Michael/ Lauren civil trial update February 9

[iberianfan]

I can speak a little about insurance and lawsuits. In my neck of the woods, insurance is usually not discoverable. Plaintiff can ask for coverage amounts, etc. But will not get it. Whether the attorney is paid by insurance or the party probably depends on the terms of the policy and the amount of deductible. There are many legal firms that are “insurance defense” firms and that is what they do. The insurance company will hire them to defend an insured in a lawsuit. In that case, the client is the insured, not the company.

Sometimes an insurance company will allow the insured to hire their attorney of choice. In that case, that attorney may have to adjust their fee to what the IC would pay. Or, any hourly amount over the permitted hourly rate will not go towards the deductible.

Or any other arrangement the IC wishes to make.

Bottom line is, under NJ law as cited above,the jury will not learn if SGF has insurance.

[iberianfan]

And, since I just looked them up, Schenk, Price, et al, do not hold themselves out to be “insurance defense”. It is one of their multiple practice areas. And they have a lot of practice areas.

[DownYonder]

@trubandloki

My guess, only a guess, is that when going thru stuff to make sure all his cases were properly passed along it was realized that this document was never issued.

That makes sense. OTOH, since the document stated “ordered on this date” (1/20), one would think that he would have noticed that he was ordering something to happen in the past.

@trubandloki

Or, that type of paperwork is not the type of that would be on the public site for us to see.
Kind of like we have never seen the letter/email that Jonathan Kanarek (@Inigo-montoya) sent privately to the judge. We know it exists, the other lawyers received it, but it is not uploaded for all to see.

I wouldn’t expect to see the email JK sent to Sceusi (although I would love to!). But I would think that since the case management order issued by Sceusi mentioned that the “discovery status letter” was supposed to be uploaded, I would think it would be there. And as you pointed out, since the order didn’t go out in a timely manner, that may explain why the requested letter wasn’t filed.

[eggbutt]

I’d love to have a dollar for every rumored nefarious dealings the Kanareks have to obtaining money that has been mentioned over the years. I suspect there is a nugget of truth in most of the rumors which causes tremendous angst to the glorious family. Perhaps there are many as yet publicly unknown participants in their financial activities that aren’t pleased with the kettle of fish they find themselves linked to. That good old Karma clock is ticking!

[jvanrens]

@MorganSercu

Perhaps one of the vacuumers was late uploading it?

It was dated yesterday, so if that one particular vacuumer was late uploading, they were also really late writing it up!

[Knights_Mom]

@BigMama1

@Knights_Mom

Yes, “The Bank” as in where the $ comes from.

If the word you speak of is accurate, then that opens up whole new probable and likely scenarios. And, if true, it’s adds a whole new dynamic to the handling of the case by police.

Opens up a whole new vat of worms.

I’m sure somebody is going to start getting nastygrams just for mentioning the hypothetical possibility!

Well if it’s me, I’ll share it.

[MorganSercu]

Blasphemy, I know. But they aren’t ALL as experienced and efficient as you were.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@eggbutt

I’d love to have a dollar for every rumored nefarious dealings the Kanareks have to obtaining money that has been mentioned over the years. I suspect there is a nugget of truth in most of the rumors which causes tremendous angst to the glorious family. Perhaps there are many as yet publicly unknown participants in their financial activities that aren’t pleased with the kettle of fish they find themselves linked to. That good old Karma clock is ticking!

The interesting thing about the family is that Kirby and the two sisters have resumes and employment histories that seem very normal, professional, and are easily looked up by anyone who is curious.

But La la and Pop Pop are an entirely different matter. It’s very hard to find any documented employment, much less the name of an employer. And that’s a bit strange, given all the claims of wealth, the extent of LKs high dollar amateur rider horse hobby, etc.

I will admit… this aspect of the Kanarek case has always puzzled me. And I have been waiting and waiting for either La La or Pop Pop to be deposed… because there is no doubt that lawyers will ask lots of questions during discovery about their background and any and all sources of income.

Oh well… onto February.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Knights_Mom

Well if it’s me, I’ll share it.

Me too.

I entered these discussions after La la had exited the forums, so I never had the pleasure of receiving a direct message. But the bluster and reaction each time anyone pokes and prods at La la’s and Pop pop’s employment history and connections has been very very interesting.

They don’t like it when these questions get asked.

[trubandloki]

You have to admit, they have done an impressive job of making it not clear where they earned their ‘unlimited funds’.
So, they are good at something…

Too bad that something does not include being an upstanding citizen and all that stuff.

Upstanding citizen comment is my opinion based on family criminal history, family being unwilling to answer a basic subpoena, Ignoring a court order, etc.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Certain members of the K family do have substantial arrest records. That’s a fact. Which probably makes it challenging to find regular employment, given that many employers run basic background checks theses days.

Lala’s had a lengthy arrest record since her young adult years.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Hmmmm . Looks like another good old “team K” member has come online and is going to join the conversation.

Timing is rather interesting.

[Sdel]

Upset that other lawyers have set up opposing opinions to their previous claims that LK will get a big $$ payout from insurance? Hey, they were a miss on the slam dunk guilty verdict as well.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Who knows. They could be ready to bull dog that issue and claim YET AGAIN that it’s a given SGF will pay a settlement to lollipop because of the gunshot and insurance.

Or they could be getting ready to bluster with a string of scathing “how dare you speculate about someone’s professional history and connections “ statements.

My guess is that it’s one or the other.

