Modern Pentathalon

[McGurk]

But that horse was spectacular! The riding wasn’t great, but it wasn’t a disaster either.

[erinmeri]

Well, the video opens with a fall. Riding wasn’t as bad as other pentathlon disaster video, but I don’t believe getting left behind right and left and falling off in one round is appropriate for an Olympian. Agree that horse is awesome! Mine would not have been pleased about all of that getting left behind and flopping about, and probably would have got her off on the landing side of that yellow oxer, TBH.

[Event_Horse]

@SuzieQNutter

The people who hit, kick, excessively hit horses are simply people who are frustrated because they have come to the end of what they know.

It simply means they need to continue learning.

People need an open mind to learn.

Wish I knew who to credit the quote to but it goes something like this: “Where knowledge ends, abuse begins.”

[MHM]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

His description of what happened to the Canadian rider in Barcelona with a horse falling… and the official not permitting a substitution?!? W.T.F.

Let’s not forget that the Olympics in Barcelona were in 1992. Almost 30 years ago. So obviously the authorities in charge of the pentathlon at the Olympics have had plenty of time to make improvements, and they did not.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

They weren’t referring to the Barcelona Olympics, but to the Pentathlon World championships in 2018, or 2019 (I can’t remember which year) - anyway - that competition was held in Barcelona.

[MHM]

Ah, I see. Thanks. Barcelona only means one thing to me when it’s mentioned regarding a horse competition.

But I think the statement still holds true. The pentathlon videos anyone can find show similar issues with the riding phase for years and years and years.

[IPEsq]

@Manni01

Yup starting at M-level . Why do you think only from that level??? Because they are considered a very harsh bit which belongs not into the hands of unexperienced riders…. Try to mention that you are riding your horse with a gag in German discussion boards, you would be amazed about what people think about it….

So using them in a competition were horses are not even known to the riders (and according to this board the riders are usually not very experienced riders anyhow) It seems to be not really horse friendly……

I am sure in Germany a rider competing in a show at M- level has known his horse for longer then 20 min

M level = 1.20m

Modern Pentathlon in the Olympics = 1.20m

Why would a German rider in this class not be expected to know how to ride with the same equipment as someone competing their own horse at the same level? I had a horse that went in a gag in the 1.10m jumpers when I was 13 and have been able to ride with leverage bits and 2 reins since I was on ponies. Yes, I’ve jumped 1.20m myself. No, I don’t use strong bits on all horses. I primarily own an arsenal of plain snaffles.

I am amazed at the people who think the horses are somehow at fault with this dumpster fire of an event!?! The footing was terrible and not going to give any horse confidence after being put to bad distances. Riders had no eye for distances for the most part. And so much international press on the “naughty” horses and how cruel it was to these top riders to put them with such bad horses.

I have personally ridden a horse in IHSA who was fried by his first rider of the day. I got him around ok, though he did have one stop and was a bit of a lit cannon. I also figured by the end of the course we had clicked and honestly mostly posed at the jump (after finding a good distance) where we stopped, and he said nope, don’t trust you. They pulled him from the rest of the day and offered me a re-ride on a horse who did better with that format. Only I didn’t have much of a better round on that one because my saddle was soooo far back and they wouldn’t move it (the host team has to adjust all the tack except stirrup length). I had trouble seeing distances not sitting in the middle of the horse, but even then, we were not crashing through anything or falling down. I wasn’t a huge fan of that format and didn’t do that many shows because we always had to travel, and driving for hours to ride in 2 classes for a few minutes each was not really worth it to me. I did have some really nice rides on some horses I drew.

I do think it’s telling that even the top division in IHSA format still has pretty small jumps. At the same time, this is the OLYMPICS. 1.20m on terrible footing is a bad idea, but I am not sure that the outcome with these rides would have been a lot better at 1.0m. Maybe slightly less risk of death, but probably not a greatly improved chance of making it around without major faults that would get the riders eliminated from any other riding discipline.

[JER]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Re: Pony Finals. I do think it’s another apples to oranges comparison, although, to be fair, the high-end pony world has also been criticized for fostering a generation of kids who are more pilots than riders/horsepersons, and people more focused on winning than taking responsibility for what goes on at the barn (and leaving medication, bitting, and stabling choices up to the trainer). Yes, it’s nice if a child pats a pony if they fall off, but that’s not where good sportspersonship ends.

Well said, Impractical. This is exactly what I meant by my post.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Absolutely- the very videos we can see going back years are really crazy to watch…

[Bobby7]

Did you see that Kaley Cuoco spoke out against the German team, And offered to buy that horse. I met her this summer at a horse show, she is one of the nicest people.

[JER]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

His description of what happened to the Canadian rider in Barcelona with a horse falling… and the official not permitting a substitution?!? W.T.F.

