My Horse Won't Move Once Mounted

[Jealoushe]

Back story - 4 (almost 5) year old Trak/Thoroughbred who given to me by a friend. He lived in a field until late 3 year old, then was taken out to be broke. He was backed by my friend but they had a few bad rides and she pretty much had enough with him. He bucked her off once, and another time went to buck, she pulled his head up and he hit her in the head, then panicked and fell over.

I got him October last year, and quickly realized he was not ready to be ridden. I did a tonne of ground work with him, ground driving, lungeing etc. He did very well all this and was a lot more relaxed and trusting to be around. I started riding him again in late January and things were going pretty well. I took a few weeks off working with him due to time restrictions and when I went back to riding him he developed this new thing.

Once I mount, he won’t go forward. He is trained to go off the leg, he knows what leg on means, he knows how to move sideways away from my leg. I usually sit and wait a few minutes, or try and turn him on a circle. I have not used a whip as I worry he will either bolt or buck as he is quite sensitive. When I finally do get him moving he threatens to buck, kicks out, etc then stops and won’t move again.

I can usually get him going but it takes me anywhere from 20- 30 minutes to get the ball rolling. In the first few minutes when he is moving he tries everything to not do work. Buck, kick out, bolt, stop. Once we DO get going, he goes along quite nicely!.. I have tried several different saddles, all with the same behavior. He is absolutely an angel on the lunge, and very good when we do get moving so I am not thinking it is pain related. He was (not anymore) a bit tense when saddled and would sometimes hop after asking to walk forward.

I have ridden some very difficult horses in my life but I have never experienced a horse quite like this. The more consistently I work him the better it gets, but if we take even one day off we start all over again. Anyone with similar experience?

Advice?

[Ibex]

Honestly sounds like discomfort… As a baby, and even slightly now, my mare will be like this although to a much lesser degree when her saddle bugs her.

[CHT]

Could also be a mental block because of bad experiences. Do you have someone that could pony you? Or a horse that yours would follow? This may distract him enough from the fact he is being ridden to give it a try.

You could also try just sitting there until he gets bored and walks off and then just do a more or less passenger ride, slowing increasing your imput into what you do.

What about an anti-anxiety medication for short term?

[Jealoushe]

It could be discomfort I guess…he is having his teeth done soon but the weird thing is that he was never like this until after his little vacation. He would still be a brat and try and buck and kick out and bolt, but he moved at least.

Now he does that to a much less degree and just won’t move. He is completely normal on the lunge. Would my weight in the saddle make a huge difference if he seems happy without me?

Ponying would be good, I unfortunately have no one here to help with that. My friend is coming over to ride on Sunday so I will try the follow the leader and see how that goes.

[Tif_Ann]

Not being there, and not having sat on the horse, it sounds like learned behavior to me. He’s learned that a little buck, a little bolt, a little anything means he can stand. He knows he can get away with it for quite some time. I’ve known a few horses like this, and ultimately, you have to make them move.

If you are not willing or able to ride out the naughty behavior a few times, so he knows he can’t get away with it, is there someone you can hire who will? A trainer?

Of course, this is after all physical stuff is ruled out. However I’ve seen this behavior often enough in horses who have had some time off and/or who have learned it works, that my guess would not be physical, but behavioural.

[mickeydoodle]

Sounds like he enjoyed his vacation too much. I would suggest not riding him until you can have help on the ground, the more times he pulls these shenanigans with success (being stupid for 20-30 min) the more they might be entrenched in his brain.

When you have a ground person, start riding him on the lunge line- with the ground person having a nice whip and you a bucking strap. He has to learn that his tantrums are not acceptable.

I agree with you it is unlikely to be sudden pain-after all even the old dressage guys made their horses go forward long before anyone thought about saddle fit, teeth, etc. The old dressage gods slapped their Stuben saddles on and went.

[crystalyoung1]

My 4yo did something similar. She had been fine working with me W-T-C then started acting naughty at mounting block. this progressed to the point of her biting me or my trainer at her head. We ultimatly found she had EPM and her first symptom was grumpy/cranky attitude. She also was fine on the longe but naughty with my weight on her back:eek:. Please consider the possibility of pain with your fellow.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I agree about riding this out - with a longe line person at your side. Mount with a person on the ground with a longe line, turn him to go and leg leg, and immediately reinforce that with a bat. Have the ground person follow his heels with a whip. Be ready for him to surge forward, but the longe person can bring him back. Really be agressive, and have this out with him, and you have to win.

Standing is HIS victory. Moving is yours, so there is no "moment of rest’ for him, only more work. If you can’t do this, you will be teaching him to stand and not respond to you and this has to be the end of this, really.

[mademoiselle]

I’m thinking that it is a behaviour problem for a couple of reasons :

• First, you said that he didn’t start in life with the best attitude (bucked his owner off and was on the naughty side).

You gave him plenty of time off and took your time to restart him properly.

• Most horses (everybody don’t jump on my throat, I said most not all;)) that are in pain feel better after some time off rather than when they are in full work. But it seems that the OP’s horse is worst after time off.

• You said that it gets better as you ride. Well, same thing, if his back/mouth/neck hurts, the more you are going to work him, the more reluctant he will be.

I would take the spurs off … I hate spurs on young or ‘balky’ horses, because I feel that some resent them. And one of the good tools is to flap your legs or to give them a good old pony club kick.

I would put him in a round pen. Grab a bat, have a ground person and let him know that the only option he has is to go forward. If he does, I would get off and rinse and repeat till he is not questioning it…

Or send him to me

This morning, I was riding my 4YO colt and all he wanted to do was scream at the mares in the pastures around the ring and stop and refuse to move.
A couple of well timed whacks, a couple of pony club kicks and a handfull of hand gallops in the ring and everything was much better. He was round, supple, forward … and happy.

