My friends trainer might be abusing her horses, how do I tell her?

Long ago a friend of mine and I moved to the same barn at the same time but went to two completely different trainers. I like her trainer, he’s a nice guy and has always been friendly towards me and my team, but I’ve always noticed how odd he treated his horses and how usually all the horses in his possession either were bad stoppers at even Crossrails (even when they would be bought right after winning 1.20 and up courses and being marketed as automatic) or they were always dragging their hands and legs which would cause them to knock most if not all the jumps. They were also pretty skinny but when I first asked around most people told me that some people just needed skinnier horses or they would get dragged and I in my naievety believed them.

Now, as someone who knows better, I know he has under-muscled and skinny horses who aren’t trained very ethically or at least not well. A lot of people say that he treats horses like machines instead of horses, never feeding them treats or actually thanking them for a good job after a hard day, never spending time off saddle with them, never even trying to at least one day of the week let them run around a paddock without a rider on them, and always using long whips to scold them if they refuse (and I mean scold by leaving marks on them), its rare for a horse of him not to have scars from either spurs or whips. I got my last guy (the one I sold recently) from him and that horse did a complete 180, from a lazy unmotivated guy to a competitive and fast jumper who was super clean and won, as well as a horse that actually had muscle instead of just a tummy. He did end up having a bad personality and that’s when I realized why he had been so lazy and ‘well behaved’ when he had been under that trainer, it was because he was underfed and didn’t have the energy.

The point is, my friend has recently changed from her last mare to a very nice gelding claiming the mare was a nightmare (they had bought her jumping 1.10m no issues and in under a month she completely changed) and she needed a change of pace. That mare always had spur marks, refused everything, and when people wanted to pet her she lashed out without warning when when she came here for the first month she was a cuddle bug! When I asked my friend about the spur marks she said her trainer said it was normal for misbehaved horses to get scolded so severely and that the trainer had even left those marks himself! Its gotten to the point where her new gelding already has marks now and recently the people that bought my old horse have decided to start classes with this trainer this month and I’m worried he might get neglected like he used to be or worse.

My question is, is this a serious issue or am I overthinking it? What should I do? Should I get involved or am I just being dramatic?

2 Likes

I’m a little confused here.

This trainer buys 1. 2 meter horses and then messes them up so bad they can’t do cross rails? I would think that would make his clients disappear.

As far as the other issues, I’d really need to see photos before I judged a horse as too skinny. Are you familiar with the 10 point Henneke body scoring system? Where I live most horses are obese, and people are alarmed if they can actually see a rib. But a horse at racing fit 4 or 4.5 on the score is healthier than a 7 pudgeball pony about the founder.

Second, I’ve never seen whip marks left on a horse even if a horse is whipped. And spur marks can rub off hair, harmless, or else break the skin and create a small amount of blood. That’s bad, but it is also something you’d need to look closely to see. Most cuts and scrapes on horses come from rubbing on stalls or trees, or playing or fighting with other horses.

As far as attitude to horses many perfectly fine trainers have a businesslike attitude to their horses, don’t hand feed treats, and don’t give verbal praise or sweet talk. A good rider can give a reward through release of pressure and body cues.

Anyhow, it’s possible this is an exceptionally rough and incompetent trainer. You say “a lot of people” are saying this. Who? Are they credible? Why hasn’t your friend heard?

Do you yourself have proof of any of this, or are you going by gossip?

If you have some concrete observations you can mention them to your friend. But in my experience no one will hear anything bad about their coach until they are ready. So I wouldn’t expect your friend to believe you or to leave her trainer.

There are trainers everywhere on the harsh or incompetent end of things for any given community who are nevertheless still within the social norms for that community. It’s generally impossible to get your friends to leave those trainers until they have a change of heart.

8 Likes

He usually gets really young clients and clients that don’t know much about horses so he is constantly filled with new clients and very loyal one’s at that that believe a lot of what he says.