I was the Canadian coach at that competition.

Rick’s description isn’t entirely accurate. If anyone wants to hear what happened, I’ll can give the details. Basically, the rule is you can’t get a substitute horse except under certain conditions, the substitute horse was offered only after the athlete had mounted the horse, meaning per the rules, it wasn’t allowed. The athlete was there to get points for Pan Am Games selection and would get a 0 ride if he got on another horse.Which is what happened anyway but when you’re a self-funded athlete and the organizer is telling you the horse is fine, you’ve got a difficult choice to make.

I want to be clear that the athlete in question is an exceptionally sensitive rider who has worked very hard at his riding. He loves horses and loves to ride. The whole experience was a nightmare for all of us.

Many of the horses were in terrible condition, basically starving. This was the real problem.

I photographed the horses and posted the pics on Instagram, tagged UIPM, etc and said ‘WTF is going on here?’ It was a shameful, awful situation.

A UIPM technical delegate had signed off on the competition so once again, the UIPM is to blame for allowing animal abuse under its auspices.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@IPEsq

1.20m on terrible footing is a bad idea, but I am not sure that the outcome with these rides would have been a lot better at 1.0m. Maybe slightly less risk of death, but probably not a greatly improved chance of making it around without major faults that would get the riders eliminated from any other riding discipline.

In the earlier article I linked with the suggestions from the Canadian coach, they talked about many reforms, including two rounds of jumping (both at lower heights). The idea seemed to be for a shorter first course, at lower heights, but with more technical elements. 0.9 m was mentioned. If the rider makes it around clear and within the time, THEN they could advance to part 2, with another course with higher jumps (maybe 1.0 to 1.1 m).

This reform idea seems like it gets to the root of the issue you touch on. If the jumps are simply lowered… there still might be a tendency for riders to crash ride around course number 1, just trying to complete it for some points (that’s how the current scoring system works… it rewards completing the course). If they switched to a format where you MUST have a clear round on course #1 to earn any points, and then round 2 is where you pick up extra significant points… riders will ride to COMPETE, not just crash around to complete the single course. Riders who can’t will be weeded out in the first round at the lower height. And that seems like a much better outcome for all the horses involved.

[endlessclimb]

No, really the one to blame are the people who continue to compete, continue to give the organization money, despite the rife animal welfare issues.

Find another sport if they don’t care to change. Or make a new organization.

And lest someone say ohhh not possible… wasn’t it endurance that had a major split in it recently because the FEI was not taking animal welfare seriously enough for their tastes?

It can be done. At the very least, quit giving them your money for God’s sake.

[MHM]

@Bobby7

Did you see that Kaley Cuoco spoke out against the German team, And offered to buy that horse. I met her this summer at a horse show, she is one of the nicest people.

That’s nice to hear. I’ve always enjoyed the thought of her taking all her Big Bang money and spending it on horses that she treats like royalty. Lol.

[MHM]

The thing that always amazes me about scary riding videos is that generally speaking, I’ve always found that the video often looks better than the ride feels. The video might look like a trip is not too bad, while the person watching it afterwards is thinking, “Oh, I got a little deep there, I let him shift to the left a tiny bit at that jump, I needed to stay a little quieter with my upper body to the single oxer, etc. etc.” The video does not necessarily show all those subtle details.

So when a video shows a ride that looks so spectacularly bad, how much worse does it actually feel to the person in the moment?? Not to mention the poor horse?

[erinmeri]

@MHM

The thing that always amazes me about scary riding videos is that generally speaking, I’ve always found that the video often looks better than the ride feels.

1000% I am hard on myself and am always nitpicking videos to death, but usually the things that feel terrifying in the moment are far less so on video. I can get a tad left behind and it feels like i got launched like a missile. I can’t even imagine how some of these rounds feel to both the riders and those poor horses.

[aredhel]

The footing was terrible and not going to give any horse confidence after being put to bad distances.

Am I the only one wondering if the horses were even appropriately shod for performing on wet grass?

[MHM]

I’m not sure that even qualified as grass.

It reminded me of an unfortunate episode a few years back when they held the American Invitational in a new stadium near Miami, and I think they just rolled out stretches of sod on top of the existing surface. That did not work too well.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Totally wondering the same. So much attention was focused on Saint Boy’s welfare… I’m wondering how ALL the pentathlon horses are doing though, after jumping 1.2 m courses in BAD footing, with POOR riding… repeatedly. What do you bet one or more of the rest of them came away from it with a soft tissue injury of some sort?

[JER]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

What do you bet one or more of the rest of them came away from it with a soft tissue injury of some sort?

This would be unusual, says she who has been to many competitions in many far-flung places.

Jealoushe and I have loaned horses to pentathlon competitions. As I’ve been saying all along, there are people behind the scenes who care about and care for the horses.