[SisterToSoreFoot]

[QUOTE=CHT;6265155]
Could also be a mental block because of bad experiences. Do you have someone that could pony you? Or a horse that yours would follow? This may distract him enough from the fact he is being ridden to give it a try.

You could also try just sitting there until he gets bored and walks off and then just do a more or less passenger ride, slowing increasing your imput into what you do.

What about an anti-anxiety medication for short term?[/QUOTE]

CHT’s suggestion is intriguing. It reminds me of a story I heard about a horse that kept backing up. The trainer, rather than engaging in the fight the horse was spoiling for, simply kept asking him to backup even when he stopped of his own accord. So the horse’s naughty behavior was now being asked for (switching up the power dynamic), and the horse got really tired of backing up. A few rounds of this and the problem was solved.

Make him stand at the block for a really long time. See if he gets antsy but keep him standing. Wait him out. He might get so tired of it that he won’t want to play this game again. It’s a counterintuitive approach but it may work, and probably won’t get you killed.

[ASBJumper]

… (going by your blog…) is this the same horse who reared and flipped on the crossties, hitting his head in the process, just 5-6 weeks ago??

If so, he may have an injury your vet didn’t find - did you send him to Ste-Hy or Guelph for a full work-up?

[englishcowgirl]

I fixed one like this!!! Maybe the experience can help! Mine was a middle aged horse that had been sent to multiple trainers and no one could get him to move forward. He would let you sit on him, but just stand there no matter what the rider did. You are going to need to have some time when you approach this. What I did was take a dressage whip and tie a bunch on pom poms on the end. Then I sat up on this horse and just tapped (tiny little soft annoying taps) behind the girth by my heel. The poms were to give a greater surface area and to keep it rather annoying. It took almost 2 hours the first time but horsie eventually stepped forward and tapping stopped. Next time, 10 minutes then we were walking! He was consistent after 3 sessions and I am told that he will do anything you ask if you even threaten to tap your finger on him :lol: I basically annoyed this horse into working, and it really did work without much drama. This one was also a sourpuss and a drama queen,

[RTF]

you cannot teach a horse a, go forward leg cue, from the ground. You get on a horse for the first time, and they HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE TO WHAT THE LEG MEANS. you can get a sideways step, but that is different from forward. I train my horse with a lunge whip to go forward ( very nicely by all means) and then progress to a dressage whip in hand, on the ground. I desentize them to the tools first…until they are almost too dead and realxed with them. I want them bored, but understanding and totally comfortable. From the first ride, I ride with the dressage whip, I give a little squeeze with my leg, then a bump then a touch/tap with the whip until I get a step. Then stop, praise, release. IF THE HORSE IS SCARED OF THE TOOLS THEN BY GOLLY TAKE THE TIME AND FIX IT. I wouldn’t want any horse of mine to be scared of something that helps me teach them.

Here is the deal though with what you describe. You have to get a newbie to go. you may need a helper, for his sake and yours. you have to be willing to do what it takes, but by all means, if it is as bad as you say…send him to someone that has started babies/youngsters. I have done 10, I consider myself OK with a grasp on it. Find someone that has done 250 and has done it WELL. That person can help him, and knows what they are doing. The first 90 days can make or break a horse. You don’t want another bad experience. I feel for the horse when I read this stuff.

[Justice_for_Horses]

[QUOTE=ASBJumper;6265377]
… (going by your blog…) is this the same horse who reared and flipped on the crossties, hitting his head in the process, just 5-6 weeks ago??

If so, he may have an injury your vet didn’t find - did you send him to Ste-Hy or Guelph for a full work-up?[/QUOTE]
After reading the blog, I am reasonably sure this is the same horse. If so, this horse has serious pain issues. I would have his back and neck radiographed and also a neurological exam done.

[alto]

@Jealoushe;6265217

He is completely normal on the lunge. Would my weight in the saddle make a huge difference if he seems happy without me?

Absolutley re saddle fit - depending on how sensitive he is, the saddle might be pressing or blocking him somewhere once your weight is added.
Have you had someone check the saddle fit with you riding?

Has he been thoroughly checked for back soreness?
If he did go over, he may’ve broken a spinal process in the withers (often difficult to tell without Xrays) & saddle + rider = pain

[sdlbredfan]

I agree on needs thorough exam for neuro/spinal issues after flipping.

[RTF]

after reading the blog. if its the same horse…make sure its not in pain. I gave my youngster 3 weeks off after he had his wolf teeth pulled. You do not want to go any further until he is deemed, “Ok’ed” by a vet

[mademoiselle]

Ok, I hadn’t read the blog …
If the horse flipped, then that’s the 1st thing you should look at :yes:

[Petstorejunkie]

He could have a pinched nerve from the saddle. could be that it puts pressure on all the wrong places… it could be a number of things

He’s trying to tell you something, and it’s not eff you.

[staceyk]

not a trainer – just a thought

Heck, he could have ulcers or navicular or TMJ or… In my experience it’s all too common to spend thousands of dollars at vet clinics and get no answers. It’s easy to suggest too, when it’s not your money, but I wouldn’t go there quite yet. Certainly palpate all over, if you haven’t, and do a few neuro tests on your own, but if he is not showing pain in the paddock or after you start working, I’d hold off on the big ticket vet visit.

Would you feel comfortable getting on bareback? Have you tried lungeing with the saddle on beforehand (I assume you have)? Even something ridiculous like putting a tub of grain or treats ten or so feet in front of him, or something a little scary behind him. Change things up like moving the mounting block to face the exit or mounting from the right side? Maybe do carrot stretches while mounted before you move off?

Having someone on the ground would give you more options.

Best of luck, it sounds like you are taking on a challenging project!