And yup! I know the point system and out of 10 I’d rate them a 3 on a good day? But its only fat, no muscle whatsoever and considering he jumps them almost daily you would think they would at least get some neck muscles. He also doesn’t try to get them to learn to carry themselves and instead just pulls on their mouths whenever he rides them (the times I have seen him at least and in shows).

Sadly I have. Once, a pony threw a girl off and the trainer got on and the second the pony refused a vertical he got the long whip and just started whipping the horse. It was so bad that he ended up actually leaving bloody marks on the pony. And by spur marks I don’t mean the usually silly rub or small cut, like their whole side is filled with cuts, scrapes, and scars from long time injuries by the over use of spurs. And as well as a lot of lame horses because of how much they hit bars with their hands and legs, and scars on their extremities too.

I agree to that! Attitude between trainers is different but even the business like trainers at least pat their horses or give them release from the pressure when they’re done and let them cool down with a couple walking laps but instead he keeps yanking on the horses mouth all the way to their stall and then leaves them there but maybe this is common and I might just be over thinking it.

By people I mean a lot of the horse people around the show area here, especially in our club. Grooms, other trainers and even a couple of ex-students and I’ve also witnessed a lot of the treatment which is why I became a bit worried. And we tried telling her a couple months ago when she had her mare but she claimed her mare just sucked and was a b*tch which was why her trainer had to be tougher. I know she loves her horses but she never spends time off saddle with them anymore after getting with this trainer, she never even brushes them or plays around with them in turn out.

If this trainer is part of a club, and his behavior is noted by other trainers and by responsible adults, why aren’t they doing something about it? If it’s as bad as you say, then everyone should be stepping forward to shut him down or at least remove him from your club.

BTW a horse that is Henneke 3 has no body fat.

If what you are saying is accurate, displaying this behavior could get him banned from horse shows in the US, but I realize you don’t live there. So standards might be different there.

6 Likes

If a trainer really does have few horses that don’t have scars from spurs or whips, I would think that would be pretty widely known. As well as competing horses at BCS of 3, which would be quite appalling and also highly unlikely to win anything (ever, anywhere).

As for a lot of the rest - I would not expect the trainer to feed treats, “thank horses for a good job”, or spend time off saddle with them. This is their job. These are not their pets. I don’t do a lot of that either, and my horses are retired in my backyard. They don’t need treats. They don’t need “thank you’s” because they don’t know what that word means anyway. And being a “cuddle bug” is no trait of being kept well or not. Some horses are never cuddly, no matter how they are kept.

As for this - it sounds like your friend and the trainer are meant for each other if this her is her sentiment. Is she 13 or something?

8 Likes

How can horses hit their hands on jumps?

12 Likes

By whip marks and spur marks do you mean welts like raised / swollen marks? If so, that may very well be classified as abuse depending on who you ask. It is IMO, but I’m not the “law”.

Telling your friend is most likely futile. If, big IF, you have evidence of illegal abuse then I would think reporting to the applicable authorities is the most logical action.

It’s perfectly understandable and acceptable to choose not to train under any person/ideology that you deem inappropriate.

If you want to control the training methods applied to your former horse your best bet is to try and buy him back.

3 Likes

Not sure how they say it in English but let me try to explain. Like they are always dropping bars and hitting their hands against them because they don’t lift the hands while jumping. Lets say in a 6 jump small course they at least knock down 5 bars and end up walking ‘funny’ from hurting themselves.

In mexico i guess people mind their own business so to say, they don’t get involved with trainers like that and just avoid them. Even at the club/barn people just comment about it and feel sorry for the horses but they say that since its not their horse its not their problem which is why i feel like maybe I’m just being nosy.

Yeah, he is widely known to have a lot of horses with scars on them, especially the younger ones since I’ve heard him say that they need to be handled with a ‘tougher hand’.

