The horses in Japan may have been used in the 2019 World Cup Final which was the Olympic test event.
Other than that, there haven’t been any top-level pentathlon competitions in Japan. For whatever reason (probably money), the Japanese federation doesn’t bid for these competitions.
If you go to Poland or Hungary or the UK, you’ll find experienced pentathlon horses that do lots of competitions.
I’m going to kindly ask you to ignore my posts from now on because you can’t be bothered to read them even when you claim to re-read them.
I did not call Gubaydallina a ‘great rider’. I said she’s a ‘former world champion who usually gets around in a quiet style’.
My post about Marcela from Ecuador was a separate post to explain that there was a rider not permitted into the competition ring by the warm-up judge. That’s also something that’s in the rules and it was invoked in her case.
Dude I never said saint boy was a dick. Read back through the thread. I was hypothetically speaking to Manni
Because a horse can be a total dick in response to how it’s treated. It’s a give and take and as riders it’s OUR job to deescalate when things go sideways. That was my point. No matter the enormity of the prize. You do not need to school me. I’ve been railing for his welfare from post one
You know, JER, you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Most users here are used to your charming, acerbic way of defending any subject you have higher knowledge of or experience in, but some aren’t. You being borderline nasty with some of your replies isn’t necessary nor conducive to finding a solution to the problem.
Thanks for the sage advice but I’m not here to indulge the willfully ignorant.
There’s no discussion to be had with someone who repeatedly misrepresents what you’ve written.
Or to put it in the context of your advice: there are some flies not worth catching.
Then don’t engage. However, acting like a snarky know-it-all leads me to believe you enjoy it.
I’ll chime in that I am equally confused by your posts here, though.
Calling the rider a former world champion who usually gets around in a quiet style, and pointing out that the horse napped badly suggested that you are saying the horse was at fault [to some degree.]
His name might be Saint Boy but the more saintly thing to do would be to go in the ring and do the job. He knew the job, had been around that course numerous times for schooling yet decided he wasn’t going under present circumstances.
Of course we all understand that all horses are not packers; so I’m guessing that’s all you are saying here. (?) And/or that the horses provided for MP were not all the best for Olympic competition.
My dearest friend, if YOU would bother to read my post, I was explaining to BLBGP why I was not engaging.
Your behavioral instructions are self-serving and have nothing to do with this thread.
I came on here to answer questions about modern pentathlon, a sport in which I have many years of competition and coaching experience. In that sense, I’m the thread know-it-all.
I must have missed whatever it is you have to say about modern pentathlon. You seem to be posting here solely to attack me. Isn’t that called trolling?
Yes. Have you never seen a horse nap when it goes by the in gate?
Horses are perfectly capable of objecting to the decorations on jump #9 or the person in the hat by the fence at jump 3 or the piece of paper on the steward’s clipboard. Horses are also perfectly capable of being jerks.
I cannot believe that I’m saying the above on a horse forum. We all have seen this before with ‘real’ riders.
What I saw in Gubaydallina’s ride was a decent if sticky go until she went past the in gate and then the horse napped badly and she couldn’t get it forward again. I didn’t see her doing anything objectionable.
Basically yes. The horses were all good jumpers and had been around the course numerous times with their regular riders. But still, they’re horses and there are always unknowns. There were 4 or 5 reserve horses that weren’t in the competition line up - one of these was ridden in the second round in place of the horse called Choccalino who was ridden by the hapless Japanese rider. Choccalino looked perfectly fine but that Japanese girl has been riding with the utmost incompetence for over a decade. I’m not sure why she won’t do anything to improve, especially as other Japanese riders have had their riding permission suspended due to perpetual incompetence. The Japanese don’t train in the riding which is rather shameful for the Olympic hosts.
In general, the MP horses were really, really nice horses but they also required a bit of riding, which is totally fair to ask. If you saw the American Sammy Schultz - she was the second person out on course - she rode a horse that really needed to be pushed forward. Or as she put it in her message to me ‘Omg he was a lazy guy but man could he jump.’
In case anyone is interested in seeing what a good pentathlon ride looks like, I posted the video of the Austrian athlete Gus Gustenau on my Instagram @jersporthorse.
It’s an excellent ride.
Extra unfortunate considering that the Japanese riders in the regular show jumping really represented their country well, including one rider in the jump off for an individual medal.
However, the show jumpers and eventers are based somewhere other than Japan. The eventers are usually based in the UK. The reason for this should be obvious - there’s really no access to competitions in Japan.
The Japanese pentathletes (who are a really nice, fun group) are affiliated with the Tokyo Police. (This is a common arrangement - with police units - for athletes in many sports in many countries including Italy, France, Brazil, Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc.)
