I’ve wondered for a long time where my mare might have PSSM. It a very long story, and I made diet changes several years ago which seemed to help, but now we’re going through a rough patch again. Anyway, I was able to get a short video yesterday when her left shoulder started twitching (http://youtu.be/hfTv5PpalFk). It doesn’t happen often, generally the left shoulder, and most often when she’s a little emotional and I’ve put her in the round pen to work it off. She tears around a bit and then after she quiets and comes into the middle I’ll see the twitching. I realize the video isn’t great, but you can see a couple of points the muscle twitching sort of shakes the whole leg. Anyway, just wanted to get thoughts from anyone who’s seen PSSM up close. Could it be that? Or just the result of physical exertion?
SuckerForHorses has a horse that looks to do something quite similar. Few threads about it–one is here and the other is linked in the first post. Place to start for you, although I don’t think she’s resolved it in her horse.
I’m not a vet or a PSSM expert by any means, but that does look exactly like what a horse with PSSM that I used to know had happen after exercise or occasionally during (his more minor) attacks. I would look into testing and call the vet, better to be safe than sorry and it’s treatable with diet and exercise if she does have it.
I have seen my mare do this while being shod. She DEFINATELY has some form of metabolic issue, and though we are following PSSM protocols, I do not have a confirmed diagnosis. There will be other tell tale signs if you take the time to look hard enough.
Dig deeper.
What is your mare’s breeding?
[QUOTE=Simkie;7962604]
SuckerForHorses has a horse that looks to do something quite similar. Few threads about it–one is here and the other is linked in the first post. Place to start for you, although I don’t think she’s resolved it in her horse.
That does look VERY similar to my gelding. My gelding only does it when he’s eating his “grain” (which is really only a small amount of alfalfa soup). He does NOT do it grazing or just standing around or while working. He’s had what we are sure was a definite episode of tying up on Labor Day last year, but at this point, there is nothing we’ve diagnosed to lead us to believe it was anything but an isolated incident. It was hot, he was not cooperating during our ride, so it lasted longer than I would’ve liked, etc.
That being said, my gelding is negative for both PSSM type 1 and type 2, via first the hair DNA sample sent to Animal Genetics, and then when that was negative, we did the muscle biopsy for type 2 which was negative as well.
So, as of right now, we still don’t know what the deal is. My plan of attack is to slowly cross things off the list.
So far the things that have been considered and tested:
PSSM - both types, negative
HYPP - negative (which is not surprising, he’s not related to Impressive at all, not even close, but just to cross it off the list, it was $40 so we did it to be sure)
Vitamin E - normal
Selenium - normal
The next thing to rule out it Lyme, and potentially testing for EPM.
And OP - if you find out what’s causing this in your horse PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know!!! 
Has HYPP been ruled out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3f32Xfu_I
Here is a PSSM video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B-5E1I23iU
[QUOTE=beowulf;7967260]
Has HYPP been ruled out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3f32Xfu_I
Here is a PSSM video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B-5E1I23iU[/QUOTE]
The second one isn’t so great, but those do look very similiar to me.
Thanks everyone. I’ve seen this on and off for the last three years. The tremor doesn’t seem to bother her and she’s never had a full blown tying up episode (that I’m aware of). That said, she’s chronically stiff in the hind end, has always had trouble with her hind feet for the farrier, and is just generally not very happy. Three years ago she came back from training and came up very sore in her SI area. We ended up injecting her SIs, but she just didn’t look comfortable so after exhausting the vet’s ideas I finally turned her out to pasture. I moved to a new barn, switched her to a low carb feed, and after a few more months slowly started riding her again. We went through several periods of soreness in her hind end but could never really find anything specific. Fast forward to today, and I posted about some of our trouble a while back…http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?452543-Bucking-pain-related-Thoughts&highlight=bucking+pain
We’ve since scoped for ulcers – the vet said she’s as about as clean as they get, but we did treat her with Ulcerguard for two weeks. We also checked ovaries, ran a chemistry to check kidneys and liver, x-rayed her right pastern, hock, and stifle, and checked for hindgut ulcers using a FBT. She came back positive on both indicators so we put her on Succeed, but she doesn’t fit many of the other symptoms for a bad case of hindgut ulcers. So…vet sent us home and said we could recheck in 30 days. Vet didn’t think she was overly back sore at that time, but my mare was being so rotten that day, pretty sure the vet just thought she was over-reacting. She was sore when I palpated her at home though. Anyway, we had the chiropractor come and she adjusted pretty much everything on the horse – said she thinks there’s a pelvic or SI issue and a TMJ issue. After the adjustment I did see some improvement with the short striding on the right hind and also in her ability to cross her hinds (at least some). Neither are terrific, but it’s better than it was. We also saw the dentist a few days later and had some very minor edges removed – no indication teeth are a problem.
