Mis-Marked Saddle- Update with Saddlery's Resolution

[tua37516]

I am experiencing issues with a name brand saddlery purchase I made in spring of 2014. I am going to omit brand names because I don’t think that it is necessary to put out any negative information before they make an offer to fix the problem.

So I went to a saddlery and tried a few saddles in a retail location last spring. I was not in the position to go custom but was looking at new saddles that offered a variety of tree and flap configurations, so I was ready to spend a few thousand dollars on a new saddle. From the beginning, I made it very clear I needed a MEDIUM WIDE tree. I sat in a variety of available options and due to my long thigh a prototype saddle for a new line (released a few months later in 2014) was suggested. I sat in this saddle and it fit me perfectly. I took this saddle on trial, rode in it for a week and loved it.

A few months later my horse does not want to move forward, seems cranky under saddle, and will not pick up the canter from the walk. Attributing it to weight & muscle gain from being in regular work, I assume the saddle is too small. I pull the saddle and put back on the 20 year old wide tree Pessoa A/O I was riding in previously. I send the saddle to a high end consignment shop.

Saddle sits at consignment shop, goes out on trial a few times, but is not selling. The tree measurement from the professional saddle fitter is listed as a 4" tree. Confused, I reach out to saddle fitter and ask about tree measurement. They say, we have measured it numerous times, it is absolutely 4". Meanwhile, saddle is most certainly STAMPED “MW.” Having bugged the saddle fitter about this, I ask can they send me a picture of the measurement and undoubtedly the tree measures 4". The saddle was erroneously marked.

So now, about 8-9 months from purchase, I have only ridden in this saddle about 3 months and have a saddle that was never the tree size I was led to believe. I would have NEVER purchased a medium or med/narrow size tree for my big shouldered, round barreled horse. While YES, I did get a trial and the saddle fit me fairly well, apparently 1 week was not enough time to deteriorate my horse’s back to the point that my horse acted out.

What would you expect as a resolution? Disclaimer: this is a prototype model that is no longer made, but they did push forward with the line but it now has a different name (and fancier stitching).

Possible options that I can think of:

1. Stretch tree 1/2"
2. Consign saddle with saddlery and buy new one when it sells.
3. Saddlery gives me comparable model in correct tree size.
4. Get a refund.

Personally, I am not comfortable with stretching a tree 1/2"? I don’t want to compromise the integrity of the tree off the bat, when I was hoping to have this saddle for the next 10 years. While I did purchase a prototype model, I came into the store ready to purchase whatever was the best FITTING saddle. Consigning the saddle doesn’t seem fair because it will take time and money away from me when the saddle was never right from the get go. So I am left with maybe getting another new saddle or a refund? What would you expect or hope to have as a resolution in this situation?

[Against_All_Odds1]

Unfortunately I think you are out of luck. In the week you had the saddle you could have measured it. I usually go to a tack shop with my measurements and measure everything before bringing anything home. This is how I ended up with a great fitting saddle for my horse a couple years back, it was marked MN but was very clearly an XW when you took a tape to it.

Sorry about your luck. Saddle shopping blows!

[tua37516]

[QUOTE=AgainstAllOdds;7955681]
Unfortunately I think you are out of luck. In the week you had the saddle you could have measured it. I usually go to a tack shop with my measurements and measure everything before bringing anything home. This is how I ended up with a great fitting saddle for my horse a couple years back, it was marked MN but was very clearly an XW when you took a tape to it.

Sorry about your luck. Saddle shopping blows![/QUOTE]

Well luckily in my preliminary conversations with the saddlery they will definitely do something for me, so I am not completely out of luck. The questions are… a)what would you want and b)what would you expect?

[Gorgonzola]

[QUOTE=tua37516;7955697]
Well luckily in my preliminary conversations with the saddlery they will definitely do something for me, so I am not completely out of luck. The questions are… a)what would you want and b)what would you expect?[/QUOTE]

Most likely they’ll trade a used MN for a used MW, that would make the most sense.

[tua37516]

[QUOTE=Gorgonzola;7955722]
Most likely they’ll trade a used MN for a used MW, that would make the most sense.[/QUOTE]

Problem is the model I have is a limited run, so highly unlikely they will have many used ones, if any (I don’t think they do). However if that were possible, I would try it!

[Backstage]

While the dot-to-dot measurement (which is what I assume you are referring to) is used quite often to give a sense of the width of a saddle, it isn’t an actual reliable measurement. Additionally, there is quite a variation from saddle-maker to saddle-maker as to what constitutes a medium versus a medium-wide, etc. I think you need to do some additional research - and try and track down saddles by this manufacturer, ideally of this model, in order to be more certain that this saddle is actually mis-marked.

