[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7652146]
Ravel was gelded years ago.[/QUOTE]
In the context of this thread, Ravel doesn’t mean Stefan Peter’s ride.
Does anyone know if breeding stallions in racing are given extra steroids to keep them functional?
I think I read something about that, maybe in the book Stud: Adventures in Breeding by Kevin Conley. Conley asked a manager at a breeding farm about using a Viagra type drug and his response was witty (too bad I can’t quote it because my interpretation is not): basically he said that it was absolutely too dangerous. I think it had been tried with disastrous results.
As for hormones, I wonder? Maybe on a horse with a low libido?
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7652202]
In the context of this thread, Ravel doesn’t mean Stefan Peter’s ride.
Does anyone know if breeding stallions in racing are given extra steroids to keep them functional?[/QUOTE]
Sorry! I didn’t go back and re-read the thread.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7652202]
In the context of this thread, Ravel doesn’t mean Stefan Peter’s ride.
Does anyone know if breeding stallions in racing are given extra steroids to keep them functional?[/QUOTE]
Thanks I answered the post then read further and found out it was a different horse.
As far as steroids, I would suspect they are but have no personal knowledge.
The other influence people may be missing is the influence of the dam. When I was a vet student and doing equine field service , whenever we dealt with a difficult foal the groom would exclaim" you should see what the mother does to it"
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7652202]
In the context of this thread, Ravel doesn’t mean Stefan Peter’s ride.
Does anyone know if breeding stallions in racing are given extra steroids to keep them functional?[/QUOTE]
Thanks I answered the post then read further and found out it was a different horse.
As far as steroids, I would suspect they are but have no personal knowledge.
The other influence people may be missing is the influence of the dam. When I was a vet student and doing equine field service , whenever we dealt with a difficult foal the groom would exclaim" you should see what the mother does to it"
Wow. A five-year-old thread bumped up. Have to say I missed this the first time around and it is an interesting read. How did you find it, Dani?
Im glad it did get resurrected. Its an interesting read indeed … 
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7652202]
Does anyone know if breeding stallions in racing are given extra steroids to keep them functional?[/QUOTE]
Not just steroids, but extra steroids? Honestly, I find your constant assertion that all Thorougbreds are on steroids all the time, offensive. Especially since you’ve been told repeatedly that it isn’t true.
But to answer your question: functional in what way? Thoroughbred stallions don’t race while they are breeding. And steroids are illegal for racing anyway.
From what I know about steroids, they depress the libido rather than enhance it so they certainly wouldn’t help with breeding.
LaurieB - I know at the place I kept my stallions at before we got our farm, testosterone supplements and injections WERE given to some stallions that came in for training that had low / “0” libido. In most cases they were TB and SB stallions that had been beaten within an inch of their lives for showing any interest in any mare in their view. Wore cages and brushes and God knows what to prevent them from “playing with themselves” and from exhibiting ANY stallion like behavior at all so once they were retired and a mare was in view and close by it was a helluva’n ordeal to get them used to the new facts of life - that stallion like behavior was encouraged and rewarded and they WERE allowed to drop that penis as many times a day as they wanted and do whatever they wanted with it and no stiff brushes would punish them if they did
Sometimes the supplements worked well and worked quickly and in other cases it was really labour and time intensive and it was a matter of taking months to get them over it and overcoming the mental block issues that were so deeply ingrained in them
When we went to Three Chimneys and saw Dynaformer, we were told that he was a mean s.o.b., but on visiting days the other stallions were paraded out for us all to see close up…my travelling friend, a race horse person, said she thought they were all on tranquilizers they were so good and quiet (not so, I’m sure).
That stallion barn is sure a gorgeous design.
Most stallions do have a very unnatural life, though. The lthinking on stallion management has changed since days of yore.
[QUOTE=LaurieB;7653128]
Not just steroids, but extra steroids? Honestly, I find your constant assertion that all Thorougbreds are on steroids all the time, offensive. Especially since you’ve been told repeatedly that it isn’t true.
But to answer your question: functional in what way? Thoroughbred stallions don’t race while they are breeding. And steroids are illegal for racing anyway.
From what I know about steroids, they depress the libido rather than enhance it so they certainly wouldn’t help with breeding.[/QUOTE]
It’s not me that believes all TBs are filled with injected steroids these days. I know they are illegal for racing in the US now, but that’s a very recent rule–within the past five years or so. Heck, the Brits have recently instituted a rule that no horse who has ever been given steroids in its life will be allowed to race there. You know as well as I do that anabolic steroids (synthetics) were very common for sales yearlings not so very long ago.
