My Horse Won't Move Once Mounted

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;6267409]
Okaaaay, it chaps my rear end when someone asks for help and then people with oodles of experience offer just that and they get all snarky. Unless the horse was genetically engineered with a few fainting goat genes, getting scared, falling over and laying there is very NOT normal. Grand mal seizure - NOT normal. Severe concussion - can easily cause lasting balance /perception issues and/or pain. Previously rideable horse balking at the mounting block - NOT normal. The horse’s balance, mental condition and physical state would be at the top of my rule out list, in that order. But hey, you know he’s fine. Whatever, OP. Good luck with your perfectly normal, 100% perfect horse.[/QUOTE]

Yeah and I’m the one being snarky?

My reply was simply to state that you were commenting on things when you didn’t read what I had wrote. I’m all for hearing opinions and getting help even if I don’t agree with it, but I don’t need to be attacked.

[SisterToSoreFoot]

If the horse looks good at liberty, and has always had an iffy undersaddle attitude, I wouldn’t assume pain either. Especially because he works out of it. Why would he work out of it if he has kissing spines, brain damage, EPM, cat scratch fever, imbalanced humors etc etc etc??? I think its fine to mention such possibilities but I don’t think its fair to attack the OP for not pursuing that course without seeing if its a training issue first. The money that would go towards a full body scan would be better spent on a trainer, for you, the horse, or both.

Balking and planting are typical young horse evasions. You get on, he doesn’t want to work, so he plants his feet. It’s as likely a power thing as it is a pain thing. And, to the posters that are surprised by this new behavior, young horses try new evasions all the time. It’s part of testing/establishing hierarchy. Not sure what kind of horse y’all been riding but my 5 year old pony cross has a big bag of tricks and he likes to think of new ones when I get around the old ones.

I do think you need to make sure you’re not overthinking his behavior and walking on eggshells around him. Carry a whip and use it, at least at first during the better part of the ride. Treat him like a fragile horse with emotional scars and that’s what he’ll be. Treat him like a horse with a lot of promise with a little training issue, and that’s what he’ll be.

[moonriverfarm]

I had a young horse who was never again right after an injury (that did not involve his head - but a nasty spill on asphalt and resulting fetlock infection) Something was causing him pain when he moved forward, therefore he did not want to move. He got angrier and angrier until we figured out he was hurting. SO I agree with the other posters that a full workup needs to be done on your horse. Horses are not by nature nasty animals - either we make them nasty or pain makes them nasty. Even the balkiest babies will eventually move forward.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=hundredacres;6267420]
I have never, ever put 100% confidence an any vet if the horse is still NQR. They make mistakes. I know my horses better than they do and if I think something is wrong and the attending vet doesn’t, I seek out a 2nd opinion. From what you’re telling us in these posts, something IS wrong. This wouldn’t be the first time that the hundreds of years of combined experience of the posters on +COTH have solved a problem that a farm vet couldn’t.

My advice is to tell ALL of this to another vet.[/QUOTE]

Yeah you are right… I will call another vet and get him looked at again…I am feeling pretty depressed now.

Thanks everyone.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=SisterToSoreFoot;6267440]

Balking and planting are typical young horse evasions. You get on, he doesn’t want to work, so he plants his feet. It’s as likely a power thing as it is a pain thing. And, to the posters that are surprised by this new behavior, young horses try new evasions all the time. It’s part of testing/establishing hierarchy. Not sure what kind of horse y’all been riding but my 5 year old pony cross has a big bag of tricks and he likes to think of new ones when I get around the old ones.

I do think you need to make sure you’re not overthinking his behavior and walking on eggshells around him. Carry a whip and use it, at least at first during the better part of the ride. Treat him like a fragile horse with emotional scars and that’s what he’ll be. Treat him like a horse with a lot of promise with a little training issue, and that’s what he’ll be.[/QUOTE]

Yes, this is exactly what I feel like he does. Bucking doesn’t work so he bolts, bolting doesn’t work so he stops. Once I don’t give up then he goes on normally. Just sometimes takes a while to get there…and you are right. I do treat him like he has emotional scars…maybe that is part of the problem.

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=moonriverfarm;6267446]
I had a young horse who was never again right after an injury (that did not involve his head - but a nasty spill on asphalt and resulting fetlock infection) Something was causing him pain when he moved forward, therefore he did not want to move. He got angrier and angrier until we figured out he was hurting. SO I agree with the other posters that a full workup needs to be done on your horse. Horses are not by nature nasty animals - either we make them nasty or pain makes them nasty. Even the balkiest babies will eventually move forward.[/QUOTE]

He doesn’t get angry at all, his ears do not go back the entire time I am on him. He lets me get on and stands happily. He does eventually move forward as well and then carries on quite nicely.

I don’t know what exactly happened in his past life, but he was very nervous of being touched and blanketed etc when I first got him. I would say he was almost like a wild horse never being handled a whole lot his entire life until he was 4 and ready to be backed.

