My horses isn't exactly bouncing back from his 11 day trail ride . . .

[Foxglove]

or maybe I expect too much too soon? WD-4D is a 17 year old QH who just carried me 250 miles in 11 days. I’d spent four months conditioning him, carefully monitored his heart rate, weight, and overall fitness. He was vet-checked every month and found each time to be in excellent condition. We completed the ride (non-competitive, mostly trotted with some canter and some walking --averaging about 5 miles/hr over admittedly rugged terrain --going about 25 miles every day for 11 days. My weight including all equipment was 15% of his 1250 lbs. He seemed to finish the ride in good health (he was highlined every night, but I know he lay down to sleep because I saw him --we checked horses every two hours all night long.)

He completed the ride on 9/28. He has done nothing but hang out in his 20 acre pasture with his two buddies (lush grass pasture) and eat twice a day his usual concentrates since then.

But when I rode him today for a couple of hours at a walk/trot, he seemed unusually quiet --generally he has a bit of attitude --but today he was extremely submissive. He did everything I asked, willingly, but without passion --if that makes any sense.

He is growing his winter coat and it was warmish today.

Am I expecting too much too soon? Give him more time off? I thought I might add a feeding --he usually eats 6 AM and 6 PM, I could easily add a 12 noon feeding . . .he eats ADM Prime Glow (1 pound) and ADM Power Glow (1 pound).

He’s a great horse, I worry to see him so quiet --but he’s got good gum color, he’s alert, he responds to stimuli correctly (take him out of the pasture and he puts up his ears and whinnies at his buddies just like always). But under saddle he’s a bit overly submissive --no pulling on the bit, no desire to trot unless asked, quietly goes into a canter instead of two or three rushed steps at the start –

Thoughts? Ideas?

Foxglove

[rizzodm]

He probably is conserving his energy in anticipation of having to go that far again.

[UrbanHennery]

Perhaps he’s more broke now than he was when you started? I might add some extra protein (rice bran pellets or some such) in case he depleted those reserves.

[hank]

[QUOTE=UrbanHennery;8354386]
Perhaps he’s more broke now than he was when you started? [/QUOTE]

This.
I used to take horses on that ride so they would lose the “attitude”. Can’t think of any failures.

[irish_horse]

He could be conserving as others said, but I will say that is almost the exact description of my horse after our first few endurance competitions, and he had ulcers. He wasn’t off his feed, looked good, but wasn’t himself. Didn’t even want to keep up with others on a trail ride, and he’s usually a pulling jerk!

It could be the stress of competition, different situations, traveling, etc., made him worry more than you realize. My horse was willing (and a bit crazy at the start) at the rides, but settled down, traveled well, ate and drank. Lives in pasture with free-feed hay, not the typical stressful situation you’d expect.

Just another idea, I hope your horse just needs a break, or something more interesting? Maybe take him somewhere/with someone that would usually make him a bit excited and see how he behaves? Good luck!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Not sure if it helps but with event horses after a big effort (long 3 day event at a high level). Most get 2-4 weeks off completely in the field (some a bit longer), then when brought back, we typically just do easy walking trail rides (starting with 20-30 minutes and slowly building back up for 45min to 1 hour). Just walking.

That seems to help loosen things up and ease them back into things. They let you know when they are ready to work again.

The ones who only get 2 weeks off are the idiot ones (one of mine) who hurt themselves in the field if they do not have a job.

[prudence]

All the above may be factors. My horse is also growing his winter coat and in the warm fall weather he is alot slower. A trace clip is in his future!

[Foxglove]

Found out why my horse was feeling kind of off --Farrier was out today and showed me how the 250 miles had worn his shoes into angles that were probably causing him discomfort. WD-4D never wore shoes until this ride because he has tough hooves that grow really fast. Even when I was conditioning him, I didn’t shoe him because he didn’t need them. The worn out shoes were making him (trying to quote shoer but might not have heard correctly) “pronate out” as shoes were worn off more on the outside (really thin, like dime width) than on the inside --thicker like a new shoe. That made W’s whole leg uncomfortable --like trying to stand on a shoe with the heel missing, I guess. Anyway, shoes are off now, hoof is back to its normal position (he’d grown an inch of hoof in six weeks) and shoer recommends two more weeks off – I can do that.

Foxglove

[Guilherme]

OK, I can understand what he’s saying.

But if the shoe is wearing off because of the way the horse is moving would not hoof wear off much faster? Steel is a lot more durable than horn!

If the shoe were causing a change in way of going then the shoer erred in the application. Ideally, the trim is done to anatomical correctness and then a protection (shoe, boot, etc.) might be added to protect the trim based on the horse’s job.

The Guinness record for endurance was (and may still be) three Brazilians who rode six Marchadors around the circumference of Brazil, almost 14,000 miles, in two years and two months. They averaged 16 miles/day. They were shod and reshod every two-three weeks.

I guess this is a “maybe so and maybe not” situation.

G.