[Sdel]

Wax poetic about the new lawyer’s reputation?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I don’t know if they can brag non stop about the new lawyers. They’ve already claimed to have a team of “world class blue chip lawyers” on speed dial advising them on key issues like privilege, despite allowing RG to sit in on meetings in EDs office (oops!), and of course there was Bruce (New Jersey’s finest)…

What accolades are left to tout? New Jersey’s second finest?

With all that said, the new law firm comes across as more professional to me than Bruce did. All joking aside, I sincerely hope everyone caught up in this mess has competent and ethical legal counsel. That will help push the situation to a rational resolution somewhat sooner… and that is the healthiest possible outcome for all involved.

[SierraMist]

@iberianfan

Bottom line is, under NJ law as cited above,the jury will not learn if SGF has insurance.

Never say never. There are exceptions to the rule: “…this rule does not require the exclusion of evidence of insurance against liability when offered for another purpose, such as proof of agency, ownership, control, bias, or prejudice of a witness.” Although I agree that generally the rule is to prevent attorneys from informing juries about whether or not the parties have insurance coverage. The rule also applies in that the defense can’t inform that the victim has medical insurance coverage or financial means to cover their injuries.

My personal curiosity about MB’s insurance coverage is whether or not, as a professional, he even carried any insurance. He has shown, through the evidence at the criminal trial and some beginning to come out in this civil case, that he lacked in professional and business conduct. For instance, crude leases, verbal contracts, bartering. It’s possible he didn’t even bother to carry professional liability and the only insurance available is general liability through SGF.

And if he does have insurance coverage and the insurance company is allowing his criminal attorneys to represent him in the civil matter for which his insurance will pay the attorney fees, then why is MB having Lara Osborn beg for money for attorney fees? I think gofundme and other crowd sourcing to raise funds can be so helpful for many people in dire situations, but it’s a little offensive to me when someone who many people claim was a brilliant businessman worth millions of dollars is begging for money to fund his lifestyle and pay his attorney fees and costs for a legal matter that he is responsible for (or at least responsible for in part) - i.e. allowing crazy to occur over a period of weeks/months and then he ends up shooting LK. It would appear that MB wants other people to fork out their hard earned money rather than MB using his own funds or liquidating some assets to fund his legal woes.

I also feel a little sorry for LO as it’s possible she’s been manipulated to take care of MB and all his issues, take care of his farm in his absence, pay all his bills, etc. She even mentioned that she is paying for things out of her own funds. She sold her farm in order to move into MB’s farm and manage it while trying to keep her own business afloat. She didn’t have a prior personal relationship with MB. That only developed while he was in jail. So many gullible women have fallen for some guy in jail or prison and end up losing everything they have taking care of some other guy’s problems. It’s a psychological phenomenon featured in books, tv interviews and documentaries - why some women are attracted to men behind bars.

If MB has insurance, he should be grateful for the NGRI verdict as that is the only way any insurance coverage will pay in a settlement or verdict. Otherwise the insurance companies could flat out deny any coverage at all. Some insurance companies have tried to exclude coverage in NGRI cases, but case law has seen reversal on appeal. NGRI will allow insurance coverage but NGRI will not allow a disregard for liability to a victim as case law has shown in the past.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That’s an impressive effort to shift the narrative, and reframe all the background context to make it seem like MB is a manipulative sociopath, LO a victim of some sort, and anyone donating to the GFM for legal expenses is a gullible patsy.

The problem with this effort is that:

1. Michael was a very well respected and well liked professional, with a career spanning decades. Your accusations about a lack of professionalism are well crafted… but they are at odds with real life and the professional and character witnesses who testified on his behalf in the criminal trial

2. Deininger has always represented MB in the civil matter, and is a civil attorney. He was simply part of the criminal trial team - and frankly he did a good job when questioning certain witnesses. But… the current legal team representing Michael clearly is not 100% criminal, as you have characterized it. And you know this. You overplayed that point and come off as disingenuous.

3. As for MB “allowing crazy to occur over a period of weeks/months” … that’s an interesting statement. Don’t you think LK should be responsible for some of her own poor choices? I do. Just because she chooses to engage in high risk behavior, and bad things happen, doesn’t mean she is automatically entitled to some of financial compensation. It MAY have played out that way in prior “life situations” she found herself in… that’s just a guess on my part… but in this situation, there is the issue of her crazy actions contributing to the entire situation that eventually ended in a shooting. And that’s a problem. So… insurance or no insurance, I think LKs payday will be limited at best.

[Sdel]

@SierraMist

He has shown, through the evidence at the criminal trial and some beginning to come out in this civil case, that he lacked in professional and business conduct. For instance, crude leases, verbal contracts, bartering. It’s possible he didn’t even bother to carry professional liability and the only insurance available is general liability through SGF.

This would be in direct contradiction to testimony of Steven Tarshis and other evidence. Besides, shouldn’t LK already know? She was the one going through MB’s office, and one assumes, his financial documents that were stored there while she was looking for a way to forge his signature.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Ambitious_Kate

According to I’dratherbe, If there is an insurance company, someone’s got to prove that the IC has any kind of liablilty, if there is an IC, before its ever admitted into evidence in this trial. If an insurance company doesn’t have any liability about what happened on the farm, the jury will never know whether there is or isn’t one.

I don’t think that’s what I’dratherbe said.

SGF is one of the defendants. If SGF has liability insurance, then the insurance company is on the hook to pay any judgement against SGF if SGF is found liable in the trial.

I would not be shocked if MB or MBD did not have liability insurance, but I would be shocked if SGF as the owner of the real estate did not have liability insurance.