[SisterToSoreFoot]

Don’t feel depressed. If you really don’t think its physical, don’t waste the money to please COTHers. If this conversation is triggering some instinct of yours to get him back to the vet, then of course go for it. I wouldn’t let the 'net dictate my spending or alter my instincts about a horse I work with daily.

Balking/planting is really common. It isn’t a nasty behavior. The horse works past it. The morgan I worked with did it sometimes, and he worked past it.
And for what its worth my old horse flipped in the cross ties in his youth and in the pasture on ICE at age 19 and in both cases he was 100% fine. In fact he was so fine after the flip outside that I rode him that very day and had a lovely dressage ride. Of course he was made of iron–those Irish Castle lines and alll…anyway getting off topic here.

Do what your gut says.

[hundredacres]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;6267450]
Yeah you are right… I will call another vet and get him looked at again…I am feeling pretty depressed now.

Thanks everyone.[/QUOTE]

Don’t feel depressed, just be proactive for your horse. You know that horse and if you have an inkling things aren’t right (and I believe you do, which is why you posted), the best thing is to have him looked over. I hope it isn’t anything serious, but most importantly I hope you get answers. It’s really frustrating trying to diagnosis horses on our own - we all try to do it so you’re not terrible for that. But ultimately a medical work up is the most logical thing to start with. Good luck and keep us posted.

[alicen]

@Jealoushe;6265145

He was (not anymore) a bit tense when saddled and would sometimes hop after asking to walk forward.

Have you tried longeing him with his saddle on before mounting him? The above behavior suggests the possibility of cold back syndrome.

[alto]

If you just go on straight percentages or probablilities, chances are it’s mental rather than a bizarre medical condition (except if you go to the breeding forum, it’s full of, well horse is not riding sound so she can be a broodmare … so perhaps the incidence of neuro issues & kissing spines & neck lesions & shoulder lesions et al, that all create unrideable horses will become much more common) - so investigate pain issues & apply a reasonable effort to rule them out, use the internet as a sounding board & a place for ideas, don’t let it dictate.

Conjecture is all very well but to presume to diagnose a horse that you’ve never even seen a video of

[hundredacres]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;6267459]
Yes, this is exactly what I feel like he does. Bucking doesn’t work so he bolts, bolting doesn’t work so he stops. Once I don’t give up then he goes on normally. Just sometimes takes a while to get there…and you are right. I do treat him like he has emotional scars…maybe that is part of the problem.[/QUOTE]

One more thing: once you rule out medical issues, the next step would be to have a professional come and evaluate you and your horse in handling and under saddle. There is no shame in realizing that we aren’t equipped to work our horse through every problem. I’ve handled and had dozens of horses but personally, if this were my horse and I knew we weren’t looking at a medical problem, I’d be seeking help from both a trainer and an instructor. We aren’t born knowing how to train horses, we learn by doing, but I would hate for you to get hurt attempting to work through these issues on your own when it isn’t something you’ve done before.

Again, I wish you both luck!

[mickeydoodle]

I would add to the don’t be depressed crowd. If these same people who tell you how awful you are, worship the old dressage gods, dead or alive, none of the ODG thought of any of the new diagnoses like kissing spines. They slapped their flat, narrow gullet, stiff saddles on, and off they went.

Your horse sounds naughty, and re-training the naughty out of him is indicated.

[Jamus]

Did a quick look through the other responses and I did not see a comment about the possibilities of ulcers.

My TB would stop and refuse to go forward, threatening to buck if I pushed too hard. A clinician suggested that he may have ulcers.

I treated him and his attitude changed completely.

There is a super article here that may give you some added insight:

http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm

[horseofcorff]

It sounds like he does not know his job and since he is confused, he would rather freeze than do it wrong. The kicking out is his frustration with not knowing what you want. Our mare did that until we realized she just tries too hard. We solved the problem. I stood in the middle of the round pen and pretended to lunge her (with no lunge line). The trainer would give her leg pressure and at the exact same time, I would say “walk-on” and snap the lunge whip. We practiced starts and stops and after about 6 of them changed it to giving the command and showing the whip after 2 seconds of leg pressure (or a kick), so she could make the connection and after about 4 more of those sessions, she made the connection that the leg meant move forward. She still has a little lag time. This is a video of her progress after about six rides. She is not consistent yet, but she is doing fine for her age and the amount of sessions she has had. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycftbHqkOGs

[easyrider]

[QUOTE=BarbB;6266890]
I had a friend lead her around in a round pen with carrots with me sitting on her like a 3 year old on a pony ride. Eventually she actually took a breath and then she started listening to me.

