Wirt, you seem to have a real issue with CA. Why do you watch him?
You posted April 9th a similar video and comments. At that time, I asked you for help in locating your training DVDs so people like me who live a long way from any trainers can watch them and know the correct Wirt way to train horses. Or maybe you’d just like to post a video of a Wirt trained horse so I can see if that’s the result I want if I follow your method.
Since I spent a lot of time responding to your last CA post, I’m just going to paste what I wrote before. And Eqbrit, I wouldn’t presume to speak for everyone on this board. Having never met CA, I don’t know that I’d call him “wonderful” --but I do find his DVDs and methods useful. So now on to my long post from April 9th when this topic was last discussed (to death, I thought):
Yes, I am for Clinton Anderson. And here is why: (previously posted under the last CA post on the Western forum) --and a bit of new thought added at the bottom . . . and no, I’m not a Troll, or anyone other than me.
Clinton Anderson is a teacher --of horses, of people --but bottom line he has a method or lesson he has faith in, and tries to educate other people in what has worked for him.
Keeping that in mind, remember that all teachers and their methods are not acceptable nor do they work for all students. Further, every teacher has good and bad days, good and bad lessons, and again, what works for one student will not work for another. What is acceptable “discipline” to one parent is “abusive” to another.
I find both CA and John Lyons videos helpful. I’m a teacher (high school Lit and psychology). I like how CA (and JL) “write their lesson plans” in a logical method where each step builds on the other. And me PERSONALLY, I like the kind of horse that is the result of me using their methods. I like that CA’s lesson plans are about 30 min long (my attention span) and suggest working with the horse about an hour at a time (daily) --maybe a couple of times a day, but minimum hour a day with 20 min review, 20 min new stuff, and 20 min doing something the horse does well. He makes it clear that the once a week rider will not find success as quickly as someone who works with a horse daily --just like school, he said. I like that. And I like that the DVDs show common problems one will run into, and mistakes the handler/rider makes, and mistakes the horse will possibly make.
I like that CA never calls a horse bad or says the horse has a bad attitude. He makes sense to me.
I have never seen him in person, and base ALL my knowledge of him on a few DVDs that I followed along with, and then went down and practices on what he calls “a fat lazy gelding.” I don’t know how his methods would work on an OTTB, although I did train two of them ground manners using his methods quite successfully (desensitizing, staying out of my personal space, loading, backing in hand, that sort of thing --and that went well).
As I said, no teacher or trainer is beyond reproach as there are too many people who simply hold different opinions on how a lesson should be taught. I teach high school seniors. I expect hands to be raised before they speak in class. Other teachers use a more “open forum” insisting that raising hands is demeaning and indicates that the teacher is the superior (wisdom) in the classroom where ideas are all equal in value. Do my students learn less? I see it as respect where other teachers see it as forced submission.
Same with horses. I foxhunt --that can be rather violent at times with mad gallops over hills, through woods, jumping things never meant to be jumped (like hounds). Then we stop. And wait. MY HORSE stands absolutely still. He never touches the bit --as a matter of fact, I HUNT on a loose rein in a snaffle bit. My horse moves off leg and seat and pretty much has his head free. To others in the hunt -this is a sign my horse is poorly trained and I am a poor rider. I’ve been told that I should keep my horse on the bit and count my strides between fences and let him know when to jump --can’t do it, I don’t know that stuff myself. He jumps when he thinks it’s the right moment to do so and I stay out of his way. One rider asked if I didn’t mind that I couldn’t feel my horse’s mouth and have a conversation with him through my hands --um, no. She asked how I keep him from running into the horse ahead since I don’t use my reins -well, he slows when I post slower, or drop my weight into my stirrups. All of this is from CA videos. And at most checks or when I feel he’s not focused, we do the bending and releasing. It’s subtle, but we do it. Keeps him limber, light in the bridle, and remembering that I’m riding.
And to those who prefer hot horses yanking at the bits and prancing and dancing during checks --and doing some rearing and bucking now and then --I admire their ability to stay on. He did act like that when I started him, but training cured it–I don’t think my horse fears me --I do think he respects me. And before you decide I don’t ride well --I’m usually asked to ride in the Master’s pocket (right beside him) and when people need a lead over a tricky fence, it’s often my horse and me who are asked to do so -
Different people want differently trained horses. I want a quiet mount who thinks for himself. I trained my horse to do that. People who want a horse on the bit, a handful of energy, should steer clear of CA --that’s not what he’s trying to do.
Oh, and there is a fine line between fear and respect. A horse that is afraid can’t learn (neither can a student who is afraid of a teacher). But without respect, a teacher can’t teach. That CA expects (demands?) his horses respect to me is a basic element of the teaching (training) process.
New thought if you’ve read this far --specifically to OP --it is easy to surf the web and find a picture of about anyone doing something wrong. I wonder how many pictures and videos out there are of CA doing something right that you didn’t post? Frankly, if you followed me around my classroom for the last 30+ years I bet you could take a few pictures (ok, more than a few) of me being a “bad teacher” --ugly, angry face at a poor child who didn’t have his homework in , a hand on a shoulder that looks improper, a hug that might be “inappropriate.” You might even catch me pulling down my slip, or adjusting a bra strap. ALL IN A CLASSROOM!!
If you followed me around my farm you could probably take pictures of me abusing my animals. I’m sure (more than sure) that the hound whip I use in hunting was used to warn my dogs off chasing the sheep (imagine a pix of me using a small bullwhip --that’s what they look like-)- to flog my dogs! I’m sure there could be a horrible picture of me tossing a barn cat out of the barn on a snowy morning into a bank of snow (after he tripped me by wrapping around my legs) --and horse abuse, yep --follow me around with a camera and you will see me abusing my horses with spurs and whips —both of which I wear and use to the best of my ability, but if you took a photo at just the right time, would look like horse abuse to some – wonder what we could photograph you doing?
Now remember OP, CA is photographed a ton more than me in reality --and I have no doubt that those photos you posted show him doing something he shouldn’t have. He’s human –
But here’s the point of this long ramble --if you are going to point and shoot like you did in your post --I challenge you to do it better. Would you let me know where I can buy your training DVDs? Can you post a video of your trained horses in action with you doing the training? If you can’t, then what do you suggest an old lady like me do? Just let my horse sit in the barn until I magically figure out how to address his issues or improve what he does? Maybe you should figure out that even if CA and John Lyons and the other “popular” trainers aren’t what you are looking for, they do work for some people – and we who DO use and follow along with what they teach are SMART enough to know when training becomes abusive --I would never hit my horse in the eyes (although I did accidentally put a polo mallet up his nose by accident when I missed a shot) –
Oh, and another thought (geesh, I do run on) --I was trying to each my horse to back out of my personal space when I walked toward him. I was getting nowhere --doing everything the CA DVD said to do. Finally, I stepped forward, tripped, and fell flat in front of my horse who then when FLYING backwards. What I learned (by scaring the poor horse to death) was I needed to make my BODY LANGUAGE easier to read --remember I’m a little old lady and CA is a big fellow --my horse didn’t realize what I wanted because I didn’t make my cues FORCEFUL enough. If you filmed the flailing arms and huge waving gestures I made with my CA stick after that --you’d have thought I was a nut case --but my horse learned!! And now I just take a tiny step forward and he backs out of my way –
So yes --I am for Clinton Anderson --and anyone else who tries to be a teacher --we’re never going to satisfy everyone --but who can?
Foxglove
