Modern Pentathalon

[JER]

@MHM

I beg to differ.

There have been multiple posts from different people on this thread in favor of the change.

I’m fine with people having that opinion. I’m also fine with people wanting equestrian sports out of the Olympics. I’m actually ambivalent about the FEI equestrian sports - I don’t see how it benefits the sports to be in the Olympics other then a small burst of publicity for a watered-down competitions.

A discussion of all of those things is healthy. But by that I mean a legitimate discussion.

And really, there’s no need to be nasty or defensive when you express an opinion that you don’t think there should be riding in pentathlon. It’s a legit POV that really doesn’t need to come with a scolding tone or a broken record of accusations.

[sascha]

@JER

And really, there’s no need to be nasty or defensive when you express an opinion that you don’t think there should be riding in pentathlon. It’s a legit POV that really doesn’t need to come with a scolding tone or a broken record of accusations.

Nasty or defensive? Um, ok, how about frustrated and angry.

The “broken record” for prevention of additional cruelty to horses is a real bother, I’m sure. It will probably go away if you keep telling us it’s a moment in time, most athletes give the horses treats, etc. It worked for rollkur, right. Hahaha!

The thing is about the “broken record” is that should be enough to wake people up. It shouldn’t have to be a broken record. Cruelty built into the sport should have been enough for true advocates for horses to stand up and do something about it years ago … but it’s always the governing body’s fault, so …

[Equkelly]

@sascha

Nasty or defensive? Um, ok, how about frustrated and angry.

The “broken record” for prevention of additional cruelty to horses is a real bother, I’m sure. It will probably go away if you keep telling us it’s a moment in time, most athletes give the horses treats, etc. It worked for rollkur, right. Hahaha!

The thing is about the “broken record” is that should be enough to wake people up. It shouldn’t have to be a broken record. Cruelty built into the sport should have been enough for true advocates for horses to stand up and do something about it years ago … but it’s always the governing body’s fault, so …

Can you guys just reread the thread if you’d like to rehash the same talking points over and over again instead of trying to bully JER out? Some of us find her insights interesting with all the recent MP news. Or maybe you guys can just write down all your angry frustrated thoughts in a diary?

[endlessclimb]

JER is not being singled out. It’s every competitor. Every coach. Every person that claims to be a horseman and saw this stuff going on for years and didn’t do a dang thing about it but complain.

Boycott. Don’t go if the animal welfare is not up to snuff.

I don’t agree with keeping orcas in fishtanks. So, I don’t go to SeaWorld. Stop supporting the things you (supposedly) don’t agree with.

[iberianfan]

So I have read this thread with interest and I can kinda see both sides. Personally, I try to walk the walk I support (I don’t shop at certain stores, etc.)
I don’t know what I have to add,but maybe don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. @endlessclimb, there are lots of riders in lots of competitions that don’t pat the horses. It always irritates me. There are and were some pretty scary jumper riders and I would cringe watching them.

So it seems unfair to single out MP as the sport to get rid of riding, because it happens in other sports. Not every dog owner is stellar in my mind, either.

If @JER can change the sport by changing the management, then more power to her. But you will have folks in every equestrian or other animal related activity, that do not do as you would do. Simply jumping a horse is nowhere near horse tripping. Perhaps by changing management, attitudes toward the skill and care involved will change.

[JER]

@iberianfan

But you will have folks in every equestrian or other animal related activity, that do not do as you would do. Simply jumping a horse is nowhere near horse tripping. Perhaps by changing management, attitudes toward the skill and care involved will change.

Very good points.

It’s the leadership that’s refused to make the horse welfare and rider safety changes that the vast majority of pentathletes and national federations want. This has been going on for years, with non-UIPM competitions (basically everything except World Cups and World Champs) taking horse welfare seriously in their own competitions. I don’t know a single athlete who doesn’t detest the way the UIPM treats horses.

It’s also true that equestrian federations - aka ‘real horsepeople’ - have fought the same battles over the years and continue to fight the same battles with doping and welfare. It’s not just modern pentathlon and that’s why we’ve asked the equestrian community to support our efforts and offer guidance.