Horses naturally produce steroids (hormones), which is why I used the word “extra”.
The job of stallions is breeding, which means sex to the point that a human would probably be worn out and hate sex after a while. The libido does get depressed. That would affect the breeding function. And unless they are shuttle stallions, their job is limited to a few months of the year. Added hormones like testosterone might perk up the libido. The reason that I asked is that steroids lead to steroid influenced behavior, which might explain some of the “meanest stallions” of the past.
Interesting New Bolton article on steroid levels in the horse population. http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/49/Soma%20et%20all%202008.pdf
Raises a question of how shuttle stallions are able to perform, since the natural levels of male hormones peak in breeding season, then drop by about 2/3 in the winter.
And there is this:
Boldenone sulphate that was considered endogenous has been
detected in the urine of the intact male horses with urinary
concentrations ranging from 0.1 to 1.27 ng?mL (Hoet al.,
2004). To date no boldenone has been quantified in the plasma
of the intact male horse or are we aware of metabolic pathways
suggested for the conversion of testosterone to boldenone in the
testis of the horse.
A New Bolton article from 2006 which says that anabolic steroids were present in 61.7% of race horse plasma samples.
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/49/Soma%20et%20al%202007%20anabolic%20steroids.pdf
To go along with True Colours point:
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/49/SEAM_ISSR_2005.pdf
Another New Bolton article from 1999 which recommends hormone injections for slow starting, novice stallions and the same protocols for low libido, experienced ones. http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/49/99libido.pdf
And a New Bolton article on modifying behavior in unruly breeding stallions, which says that about 10% exhibit “unruly breeding behavior”.
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/49/95ModifyU.pdf
It does not recommend trying to retrain “savage” stallions.
Unlike simply unruly or misbehaved stallions, savage (so-called killer) stallions viciously attack handlers ot other horses.2 For savage stallions, we advise euthanasia rather than ordinary handling or retraining. If owners insist
on breeding savage stallions, we recommend management in bull-stud conditions, in which people are at minimal risk of direct interaction with the
stallion. In our experience, most savage stallions are described as well-mannered in breeding situations, with generally calm, compliant, and gentle temperaments. Vicious attacks are sporadic, sudden, and usually unprovoked and are not necessarily associated with breeding.
Here’s the abstract of a Dutch study that reviews pharmacological agents that reputedly have positive effects on breeding. Unfortunately the article is not free.
http://www.animalreproductionscience.com/article/S0378-4320(05)00184-3/abstract
No one seems to think that using Regu-mate is a bad thing at all.
Those of us that have Hail To Reason bred eventers have commented on other threads about how opinionated they can be. Not mean, but definitely having thier own view of things. Most of my HTR breds right now are mares (1 gelding), and they can be tough enough in thier own ways, that I can see a stallion like that (opinions AND a sex drive??? And a less than sociable lifestyle? Yikes!) being tough, manhandled and developing a ‘mean’ streak. Dynaformer, Halo, both being HTR bred.
Some stallions are just very territorial. That can come across as mean, but isn’t really.
One stallion I handled years ago was fine to be around and ride, but heaven help the critter that made its way into his stall or paddock.
A golden retriever learned that lesson the hard way. It crawled into the paddock and studly grabbed it by the scruff of the neck and threw it over the fence. He also was known for drowning various smaller animals in his water.
I owned a filly of his and once found a rat drowned in her water. Not sure exactly what occured, but could imagine that she tossed it in there.
No, they don’t get steroids.
Most stallions do not need any encouragement. Adding anabolic steroids to a normal stallion not only will depress libido and sperm count, it can make the horse impossible to handle. You might see it used therapeutically though.