I do agree with other posters that this could very well be a pain issue for your horse, I just wanted to share a different experience.[/QUOTE]

My advice is the same as Barb’s. I’ve taken a rein in my hand and some carrots and completely disarmed the plant more than once with a rider aboard. If you can do this early, it can just put an end to it with some horses. It’s like opening a door for the horse that they didn’t see before, and once it’s open, they just keep walking through it, carrot or no carrot.

Unless it’s pain related.

[Jealoushe]

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. I rode on Friday and he was a really good boy. He did not really balk at all. This was our third ride at my new farm and his third time ever being ridden outside. I made a video to show why I do not think he is in pain, but I would love to hear or be directed to anything you can see indicating otherwise.
He is still very green and steering was hit and miss without those arena walls to help. It seems he has already started to get over this not moving thing. Perhaps COTH just gave us the nudge we needed to persevere.

Here is the link ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etoW23nn7SM

I edited a bit since I used a tripod and a lot of it was a little far away. There are a few older videos of William on my channel too.

[Kaluna]

I’m with the people who say your horse is NQR. You should get another opinion or get a good workup at a vet hospital.

I’ve seen horses with degrees of kissing spines, degenerative spine issues, or oddly-healed foal spine injuries who do just fine at liberty but NOT with the pressure of a person in a saddle. Or even doing lower level work by cheating. I have a good friend who got a training/first level champ who got increasingly agitaged doing first and second level work. Mare had a complete 'tude undersaddle but is an angel on the ground. Nothing showed up on the pre-purchase, my friend thought it was all bad training (mare did have lots of trainers by the time she was 5). By accident, former owner sent ALL the previous medical history and oh look, there was the bone scan showing a spinal injury. Mare is now a broody, lightly ridden. Same owner had a mare who was shown under saddle and was fine until flying changes. None of her very expensive vets could find the problem, said it was behavior. SHe tracked down the vet from the former owner in Germany and Oh look, there were the x-rays from when the foal tried to jump a fence, fell, had a hairline fracture in spine at withers that healed poorly. WHen the US vets knew where to look, they were able to image it. Point is, I think most behavioral probems stem from pain. Some will push through it by sinking their backs, raising the head, etc. Doesn’t mean they’re happy being ridden, they’re just tolerating it. You HAVE to at least consider this option. He might be a good guy who tries despite the pain.

Welcome to horse ownership. :yes: and

[Kaluna]

Welllllll, your horse looks uncomfortable in the trot to the left under saddle. He’s short in the stride, his back and neck are stiff. He uses his head and neck to make his transitions, even on the longe, and not his back, and he doesn’t seem to want to stay in the canter. Your reins are awfully short, too. You might want to make them longer so he can learn to strech forward and use his back, loosen up and swing. Maybe it’s as simple as that, but he doesn’t have much looseness on the longe. This isn’t to depress you as much as it is to encourage you to find the issue now or ride him in a way to train in relaxation and looseness. There may be easy things to do to make him more comfy and fluid. Is your footing good?

[EqTrainer]

I am sorry but I didnt get past the longeing.

Training is a progressive system that teaches the horse how to understand the aids. If you longe a horse without the proper tools, you are not teaching them what the aids mean (cluck/tap/smack).

Please get a longe whip and have someone teach you how to longe properly. Then have them teach you how to bridge your aids in hand and then on the ground. Essentially, go back and restart your horse. He probably really doesnt understand what he is supposed to do, if this is how things have been going.

I know it sounds harsh but I sincerely and kindly mean it, it will be good for both of you. When you say you have never ridden him with a dressage whip, combined with the longeing on the video, it tells me that your horse deserves to be restarted properly. Please do not get on him and just smack him, that is really not appropriate and you would deserve whatever he gave you for it because he would not understand and all it would do is scare him.

[SisterToSoreFoot]

He looks tense in the vid, and the lunging doesn’t seem to be relaxing him as it should. Have you tried Vienna reins? This is a horse that needs to relax and stretch down and out. Letting him circle around with a tense neck is just reinforcing a bad way of going.

In the riding portion, you look a little too passive. Push him forward, do serpentines, change directions often and really work him. Walk trot transitions and trans within the gait. Right now, you’re riding defensively (“hope he doesn’t get mad! hope he doesn’t buck”) and just going around without asking him for much. You should to able to ask for all kinds of stretch in his neck, too, and right now that aspect looks static.

I don’t like how you need to move the mounting block at the start. The horse should stay in one spot. Chasing him with the block is starting the whole session with him being the boss.

Overall, you seem to be a competent rider who simply needs to be more assertive and perhaps refine your groundwork (lunging and mounting) as a next step.

Good luck!

ETA: I absolutely agree with EqT that you must use a whip. This horse is consistently sucking back in the work, and needs an aid that can help him understand forward. Plus, it shows you are a little afraid of the horse if you’re hesitating to use it. You need to get over any fear of / babying of this horse to move forward with the training at all. Find the help/resources you need to make this happen so you can both move forward with confidence.