Modern Pentathalon

I think a training level dressage test would be suitable in the circumstances.

That goes back to changing something where points for faults and timing errors determines who wins to something where the opinion of a judge decides who wins.

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Dressage and skating are pretty well understood, and there are points awarded for dressage tests. You would be assessing the competitors ability to ride, not the horse’s tolerance for unskilled buggering about, or the way he moves.

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This is a sport that is not judged in any area. It is a timed/fault type sport. Adding a judged aspect to it changes the sport completely.

And yes, Dressage has points awarded. It still involves the opinion of that judge. There are no opinions in what happens now. Adding an opinion again, changes everything.

Oh, I can totally see lots of dressage horses not tolerating the “unskilled buggering about”.

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All you need do is change two words in the Training Level “Purpose”;

PURPOSE
To confirm that the rider demonstrates correct basics, horse is supple and
moves freely forward in a clear rhythm with a steady tempo, accepting
contact with the bit.
All trot work may be ridden sitting or rising, unless stated.
Halts may be through the walk.

And adjust the collectives.

Dressage buggering about is probably safer for the horses.
Why is it so important not to have judges with the ability to ring out the competitor, there NEEDS to be changes made.

Riders may even be encouraged to learn to ride, rather than concentrating on beating a horse over a jump.

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I think a mounted shooting course as a replacement for the jumping would be a fantastic idea.

Riders do have to have horse skills to get them to maneuver around the course, and to be able to shoot well/accurately, but it’s not particularly hard on the horses to lope/run a 1 minute pattern – so finding a small group of volunteer horses would be much easier than finding a group of loaner 1.2m horses!

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Plus, at that level it would probably involve a judging panel. And let’s face it - who, outside of dressage enthusiasts, wants to watch low level and potentially poorly-executed dressage?

"And now we have trot from this corner to that corner. The trot, viewers, is a two beat gait. That means only Ringo and Paul are still playing, and they are moving together in opposite corners of the horse. The green light flashes every time the rider’s nuts get squashed on the front of the saddle - oh dear! Jim Bob has drawn the more uppy-downy horse today and looks like Mrs Jim Bob might have to have some ice on stand-by! Now that Jim-Bob has survived the corner-to-corner, we are going to walk from the other corner to the … other corner. Viewers, if you need to take a pee, now is the time to go! Make a sandwich, Jim-Bob looks like he needs one out there. Ok, now we are galloping in a circle. And now we are galloping in another circle - bit wonky Jim-Bob! Looks like an egg. We want circles, not what your left nut now resembles! Third time at the gallop circle is the charm… and back to the walk… Mary? Mary? Can you put some of that call-hold music on, make the viewers realise that they DO have time to boil the jub before Jim-Bob gets to the next cor… oh no. Jim-Bob has stopped in the middle and waved a white flag at the judge. Better luck next time Jim-Bob, and don’t forget to go corner to corner! "

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And if we are moving to “Horse buggering around” instead of jumping… I want this guy to be the commentator.

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Which is why changes are needed so urgently. They will paint us all with the same brush and we will all be screwed.

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Make them start with a horse tied to a rail, they have to mount, do a cross country roads and tracks with a few small 2’6" maybe 3’ jumps, go through a small water obstacle, and stop to do some archery along the way where they would have to either dismount, tie or hold horse or remain mounted, hit targets. Better horsemanship would be an advantage.

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Always better to stamp one’s feet than to think about a bigger reform :upside_down_face:

Why NOT think about a different but equally black and white sport - mounted archery cannot be any more dangerous to horses and riders than the shit-jumping they currently do.

And then there is also Tent-Pegging.

There are options. There is zero reason to watch terrible riders do damage to horses and lumber.

If show jumping is really that important to any of these people, then learn to ride and compete in regular show jumping. There is no reason it should be that important to Modern Pentathlon, and in fact, athletes, coaches, officials, judge and the rules themselves prove that it is not that important.

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They have always painted us all with the same brush.

Edit to add - I had to go look up what Tent Pegging was. I had never heard of it.

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But…they’re swimming a pretty fast 200m. The challenge is not the distance - it’s the pace. Running 3000m isn’t very far either.

And…from what I understand - Pentathlon is a skill sport, not an endurance sport. And all done on one day. So the relatively short swim makes sense.

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Totally fun! I did a clinic a couple of years ago (on school horses) and loved it. The sport is totally set up to use borrowed horses and the risk that a horse is damaged by bad riding is minimal. They run in a straight line and come to understand they stop at the end of the run. The part that would make it most fitting for MP is that it requires skill and concentration, but only basic ability to stay on the horse and steer a bit.

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OMG… I just checked the post again this morning to see how it was developing. It’s up to 1800 comments. The comments about what have become of the horse are getting REALLY nutty.

And yes… the horse rescue people who are now fixated on this one gelding, who lives in Japan at a riding center there… they are their own sort of special :upside_down_face:

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Good ideas all! Add to the list of possibilities: ride over a bridge, go up and down a small bank, do a tight turn around an obstacle at speed, open and close a gate while mounted. You know, the stuff people actually do when riding cross-country. No fences larger than 3 feet, and nothing more complicated than a simple in-and-out (which is intended to mimic jumping out of a pasture into a road, crossing the road, then jumping into another pasture - a realistic scenario while riding cross country). Make the test look more like a low-level 3-Day Event cross-country course. The large fences and tricky distances in modern show jumping really don’t look like anything a real cavalry officer carrying a dispatch would ever actually face, so why do that?

And make the Equestrian part of pentathalon count for a much larger percentage of the overall score and dramatically increase the penalties for rider falls, runouts/refusals, and horses falling over/crashing through a fence. Make the equestrian phase actually matter, and watch the level of horsemanship go up!

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I don’t understand the outrage at the “big money” of $1000 to borrow a 1.2m jumper for a big, important class. I mean, hello Florida circuit, equitation finals, pony leases…

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I feel like a sort of hunter pace/cross country ride would be a good/appropriate substitution - set up a course that involves some terrain (nothing too tricky) with a series of obstacles (not jumps necessarily, but navigating streams/bridges/crossings/gates) that have multiple options (perhaps with scores allocated based on difficulty), and with an optimum time rather than fast time.

The more practiced riders can get better scores, but riders having trouble or not clicking with their horse have options.

I feel like that’s in keeping with the roots of the competition, and safer for everyone.

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It was more than that at the Pan Ams…

I’ve swum competitively at that distance so I do have a sense of what they’re doing. I still think that the challenges of jumping a course of 1.2 m fences on a horse you’ve sat on for 20 minutes is orders of magnitude harder than swimming 200m freestyle. Even at race speeds.

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