[QUOTE=ReSomething;4525132]
You know, this may be an urban legend, as I remember a story so similar (and also never knew names and details), about the second stallion jumping the fences and fighting the first which was savaging the owner. In the story as I read it, the second, beloved, stallion did not survive and the first was put down and found to have a brain tumor. Truly a memorable and dreadful story.[/QUOTE]
Daufuskie (sp?) Pirate was the second stallion. He was not put down until years later of age (says cancer on PQ). He was actually about the same age or younger as Aly T. I do not think Aly T had a brain tumor, but I don’t recall for sure. He was euthanized. They tested him for rabies, he was negative. He just snapped. I don’t recall they ever had any indication he was hard to handle nor had he given them trouble previously if I remember the article right. Anyway she was leading the horse in from the pasture (no visitors, in fact only a couple of workers were there) and he just snapped, grabbed her by the arm and shook her around nearly severing it right there, and proceeded to try and meld her into the ground. She did lose the arm. The two workers did their best to beat him off and in the meantime the other stallion (DP) jumped out of his paddock and attacked Aly T, chasing him down the road and finally pinning him in a field. He was so wound up it took them quite a while to get him caught and off guard. Turns out the woman had hand raised DP and he didn’t appreciate that new horse trying to kill his mom I guess. Sadly the woman (wish I could remember her name) never quite recovered from the attack, she finally gave up horses, just couldn’t stand working around them; they divorced and she died a few years later of something else (cancer?) DP outlived her by more than a few years I thought. I used to have that article and a pic. of him but I don’t know if I still do. I do not know if the owner listed here is the same as the one that got attacked. http://www.pedigreequery.com/daufuskie+pirate
Here is ALy T http://www.pedigreequery.com/aly+t
Interesting story about a son of DP: http://www.paulickreport.com/features/ottb-showcase/ottb-showcase-pirates-bid-a-k-a-pirate/
[QUOTE=Arab/WBGirl;4518732]
Wasn’t there a TB stallion that Monty Roberts had at his Flag is Up Farm farm in California I think that was so incredibly viscious that Monty designed a series of gates/chutes to move him around? Also they had to cover the mare with leather blankets to keep him from savaging her when he was being used for breeding. I think they also had to use two poles attached to either side of his halter to keep him from getting to handlers which is why the series of gates/chutes was devised. I cant remember what his name was but I remember reading that story some years ago. While I can see keeping a somewhat difficult horse around that you have to be on your toes with at every moment when handling, but who passes on his good performance as after all, the bottom line is important if you are going to be in business. But regardless of how much a horse like that brought in in stud fees, all it would take is one dead or severely injured employee or visitor and all that profit would be wiped out plus some from the lawsuit that would occur. That horse would have gotten a bullet in the head and been dog food. Like I said, some difficulty in a valuable breeding stallion who is bringing home the bacon I can understand. All out savage and intentionally trying to kill a human with every interaction = glue.
Dawn[/QUOTE]
That was In Tissar, a real bad ass. They rigged up a chute system so they could run him to the paddock, to his stall, and to the breeding shed without having to touch him. Poor mare had to face him alone! But they did rig her up with protective covering and maybe a chute so he could only get at her from behind. Look at the names close up in his pedigree! http://www.pedigreequery.com/in+tissar Half to champion Landaluce.
Well, Im late to party by a few years but…
We had one STB stallion, not anything really notable. He was recovering from an injury and was basically on 24/7 stall rest for a year - towards the end he did get a bit of turn out. He was a pretty grouchy SOB, and rightly so - in pain, stuck inside. He bite and kicked but wasn’t too horrendous as far as “rogue stallions” go. Once I bonded with him he was a total snuggle bug: the long time horse trainer would ask me to go get him from his stall, because the stallion always attempted to attack him. Me? I’d point to the back corner and he’d go and then wait for loving.
We had another stallion in the barn who we refered to as a “gelding with nuts” - I’d much rather have a total beginner handle him than some of the other horses in the barn, regardless of gender.
The worst horse, however, was a mare. I am a pretty competent horse person and not much “scares me” but that horse was a piece of work. If there was only one person in the barn, she did not get touched - no turn out, no stall mucked, feed tossed over the door and watered through the bars. I often wonder about what happened to her - imo she should have been put down. Poor girl just was not right in the head, and you could tell she was unhappy.
Was Kris S mentioned at all? He’s my stallions sire and from my uunderstanding, Kris S was a nasty SOB. Although he is not popular or famous, I’m told his nastitude was the reason why he didn’t sire as many foals or race as often as his handlers would have liked.IIRC, he would run down anyone he didnt like, which was nearly everyone.
My stallion ,who is only a stallion in conversation as he is gelded but still acts studdy so it’s easier to call him a stallion so people understand who I’m talking about, will definitely inform you that you do not pass his inspection. While he is also very opinionated, he is not out to kill anyone, unless you are a goat or dog out for his food, then it is on in his mind.
Chachie, Kris S is by Roberto, and is a brother of the aforementioned Dynaformer (and ‘nephew’ to Halo). I’ve had plenty of horses closely bred to him, and never had an issue. (See my post above about Hail to Reason bred horses)