However, Tokyo is not the best city in which to be an equestrian. There’s very limited access to riding (there is the Tokyo Riding Club in Yoyogi Park downtown but that’s not a place to train) with a few riding schools dotted around outside the city. it’s just not in the culture.
More alarmingly, the Japanese team brought a very small 13 year-old girl to the World Cup competitions this year. She’s a very good runner and swimmer so she placed well enough in the qualifying round (no riding) to earn a place in the final at the first WC. In the warm-up ring, it was obvious that she couldn’t ride and after she fell off, the warm-up judge eliminated her. After that, she was not allowed into another final. Yet the Japanese federation had granted her riding permission despite her lack of riding ability.
For a 13 year-old, this is child endangerment. And child abuse and endangerment is rife in Japanese sport.
Last year, Human Rights Watch issued a report on the abuse of young athletes in Japanese titled ‘I Was Hit So Many Times I Can’t Count’.
I’m posting about this because unscrupulous coaches and national federations who are willing to grant riding permission to athletes who have little-to-no riding skills are a problem in modern pentathlon. This also has to change.
While they’re at it, they should put in a minimum age for senior competition to prevent an NF from endangering a minor.
Pardon my stupid question, but can you (those using it) tell me what nap/nappy/napping means how it used here? I googled the definition and I am confused.
Usually it means reluctant to go forward, especially going away from the barn or the ingate.
Lunacy. Clinging to a “vision” from the past is causing suffering today.
UIPM President Dr. Klaus Schormann said: "UIPM remains fully committed to Riding as an integral part of the Modern Pentathlon based on the vision of Baron Pierre de Coubertin.
Pretty sure he did not envision women riding in the Olympics, either. Or if he did, it certainly took a long time to happen.
I’ve been on this board since 1999 as a fairly non-prolific and non-confrontational poster. I didn’t mean to offend, and it seems like our confusion came from me responding to your Saint Boy nappy / Kaley Cuoco offering to buy post and you thinking I was responding to your post about the first rider of the day being eliminated before entering the ring. My fault for not quoting.
The post I was responding to really seemed to blame the horse for being “nappy” rather than blame Gubaydullina for burying him to multiple fences. I guess you saw nappy, I saw survival skills. If pentathlon horses need to be able to jump happily from any distance and keep going no matter what, that’s a problem.
It sounded like he should have just been a machine and done the job regardless of the ride, which is what set many of us off in the first place - a rider should never blame the horse for their bad ride. That’s what irked me and made me respond. If you still feel I am deliberately misreading this post I apologize. I just don’t see any other way to read it.
I still think there are worse things to be than Kaley’s pet horse. Although she likely is misunderstanding who his current owners are.
You’re anthropomorphizing horses here, horses are not capable of being jerks, they don’t have a large enough prefrontal cortex to do so. This is the root of why MP is so abusive to the horses.
Horses are reactionary and feeling beings, not thinking beings like humans. They rely heavily on motor function (movement) and feeling with their senses (sight, smell, sound, pressure, pain). They don’t have much function in their brain to truly process input and most behaviour is reactionary. It is through repetitive pressure and release that we teach a horse to over come their motor instinct to perform the motor function we desire (to be still when we want them to be still and to move when we want them to move).
What you may be interpreting as “being a jerk” is their individual tolerances combined with specific training. This is actually what made Saint Boy & all other horses at the Tokyo Olympics saints is that despite the poor riding (pain) and inconsistent riding/aids (pressure without release) their individual reaction is to keep going or to “nap”. Many horses would not have this reaction & would bolt and/or buck.
I also find the wording of the warmup riders as the “professional” or “real” riders really telling. Not just from yourself but I’ve seen this wording consistently. And maybe to my point above, a real rider knows how to give and take with pressure to put the horse in a sound state of mind where they can react calmly to aids appropriately. A poor rider doesn’t understand these concepts and puts the horse into a state of mind where they experience pain or feel trapped with pressure.
And, if the sport relies on horses whose innate personality is to suffer through emotional or physical pain, what kind of sport is that?
Which as @BLBGP said “If pentathlon horses need to be able to jump happily from any distance and keep going no matter what, that’s a problem.”.
I thought this was a horse forum. Or at least it used to be.
Is a horse’s prefrontal cortex large enough for FEI children’s/student? Or IEA? Or group dude ranch trail rides? Or for my friend to get on my horse and ride?
Or have I been abusing horses by going to Mike Plumb’s and taking jumping lessons on other people’s horses? The next time I’m there, I’ll be sure to ask if what I’m doing is ok for the horse’s prefrontal cortex. I don’t want to be an animal abuser.
If you go to a horse show, you see plenty of horses who get into suboptimal distances. There are a variety of mechanism for this and a variety of reactions on the part of the horse and rider. But It seems like everyone on here suddenly believes that all rides are perfect at horse shows. I don’t get it.
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