This is an interesting read, as well: http://saddlefitter.blogspot.ca/2010/04/whats-point.html

[tua37516]

[QUOTE=Backstage;7955768]
While the dot-to-dot measurement (which is what I assume you are referring to) is used quite often to give a sense of the width of a saddle, it isn’t an actual reliable measurement. Additionally, there is quite a variation from saddle-maker to saddle-maker as to what constitutes a medium versus a medium-wide, etc. I think you need to do some additional research - and try and track down saddles by this manufacturer, ideally of this model, in order to be more certain that this saddle is actually mis-marked.

This is an interesting read, as well: http://saddlefitter.blogspot.ca/2010/04/whats-point.html[/QUOTE]

Per the saddlery (on my first visit and as of now), the saddle’s measurements were supposed to be 4.5"

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=tua37516;7955639]
… I took this saddle on trial, rode in it for a week and loved it.

A few months later my horse does not want to move forward, seems cranky under saddle, and will not pick up the canter from the walk. …[/QUOTE]

Sounds like YOU thought the saddle fit (regardless of what it was advertised as originally) and you were wrong.

ETA: if they didn’t allow a trial of the saddle and it was marked as one thing but ended up being another, I’d say they need to make it right.

But it doesn’t really matter what the actual measurement was - you were allowed to try it and based on what you wrote here, you loved it, and kept it, so I’m assuming you considered that it fit the horse.

[tua37516]

I guess my point of view is that I would never have bought a MN/M size tree and 1 week was not enough time for my horse to complain about saddle fit? If I say when buying a saddle “I know my horse needs at least a 4.5” tree," and they say, “Here these are the models we have in MW, sit in this.” I am counting on the saddle measuring what they tell me it does? I guess I am learning the hard way that if it is marked MW and someone tells me what their MW’s measure not to assume it will be correct?

[Bogie]

You bought a saddle. You thought it fit fine and rode in it for three months until your horse complained. Then you discovered it didn’t fit. Unfortunately, the responsibility for that lies with you. Regardless of how the tree was marked, you had the saddle, the horse, and the opportunity to tell the manufacturer that the saddle they delivered was too narrow. From my experience different manufacturers’ trees fit differently, so a Medium in one saddle may fit wider or narrower when compared to another manufacturers.

With 20/20 hindsight, having a saddle fitter evaluate the saddle on the horse when it was delivered would have been a good idea because they could have told you from the get go that it was likely too narrow and not fitting properly.

At this point, I think you are lucky that they are willing to help you out. They could have legitimately said that you were happy with the saddle and that your horse changed shape during the time after you purchased it.

My saddle fitter has told me that most saddle trees can be widened (or narrowed) one size without hurting the integrity of the tree . . . that would be something to discuss with the manufacturer. I have a County saddle that was widened from a Medium to an almost wide before I bought it and I have never had any issues with it. IF you do that, you need to make sure that the person adjusting the tree widens it correctly so that you don’t end up with a twisted or lopsided tree.

However – there are a few other things to consider. First, can they widen the tree enough to make your saddle fit and second, is it JUST the width of the tree that is a problem? There are many other aspects to saddle fit than tree width. If you widen the tree and it still doesn’t fit, you will reduce the value of the saddle.

I bought a saddle for my mare knowing that it wasn’t wide enough but also having had my fitter evaluate it for fit. Since it’s a kieffer on a synthetic tree, it can be adjusted more easily than a conventional tree.

If it were me, I would have an independent saddle fitter look at the saddle you have and tell you if they believe an adjustment will make the saddle fit properly. If not, I’d ask for a trade in or have them sell it on consignment.

Good luck!

[js]

Unfortunately that is the problem with 7 day saddle trials; far too often it can take many weeks to find that the horse ends up not liking how the saddle fits. A half inch doesn’t sound like it would make a huge difference, thought for many sensitive horses it would, do you ride with a thick pad? Have you tried riding with a thin pad to see if it will fit? Otherwise I would see if the tree is adjustable, if yes get it widened, if the saddle is stamped incorrectly they should be willing to pay for it. It might be wise to make sure all elements of the saddle fit and it isn’t just the 1/2" width as the only issue.

[Denzel]

[QUOTE=tua37516;7955820]
I guess my point of view is that I would never have bought a MN/M size tree and 1 week was not enough time for my horse to complain about saddle fit? If I say when buying a saddle “I know my horse needs at least a 4.5” tree," and they say, “Here these are the models we have in MW, sit in this.” I am counting on the saddle measuring what they tell me it does? I guess I am learning the hard way that if it is marked MW and someone tells me what their MW’s measure not to assume it will be correct?[/QUOTE]

I think the point that other posters are trying to make is that once you got the saddle home, the first thing you should have done is to double check the fit on the horse, and if you are not qualified to do so, to have a professional double check the fit of the saddle to the horse. If this would have been done at the beginning, you wouldn’t have ridden in it for a week, because either you, or the saddle fitter would have noticed right off the bat that the saddle did not fit the horse correctly.

