What did Denny Emerson say? I can’t find it….
Actually that was Devon not pony finals.
1 Like
I know that my ideas are crap, but IMO comparing only the riders on one horse would make it easier to protect the horses and to find out the better riders…. But it would take a little more time because it would go over 3 rounds….
I would do an 80 cm round first. 3 riders one horse. the rider who rides the horse best advances to the next round. That kind of reduces the next round to ⅓ of the participants… depending on the number of participants. For the 1 m round you could do 2 or three riders per horse and again the best rider advances…. again the number of participants doing the third round is only ⅓ of the 2nd round. so only these which should be the best riders are doing the 1.20m
I think it’s a lot fairer then the current format because it doesn’t really matter what horse you draw. You only compare to the other riders on the same horse…. And only the good riders will do the 1.20.
Maybe a better description then I can do…. https://www.aiecworld.com/information/what-is-student-riding/
I know it’s my proposition so you will all jump on it but it’s actually a pretty proven system 
I do not dislike your proposition @Manni01.
The only downside is that rider #3 on Dobbin has to now deal with the mistakes of TWO riders before them, and having read your thoughts here I know you have a strong opinion on how that is not fair, having to deal with the mistakes of the rider(s) before.
How would you deal with this issue in your format?
5 Likes
Well first of all the jumps are only 80 cm in the first round.
Makes it easier for everybody so maybe the riders will not have that much negative impact on the attitude of the horses. And then my personal experience was that usually the best rider will still do the best job on the horse on that level .
remember his goal is not to win the hole contest but only to get a better result than the other riders on the horse… so maybe the riders are more relaxed which will also be good for the horse…
And this is only a problem for the first round, because usually in the next rounds there are only the experienced riders left which will most likely not mess up the horses…
And you cannot eliminate every risk from this type of competition…
But I competed in several of these competitions and there were no horrible rides like in MP because the bad riders left the competition already in the first round…
JER thinks it’s the UIPM being stupid and reactive.
Dumbing it down isn’t a solution. Dumbing it down isn’t giving value to the riding.
The UIPM’s communique was just a scattershot missive by a small contingent who’ve been shutting out other voices for decades.
Keep in mind that the biggest fear of these UIPM officials and functionaries is that they’ll be forced out of their little kingdom. They care about themselves and their powers (if there is such a thing as ‘power’ in a small sport) more than they do about riding or the sport of pentathlon.
4 Likes
Whatever. I was hoping people would understand that I was speaking metaphorically. Having seen the cutthroat money-splurge that it takes to get a child (sometimes even a disinterested child) to Pony Finals, I found it a bit rich for people to be holding that up as an example of horsemanship.
3 Likes
We are not saying that all Pentathlon riders suck either. We are saying that this rider sucks and lacks horsemanship and that poster was impressed at those that they had seen watching what they had watched.
Yes, there are some crappy parents at pony finals. What was being said was it was nice to see riders having good horsemanship by praising their horse even if they had a bad round.
Up thread, I said the same thing about many of the pentathlon riders in one of those old videos.
Now back to a nice discussion with ideas that might make viewing world feel like this sport cares about the horse when this well publicized rider gave it a bad name.
8 Likes
Kaley Cuoco is getting a bunch of media attention for offering to buy the horse. I really like her but It’s putting a sour taste in my mouth… the owner isn’t to blame for this IMO. I don’t see any reason to think that this horse doesn’t already have a good home.
10 Likes
Yes, and a lot of quiet racism is flying around that idea IMHO as well. He seems a lovely horse and he wouldn’t have done as much as he did for either rider if he hadn’t been well handled and well cared for.
12 Likes
I was thinking this too…
So is a whole bunch of crazy PETA types. At least Kaley Cuoco can back it up with money and a home.
I believe the thought is (though I admit I have not read the articles and such) that clearly this poor abused horse was put in that position because the owner must not care about it.
(Not my opinion of the owner, just what I have heard that the thought pattern is.)
2 Likes
Agreed.
The horse napped badly for the first rider, who is a former world champion and usually gets around quite nicely in a quiet style that doesn’t get in the horse’s way.
Saint Boy probably knew he got the better of Annika. She wasn’t being effective in her ‘disciplinary actions’ and he knew it. If he really wanted to end it, he could have dumped her quite easily. He didn’t do that.
His name might be Saint Boy but the more saintly thing to do would be to go in the ring and do the job. He knew the job, had been around that course numerous times for schooling yet decided he wasn’t going under present circumstances.
There cannot possibly be an actual horse person on this board who hasn’t seen this before. Horses do have brains and independent thoughts and they do make choices. I’ve seen horses nap with pros - as has everyone else here.
Ms. Cuoco loves a good pile on for the sake of horse ‘welfare’. Her offer to buy the horse at any price is as self-aggrandizing as it is ridiculous.
8 Likes
And for the record Manni and I hate that I’m giving you a response … I never said YOU were abusive or that you would abuse your horse. I SIMPLY asked you why you thought it was okay for the German rider to whip and spur and ride really poorly just because it was the highest prize … the Olympics. You seemed to allow poor horsemanship when the mount was not cooperative because oh well it’s the Olympics. Never did I say YOU were an abuser. Never did I say you’d allow your horse to be abused. You were simply asked if you would find it acceptable if your lovely horse acted nappy and uncooperative on the biggest day of some borrowed athletes competition if you’d say. Yeah. I understand. The horse was a dick. It’s the Olympics. Me? I’d never ride a horse like that. No matter the stakes or my investment.
7 Likes
Something non-pentafolk might not be aware of:
The very first rider in the order of go, Marcela of Ecuador, never appeared in the ring. She has an E next to her name so it looks the warm up judge didn’t allow her to go out on course.
1 Like
Didn’t Saint Boy’s first rider bury him into a bunch of fences before he finally called it a day? I’ve understood many of your posts but this one goes right back to blaming the horse and treating it like a piece of equipment that should work no matter how poorly it’s treated.
I think a lot of people don’t understand that the German rider/coach didn’t own the horse. Maybe Kaley is one of them. Either way, Kaley has a lovely, lovely barn and her pets are very well taken care of. He’d hit the jackpot if he wound up there.
20 Likes
No! The whole point is that the horse has made his choice out of self preservation. Horses build associated memories and he linked that particular course to pain (this is also why this particular experience will be so hard to erase for him in the future). He simply showed that he’s the other 50% of the team and chosed not be whipped & spurred around, and crushed into fences anymore. The fact that he did the few jumps anyway shows how much of a Saint he is.
17 Likes
You didn’t read my post for comprehension.
I said that the first rider in the order of go did not appear in the ring. The Brazilian was the second rider in the order of go and the first rider to appear in the competition ring.
1 Like
It’s just not a horse that had any business being in this type of competition IMO. I’ve known plenty of horses where they’re great, solid, packers at normal shows with their owner or leassor but simply are not cut out for IEA/ IHSA and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Right… but we can’t blame him for that. I would not want to do the job with those riders either… even the good ones. I actually think the fact that he didn’t flip over on her makes him worthy of the name “saint boy” but that’s just me. We’re not entitled to our horses jumping around so we can win a 50 cent ribbon.
This is why I asked about how often these horses compete in modern pentathlon. In IHSA, we don’t just throw horses into the ring, we know who has a sense of humor and who does not.
10 Likes
I’ll edit. I meant Saint Boy’s first rider. You said she’s a great rider and implied he “napped” for no reason other than he didn’t want to go “under present circumstances”.
I understand you said the first rider on course was eliminated before entering the ring for unknown reasons. But we were mostly talking about Saint Boy and Kaley Cuoco’s offer.
10 Likes
