of fantasy into cyberspace for the rest of her life. What a shame she does not have the ability to have the support system Barisone has. It really, really is quite sad

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

Voluntarily committed patients can walk out the door any time they please. They are not locked in.

Are you sure about this?

I understood that was not the case. Not just from the informative posts by @Warmblood1 who appears to work at a facility.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@hut-ho78

We actually agree. Some of them seem so much like posts here even without the two I can think of that bragged here about posting there.

Yep, two sound like you and CH. None of them sound like me though.

I have never posted comments on YT.