Even if you take back tracings in and they tell you that saddles X, Y and Z come in the tree width you need for the particular tracings, it is still your responsibility to assess the saddle fit once you take the saddle home, not only for tree width, but tree shape and panel placement, balance point, etc. I am assuming that since this was a tack store buy, the saddle did not come with a fitting service. If you do not feel comfortable assessing saddle fit yourself, asking a more experienced person or hiring and independent saddle fitter should be your first go-to when purchasing a saddle.

[tua37516]

[QUOTE=Denzel;7955869]
I think the point that other posters are trying to make is that once you got the saddle home, the first thing you should have done is to double check the fit on the horse, and if you are not qualified to do so, to have a professional double check the fit of the saddle to the horse. If this would have been done at the beginning, you wouldn’t have ridden in it for a week, because either you, or the saddle fitter would have noticed right off the bat that the saddle did not fit the horse correctly.

Even if you take back tracings in and they tell you that saddles X, Y and Z come in the tree width you need for the particular tracings, it is still your responsibility to assess the saddle fit once you take the saddle home, not only for tree width, but tree shape and panel placement, balance point, etc. I am assuming that since this was a tack store buy, the saddle did not come with a fitting service. If you do not feel comfortable assessing saddle fit yourself, asking a more experienced person or hiring and independent saddle fitter should be your first go-to when purchasing a saddle.[/QUOTE]

I did have my current trainer also evaluate the fit. So I did think that I was having a professional help me. I definitely see that going forward I should have a saddle fitter do this. As I have learned more, I also don’t love the panel shape compared to my horse’s back. I did not ride in half pad or thick pad, even a thin, plain Dover pad the horse was uncomfortable. The saddlery seems at the very least willing to adjust the saddle free of charge. They may possibly work with me to get me in something comparable as well. I don’t know if that means used or new, but having a saddle that fits both me and horse would be a definite improvement.

Just not the new saddle experience I had hoped for.

[Gorgonzola]

[QUOTE=tua37516;7955820]
I guess my point of view is that I would never have bought a MN/M size tree and 1 week was not enough time for my horse to complain about saddle fit? If I say when buying a saddle “I know my horse needs at least a 4.5” tree," and they say, “Here these are the models we have in MW, sit in this.” I am counting on the saddle measuring what they tell me it does? I guess I am learning the hard way that if it is marked MW and someone tells me what their MW’s measure not to assume it will be correct?[/QUOTE]

From your first post: Attributing it to weight & muscle gain from being in regular work, I assume the saddle is too small.

Your horse changed, the saddle did not. The saddle no longer fits, sell it and buy one that fits your horse as he is now.

[arabiansrock]

SAd to say, but trainers often do not know much about saddle fitting either, they rely on their professional saddle fitter. Maybe you can trailer your horse to this tack shop so they can evaluate the saddle on his back?

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Bogie;7955830]
You bought a saddle. You thought it fit fine and rode in it for three months until your horse complained. Then you discovered it didn’t fit. Unfortunately, the responsibility for that lies with you. Regardless of how the tree was marked, you had the saddle, the horse, and the opportunity to tell the manufacturer that the saddle they delivered was too narrow. From my experience different manufacturers’ trees fit differently, so a Medium in one saddle may fit wider or narrower when compared to another manufacturers. [/QUOTE]
I have to agree with this.
If you had not taken it and tried it before you bought it I might feel a little differently but you had a chance to decide if it fit, so what the number on the saddle says is irrelevant really.

Feel lucky that they are working with you at all.

[tua37516]

Well saddlery returned my call- they are offering store credit. I suppose my other choice is also to still have it widened.

[Crazy4aOTTB]

Not sure what the resolution should be. I would talk with the seller as well as the manufacturer. Do you have a receipt showing the details of the size they sold you?

I had a similar situation. I took a saddle on trial that was a little to big for me. I was kind of going back and forth between wether to order a 16.5 or a 17 seat size. I decided ot go with a 17. When I received the saddle I was so happy I never really looked at the saddle to make sure it was the right size. It fit my horse great but it felt just a little to big. I thougth I would just have to get used to it. After about a month when I was cleaning it I noticed it had stamped it was a 17.5. I immediately called the store who called the manufacturer. The maufacturer stated that it was just stamped wrong and that this saddle was in fact a 17. I finally told them that I did not feel comfortable and felt that it was in fact a 17.5 and that is what it measured. I returned my saddle and they sent me a new one that was a 17 and fit me much better. A half inch doesn’t seem like much but it can make a big difference.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=tua37516;7955919]
Well saddlery returned my call- they are offering store credit. I suppose my other choice is also to still have it widened.[/QUOTE]

I think this is more than a fair offer.

[tua37516]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;7955996]
I think this is more than a fair offer.[/QUOTE]

I agree, financially I think it is fair.

I supposed my frustration is that I shortchanged myself by trusting the rep and going with a prototype model which will not be valued at the same cost as the new model, so the store credit will not equal a new saddle. So essentially I am still stuck