So yesterday we were back at the vet’s and this time we put her on the lunge line. Vet said she acts like she’s walking on egg shells and after checking hooves, flexing, etc. she palpated her top line and my mare is literally sore from head to tail. The vet thinks it’s spinal inflammation and/or neuritis (still not sure if those are the same) and recommended prednisone to help determine if it’s a primary or secondary issue. She said I’d know in a week or so if it’s helping and then we’ll decide on next steps. I know she’s concerned about EPM, but we’ll see.
Back to the muscle twitching…my mare get 1-2 flakes of alfalfa plus another 3+ of coastal, 2 cups alfalfa pellets, Succeed, and Mag Restore. Unfortunately I have no idea about her breeding. Quarter type, but doesn’t appear to be halter bred. If the vet decides the primary issue is with the muscles, I’m guessing we’ll test for PSSM and HYPP.
Oy. I know that’s long. Sorry. And SFH, I will absolutely let you know if we figure out the muscle piece of this puzzle!
Test for HYPP especially not knowing her breeding. It’s only $40
[QUOTE=seggypoo;7968159]
The vet thinks it’s spinal inflammation and/or neuritis (still not sure if those are the same) and recommended prednisone to help determine if it’s a primary or secondary issue. She said I’d know in a week or so if it’s helping and then we’ll decide on next steps. I know she’s concerned about EPM, but we’ll see.[/QUOTE]
With the neuro pain specifically, gabapentin is definitely worth a shot. Relatively cheap through CostCo or Walgreens. This dose:
http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.231.5.755?journalCode=javma&
I agree that testing for HYPP is a really, really good first step. Absolutely. Cheap and with unknown breeding–you need to rule it out.
I would definitely have her tested for HYPP and PSSM1. Cheap and easy! I went through the “what is wrong with my horse?” with 2 of mine and both were eventually diagnosed with PSSM via muscle biopsy (which I didn’t think was as horrible as I have seen it described!) neither of mine exhibited a full blown tie up ever. My one gelding was always stiff in the hind end. The other would eventually get sore and locked in his pelvis with work andd would become short and hoppy on his right hind. Good luck I totally know how frustrating it is!
[QUOTE=CC;7968979]
I would definitely have her tested for HYPP and PSSM1. Cheap and easy! I went through the “what is wrong with my horse?” with 2 of mine and both were eventually diagnosed with PSSM via muscle biopsy (which I didn’t think was as horrible as I have seen it described!) neither of mine exhibited a full blown tie up ever. My one gelding was always stiff in the hind end. The other would eventually get sore and locked in his pelvis with work andd would become short and hoppy on his right hind. Good luck I totally know how frustrating it is![/QUOTE]
I agree with the bold. Invasive, sure, you’re cutting out a chunk of muscle, but my gelding had no ill effects from it, it healed quickly, and now the only way you can tell he had one, is because his hair hasn’t completely grown back where the vet shaved it. :lol: It was worth KNOWING (and in my case, knowing that my horse did NOT have PSSM so we could continue trying to figure out what his issue is).
Here is a video of my horse’s biopsy procedure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTXHc0s2eno
Thanks for the gabapentin info Simkie. I’m not familiar with it so I’m going to talk to the vet just to make sure there’s no problem since she’s on the prednisone now.
I’ll talk to the vet about doing an HYPP test too. I’d like to test for PSSM1 while we’re at it since both of those are relatively cheap and easy. I think the vet had a couple of other ideas too b/c she mentioned something about a 5 test panel if we investigate the muscle involvement more.
I LOVED being able to see the muscle biopsy! So cool! Thanks for that SFH. It doesn’t look nearly as bad as I thought. Sounds like both you and CC would do it again so that’s helpful.
I would absolutely do it again if I felt the need to based on symptoms. My gelding had a lot of the symptoms of PSSM. If I had just assumed it was PSSM and changed diet, I wouldn’t be helping anything, because he does NOT have PSSM. And as frustrating as it is that I still haven’t pinpointed his issue, at least I know it’s not PSSM.
Yep would totally do the biopsy again if warranted. I’ve done it for 2 horses and both were positive. The symptoms can mimic so many other conditions, I wanted to be sure. And luckily, my TB was positive because TB biopsies can apparently be inconclusive at times.
I have two mares (half-sisters) who get a similar shoulder twitch. No AQHA blood at all. I tried supplementing magnesium and other minerals to no effect. I discovered that supplementing with ALCAR 100% fixes it. I get mine from mybesthorse.com I am not affiliated with them… but if they see this and want to give me free ALCAR for life I will accept 
[QUOTE=Helicon;7973929]
I have two mares (half-sisters) who get a similar shoulder twitch. No AQHA blood at all. I tried supplementing magnesium and other minerals to no effect. I discovered that supplementing with ALCAR 100% fixes it. I get mine from mybesthorse.com I am not affiliated with them… but if they see this and want to give me free ALCAR for life I will accept :)[/QUOTE]
That is wonderful!
But, I am the type of person who wants to know WHY it fixed it :lol: Has your vet had any ideas about why ALCAR may have diminished the issue?
