Michael/ Lauren civil trial update February 9

[LilRanger]

The language used to describe guardianship/conservatorship is decided purely on the laws of each state. Some call everything a guardianship (guardian of person, guardian of estate) some call everything conservatorship (conservator of person/conservator of estate) and some use both terms (guardian of person/conservator of estate).
Minor guardianships are to take the place of a parent and generally expire naturally when the person turns 18, and can include a financial element, depending on the situation and laws of the state.

Trusts can be created either by private parties or by court orders, again, depending on what is happening.

Again, each state makes laws regarding these subjects and they do vary widely in language and even oversight depending on the particular state’s laws, so generally every is correct, if they know their local laws, but will sound wrong to another person from another jurisdiction.

On the issue of adults under court ordered limitations, there is usually a requirement of some evidence the proposed protected person can’t safely manage their finances which has to be more than “they are bad with money”. It has to be more like they throw 100 dollar bills out of a car window and are surprised when those bills don’t turn into butterflies and fly back to the bank account.

All guardian/conservators in the US are appointed by a court, but there are other ways outside the judicial system to gain/give control to another, but it is again state dependant.

Edited to add: my understanding is that a person cannot consent to a guardian or conservator, but I could be wrong on that.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@trubandloki

@hut-ho78

@LexInVA

@DownYonder

What kind of circumstances would result in an adult being placed under a conservatorship? Wasn’t there a recent big deal made about an entertainer (Brittany Spears?) being under the long-time conservatorship of her father?

I am really just curious as I don’t know anything about WHY these types of situations arise except in obvious cases where the individual is so severely compromised mentally or physically that they absolutely cannot manage their own affairs. But why are adults who are capable of living on their own and carrying on reasonably “normal” lives placed in a conservatorship? Is it always something that is forced on them legally (i.e., by court order)? Or do they sometimes willingly agree to place themselves in those situations?

Based on what we know of her personal history, Lauren Kanarek is the textbook example of someone who could be placed under conservatorship or guardianship or both.

Example where conservator is needed, but guardian is not: Lauren K. was in a serious auto accident, where she sustained head injuries. After the accident, Lauren lived in her parents’ basement, went to Temple, played 3D-chess with homeless people, and walked around the town all on her own. She has no ability to do math or handle personal finances and expenses, however, and had a conservator handle the Disability payments, invest it, pay her rent, and send her a small amount of spending money each month.

Example where guardian is needed, but conservator is not: Lauren K. had a massive stroke and brain damage from a narcotics overdose and was rendered incapable of rational thought or actions. As a result, she was placed in a supervised care facility. Because Lauren had no assets or income beyond Disability payments and no personal expenses or finances, she did not need a conservator to make her financial decisions, but she did need a guardian to make her medical decisions.

Did both of these things really happen to LK with the physical damage? If so, how many people posting here knew this? Did coth know this? 48 hours? Brain injuries from a car accident and a stroke from an overdose?

Hut, they are made up examples of what a conservator or guardian are. They are not real life things.

Read the bolded sentence in the post by LexInVa. She asserts that LK “is the textbook example” of someone would could be placed under guardianship or conservatorship, based on “what we know of her personal history”.

Given that preamble, when she then comes up with “examples” specifically referring to LK, as opposed to a hypothetical someone, I first read it as Hut-Ho did, as assertions of “what we know of LKs personal history” that makes her “a textbook example” of someone who needed a conservatorship.

I did see the ‘it’s just hypothetical’ angle soon after.

There is no reason to think that LK is in a conservatorship or guardianship

[BrownDerby]

@DownYonder

Re Gary Busey - his portrayal of Commander Krill in Under Seige always struck me as someone who didn’t need to stretch very far as an actor to portray someone who was cray-cray.

FWIW he had a serious TBI from his accident. Had to relearn how to walk, talk, eat etc. He lobbied against CA’s law for mandatory helmets for motorcyclists. He does not believe anything is wrong with him.

[MHM]

@LilRanger

All guardian/conservators in the US are appointed by a court, but there are other ways outside the judicial system to gain/give control to another, but it is again state dependant.

Yes, lots of people arrange to do such things to help out their parents as they get older and have issues with keeping track of finances, etc.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

There is no reason to think that LK is in a conservatorship or guardianship

If you say so. However many of us see a middle aged former drug addict who doesn’t seem to have control over her own finances and whose father fights all her battles and makes living arrangements for her as pretty good reasons to wonder whether there is a conservatorship. To each their own.

[haleybot]

I personally know from a conversation I had with LK ( during the period i worked for her) was that she had to keep the total price for purchase and importing a horse to no more than 20K, because anything over that she had to get her father involved…

[eggbutt]

@haleybot

I personally know from a conversation I had with LK ( during the period i worked for her) was that she had to keep the total price for purchase and importing a horse to no more than 20K, because anything over that she had to get her father involved…

Is that why daddy got so involved in the purchase of Jay-T?

[MorganSercu]

What are the odds that she was telling the truth? This is Lauren Kanarek we’re discussing after all.

[Graymaresrule]

@BrownDerby

@DownYonder

Re Gary Busey - his portrayal of Commander Krill in Under Seige always struck me as someone who didn’t need to stretch very far as an actor to portray someone who was cray-cray.