Oh yeah I get that, when I meant a cuddle bug I mean she never lashed out or bucked, and when you would come pet her or try to put on equipment she would be calm but suddenly a month later you would get close to her and she would lash out, refuse to come out of her stall, and if you tried to pet her or put on a halter she would try to bite you. It was a jarring change. I have a horse that is not at all cuddly but he’s always been that way, I was just surprised the mare changed from such a calm tempermant to such an aggressive/defensive one.

We’re both 19 turning 20 but she wasn’t like this before, she said she trusts her trainer and if her trainer is saying to be hard on her horses then thats how she has to be since her horses are ‘hard to ride’.

More like cuts from the whip (like long cuts, not sure how to explain it) and their sides are covered in spur scars and fresh cuts from them. The trainer always gives spurs to his students even if the horse doesn’t need them or even if they were doing fine without them.

Yeah, I just wish there was a way to stop him from hurting my past horse. He is a bit on the naughty side and isn’t the most honest jumper and I’m scared he might lower his food intake and just beat him to get him to jump when it took me years to make him learn to enjoy working.

1 Like

You have no control over what happened to your horse before you bought him, so let go of that anxiety or guiit.

It would take an awful lot of whip pressure to actually break the skin. Spur rubs happen more easily. Indeed, they can happen from riders that just have unsteady legs and aren’t particularly rough. And the hair can get worn off by riders who clutch with their legs too much.

The relevant question to ask your friend is: you bought a horse going 1 meter and after a year in this program it can’t do crossrails. Is this program working for you?

It’s also possible your friend doesn’t have a problem with brutality, either culturally or personally. Some of riders like to believe they have tough horses. Some riders like to express their anger and frustration on their horse. I grew up with a few teenage girls that did this.

4 Likes

Yeah I know but it took me so much to get him to enjoy working and I am so scared how this trainer will treat him the second he misbehaves.

Yeah, which is why everyone is sort of shocked and even the horses in teh arena startle every time those students and trainer whip their horses, its so hard and if it were a short whip maybe it wouldn’t break skin but with the long dressage whip they do break skin.

I agree! I used to be that way, had to teach myself that these animals don’t speak our language and if they misbehave I just need to change how i’m asking and I have to breath in before asking again but I don’t think its anger I just think that that whole team thinks thats how you teach a horse to work.

1 Like

Are you saying that you bought your pony from Brutal Trainer, fixed him, and then sold him back to Brutal Trainer, already knowing what this trainer was like? If so, I am completely confused. Why would you do that?

If this level of abuse is tolerated by other adults and trainers at your club, there is little you can do to change it. Do you have a national equestrian federation and does it have any rules on cruelty? I would contact them about this.

When I was a kid, there was a lot of casual cruelty towards horses, and everyone looked the other way. There’s been a big change in many areas in 40 years here.

2 Likes

No no! I bought him from someone else and sold him to someone who was riding at the club that liked him but they were riding with a different trainer and this week I saw them riding with Brutal trainer and thats why I started worrying.

Maybe I should contact the federation but I’m worried I’ll blow the whistle but no one will do anything ;-;

If you don’t blow the whistle, definitely nothing will happen.

4 Likes

The first step is to contact your national federation and see what rules and sanctions they have.

If they have sanctions that apply, you can lodge a complaint, if that safe for you.

You also need to look at the rules for your club. When you say club, is this a nonprofit entity that people join as members and get to vote for directors? Or is it a privately owned stables?

If it’s a nonprofit there will be rules and some way for members to voice concerns.

First step is get ahold of the rules. If the rules are being broken, report him.

If there are no rules against cruelty, you may need to get involved in the governance of the club and propose new rules for the members to vote on at the annual geberal meeting.

5 Likes

Tell your friend your concerns, hopefully it will open the door to further discussion.

1 Like

But be aware she might dismiss everything you say.

2 Likes

that is not a nice guy, nor a good trainer

2 Likes