[brindille]

It’s really unfortunate to see someone being so incredibly rude and disrespectful. @JER, you have really helped me understand what’s happening at pentathlon and have a more nuanced view. When I came onto this board, I was hoping that equestrian would be removed from the sport. After reading your posts, I support the athletes in instituting the same rules that other equestrian disciplines must subscribe to in order to minimize animal cruelty (as much as a set of rules can…). I hope you aren’t too discouraged by the rudeness and please remember that some people - like me - have appreciated learning from you.

[JER]

Thanks!

For anyone who is interested in seeing what riding usually looks like at a pentathlon competition, this is the riding livestream from earlier today at the European U24 championships in Drzonkow, Poland. Drzonkow is a training center with a full equestrian component (for real equestrians - they have lots of horses there, most privately owned, as well as a riding school and competitions - you can even take a vacation there and take lessons on fabulous horses).

2021 European U24 pentathlon champs - riding

[trubandloki]

Is it a technology thing on my end or is that video very … um… well, so far I have seen more empty ring and horses walking than I have jumping.

A rider starts the course and the blip, I see some other rider walking.

I do like it that I have seen more than one rider wearing a safety vest.

[endlessclimb]

Not just you. Lots of times I am seeing “X obstacle faults and Y time faults” as the only portion of an entire ride.

[JER]

@trubandloki

Is it a technology thing on my end or is that video very … um… well, so far I have seen more empty ring and horses walking than I have jumping.

Must be a problem with the livestream. (But I wouldn’t claim that’s a reason for taking riding out of pentathlon.)

[JER]

@trubandloki

I do like it that I have seen more than one rider wearing a safety vest.

You’ll see this a lot in Europe now. Not just in pent but in all forms of jumping. It’s a good idea.

[trubandloki]

@JER

(But I wouldn’t claim that’s a reason for taking riding out of pentathlon.)

I was not saying this at all. I was simply asking about the video.

[JER]

@trubandloki

I was not saying this at all. I was simply asking about the video.

I was joking. I didn’t think you’d think that. But others here might.

[JER]

A couple of good articles from yesterday:

Pentathlon United issues ultimatums to UIPM as Modern Pentathlon Australia reverses backing for riding decision

The Tokyo Olympics horse punching saga sent modern pentathlon into chaos. Now the sport’s stars are in open revolt.

The second has a list of some of the main things we want to change:

Fixing modern pentathlon’s problems so that show-jumping can remain as one of the sport’s five disciplines is, on the face of it, relatively simple, according to the athletes Insider talked to.

What it needs, they said, is the following:

• More horses at competitions;
• Fewer refusals before elimination;
• Regulated standards of animal welfare and punishments for non-compliance;
• Globally standardized courses;
• Global minimum riding standards.

[MHM]

What about elimination after the fall of a horse or rider?

That’s a pretty basic horse welfare issue. Not to mention rider safety.

[endlessclimb]

And, for the love of god, lower the fence heights.

How about X number of rails down is elimination, too. If you’re knocking rails left and right, either the horse isn’t fit for the job or the riding is atrocious.

How about impartial ring stewards that can end a ride at any time, due to riding incompetence. And actually expect them to do so. There should be an uproar from the horse people if an incompetent ride is allowed to finish - not just silent cringing from the sidelines.

You don’t need more horses if the riders can actually ride. If they can actually ride, you don’t have to worry about the horse’s mood going into the second round having changed drastically.

“Regulated standards for animal welfare” sounds really good - specifics?

[JER]

@MHM

What about elimination after the fall of a horse or rider?

That’s a pretty basic horse welfare issue. Not to mention rider safety.

Yes that too. That list from the article didn’t get too granular.

We’ve been putting in that exact rule change proposal for years. The general idea is to align rules/welfare with FEI standards - and yes, I’ve written and submitted that exact rule change proposal before.

There seems to be a persistent undercurrent here that pentathletes want to get back on horses after horse and rider falls. They don’t and they hate the current rules.

[JER]

Another thing I want to clear up:

Pentathletes learn to ride the same way we learn to ride. Some are from horsey families. Many pentathletes start in Pony Club. Others ride as kids as well as doing other sports like swimming.

There aren’t special pentathlon riding schools where pentathletes learn to get back on fallen horses and chant mantras like ‘Horses are machines. Horses are a means to an end. A horse is a tool.’ Their experience of horses is usually much the same as the average rider’s.

[endlessclimb]

They don’t have to. They never have had to.