FWIW he had a serious TBI from his accident. Had to relearn how to walk, talk, eat etc. He lobbied against CA’s law for mandatory helmets for motorcyclists. He does not believe anything is wrong with him.

He stared in one of my favorite movies, Big Wednesday, 1978

[haleybot]

Totally could have been a lie, but, she was pretty adamant that they had to be under 20k imported because she didn’t want her dad involved…I have to say I actually believed her on that statement.

[eggbutt]

I believe it too!

[MHM]

I am not that familiar with the market, but that does not sound like a lot of money, especially when it needs to include the cost to import it. The flights for horses are not very cheap. Plus the quarantine costs would eat into that number as well.

[trubandloki]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@trubandloki

@hut-ho78

@LexInVA

@DownYonder

What kind of circumstances would result in an adult being placed under a conservatorship? Wasn’t there a recent big deal made about an entertainer (Brittany Spears?) being under the long-time conservatorship of her father?

I am really just curious as I don’t know anything about WHY these types of situations arise except in obvious cases where the individual is so severely compromised mentally or physically that they absolutely cannot manage their own affairs. But why are adults who are capable of living on their own and carrying on reasonably “normal” lives placed in a conservatorship? Is it always something that is forced on them legally (i.e., by court order)? Or do they sometimes willingly agree to place themselves in those situations?

Based on what we know of her personal history, Lauren Kanarek is the textbook example of someone who could be placed under conservatorship or guardianship or both.

Example where conservator is needed, but guardian is not: Lauren K. was in a serious auto accident, where she sustained head injuries. After the accident, Lauren lived in her parents’ basement, went to Temple, played 3D-chess with homeless people, and walked around the town all on her own. She has no ability to do math or handle personal finances and expenses, however, and had a conservator handle the Disability payments, invest it, pay her rent, and send her a small amount of spending money each month.

Example where guardian is needed, but conservator is not: Lauren K. had a massive stroke and brain damage from a narcotics overdose and was rendered incapable of rational thought or actions. As a result, she was placed in a supervised care facility. Because Lauren had no assets or income beyond Disability payments and no personal expenses or finances, she did not need a conservator to make her financial decisions, but she did need a guardian to make her medical decisions.

Did both of these things really happen to LK with the physical damage? If so, how many people posting here knew this? Did coth know this? 48 hours? Brain injuries from a car accident and a stroke from an overdose?

Hut, they are made up examples of what a conservator or guardian are. They are not real life things.

Read the bolded sentence in the post by LexInVa. She asserts that LK “is the textbook example” of someone would could be placed under guardianship of conservatorship, based on “what we know of her personal history”.

Given that preamble, when she then comes up with “examples” specifically referring to LK, as opposed to a hypothetical someone, I first read it as Hut-Ho did, as assertions of “what we know of LKs personal history” that makes her “a textbook example” of someone who needed a conservatorship.

I did see the ‘it’s just hypothetical’ angle soon after.

There is no reason to think that LK is in a conservatorship or guardianship

Bold in CH’s last sentence added by me.

Well, except the part that a middle aged woman has stated that her Daddy is in control of her money.

[eggbutt]

Well, the price is one thing and then the transport and quarantine would be independent from the cost of the horse. So she could spend $19,999 for the purchase and daddy wouldn’t know and then spend a couple thousand in transport and quarantine and, again, daddy wouldn’t have to be involved. This entire family manipulates everyone, including and probably especially, each other!

[MHM]

@haleybot

I personally know from a conversation I had with LK ( during the period i worked for her) was that she had to keep the total price for purchase and importing a horse to no more than 20K

I took this comment from Haleybot to mean that the $20,000 had to include everything, but that was just my impression of it.

Either way, that does not sound like a huge amount of money to import a horse with aspirations to make it to the Olympic team. Or whatever.

[Mersidoats]

Not even in the realm of international quality, unless it’s an embryo.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

There is no reason to think that LK is in a conservatorship or guardianship

If you say so. However many of us see a middle aged former drug addict who doesn’t seem to have control over her own finances and whose father fights all her battles and makes living arrangements for her as pretty good reasons to wonder whether there is a conservatorship. To each their own.

It’s the “narrative” of Eggbutt and others that JK “fights all her battles” and “makes living arrangements for her” and that he threatened MB to force MB to let her live in the farmhouse.

I’m not at all convinced any of that is true.

[MHM]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

There is no reason to think that LK is in a conservatorship or guardianship

If you say so. However many of us see a middle aged former drug addict who doesn’t seem to have control over her own finances and whose father fights all her battles and makes living arrangements for her as pretty good reasons to wonder whether there is a conservatorship. To each their own.

It’s the “narrative” of Eggbutt and others that JK “fights all her battles” and “makes living arrangements for her” and that he threatened MB to force MB to let her live in the farmhouse.

I’m not at all convinced any of that is true.

That’s fine. You can watch whatever movie you want in your head. Even if you’re the only one in the theater.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@trubandloki

Well, except the part that a middle aged woman has stated that her Daddy is in control of her money.

I don’t remember her stating that.

In the trial, she said that he wrote the checks for her board at HH.

[trubandloki]

Lauren was importing horses in a market that is very different than the market is now. Pre-Covid (2018, early 2019). So those prices are not what I would expect someone aiming for the Olympics to spend when importing, I believe at that time they were not totally out of line.