[Foxglove]

According to the shoer W, my horse, naturally wears away his hooves to what’s level for him, and my shoer just trims accordingly keeping the natural angles how the horse has worn them. Since W was wearing shoes, his hooves couldn’t wear off in their usual way, and (I’m speculating here) shoes being harder didn’t wear in the same manner. W had grown an inch of hoof in six weeks. I do think that had I had him reshod at 3 weeks, we might have prevented the problem, but since he’d never had shoes on before, it wasn’t anticipated by me and possibly not preventable by the shoer, short of driving to the campground and resetting him at 3 weeks. We’ll never do that kind of ride again --and W will probably never wear shoes again. He seems much more “dance-y/Prance-y” this AM than yesterday.

I was told by more than one person that I should have dismounted and removed my saddle for an hour each day halfway through the ride. I did not do this. It would have been better for W if I had done so, but at the time, with only 3-4 hours ridden, he seemed fresh and eager to go. Hindsight is always 20-20.

Foxglove

[nhhaflngr]

Foxglove -
I commend you in your care and attention to “W”. He took good care of you and you are doing the same for him. Kudos to you both. I hope he now is comfortable and you can feel more at ease.

[Foxglove]

Thanks, nhhaflingr! Many people have “rescue horses” --I’m a “rescued rider” --W found me and reminded me of how much fun riding can be on a horse whose only issue is how can he get to his supper dish sooner. He’s a peach!

Foxglove

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Foxglove;8360802]
According to the shoer W, my horse, naturally wears away his hooves to what’s level for him, and my shoer just trims accordingly keeping the natural angles how the horse has worn them. Since W was wearing shoes, his hooves couldn’t wear off in their usual way, and (I’m speculating here) shoes being harder didn’t wear in the same manner. W had grown an inch of hoof in six weeks. I do think that had I had him reshod at 3 weeks, we might have prevented the problem, but since he’d never had shoes on before, it wasn’t anticipated by me and possibly not preventable by the shoer, short of driving to the campground and resetting him at 3 weeks. We’ll never do that kind of ride again --and W will probably never wear shoes again. He seems much more “dance-y/Prance-y” this AM than yesterday.

I was told by more than one person that I should have dismounted and removed my saddle for an hour each day halfway through the ride. I did not do this. It would have been better for W if I had done so, but at the time, with only 3-4 hours ridden, he seemed fresh and eager to go. Hindsight is always 20-20.

Foxglove[/QUOTE]

Maybe.

Or follow Army practice (U.S. and British) and dismount every hour after 40 min. of riding, walk for 10, rest for 10, then dismount and do it again. This saves the horse’s back and your knees!

G.

[Foxglove]

Guilherme, I do wish I’d done that, or been able to do that. At 60+ years old, with two artificial knees and an artificial hip and shoulder, the dismount would have been possible, but I’m not sure I could have done the walk for 10 min every hour. The second concern at the time was the imperative to get to camp before dark. This is an unguided ride. Riders follow a marked trail. If one isn’t back by 7 PM (all riders must check in at that time), a search party is sent out. W was doing 5 miles an hour --by walking him/resting him 20 of each hour, I would have added considerable time (3 hours) to my day and risked coming in late or (shiver) riding in the dark and missing a trial marker. W and I left at first light and rode 5-6 hours each day. In hindsight, I think that’s too much to ask a horse. It’s too long and too far each day. How do others do it? Well, many cheat. There are maps that show one short cuts (roads) that get a rider to camp in 1/2 to 1/3 the time and distance. I wanted to ride the shore to shore trail. I thought I did everything right --conditioned my horse, had my saddle fit checked, had horse vet checked every month during conditioning, had him properly shod and took the best care I knew how of him during the ride --but in hindsight, it wasn’t enough. My boy was exhausted after the ride (and so was I). I’m sorry I did that to him. I have no justification for making a good horse do that kind of ride, except that I didn’t know any better. My vet and shoer and other people who have done the ride said my horse could do it --and I trusted their judgment. He did. I did. We won’t again and personally, I won’t recommend it to anyone else.

Foxglove

[clanter]

might just be sad to be locked in a pasture after being on the road for 250 miles

[Lieselotte]

Don’t beat yourself up for doing this ride! It sounds like you and your horse both did really well. 250 miles over eleven days is not bad at all and shouldn’t hurt a well-conditioned, well-suited horse. And your horse is fine! But he is also 17, so not the youngest, and also a QH and not an Arab, so it is understandable he may need a longer rest period.

Nothing wrong with taking the winter off and just doing short rides for a bit. You will both bounce back with more vigor in the spring. My mare always goes on pasture vacation for three months after our Endurance season is over. She ain’t complaining

[Foxglove]

Thanks clanter and Lieselotte! He’s tough cookie (ND Ranch bred)–never had a problem with him his whole life -except for his attitude which I’m told is typical of his line (Blackburn 4D/Poco Bueno) --known to be tough to train, but once they learn something, they don’t forget it. They,as a group are also known as lazy and stubborn, unless you can figure out how to make the job something they want to do. Many are roping horses, especially good heelers. W loves foxhunting and trail riding, mostly, I think because there’s always food at the end of the hunt/end of the ride. I think that’s why he was so enthusiastic about the long days in the saddle --he knew the second he walked into camp (I always walked the last two hours) he’d be fed.

Oh, and clanter --he’s got his four buddies and 20 acres of lush grass --he might miss going out on the trail --but not sure he misses me!

Foxglove

[clanter]

horse are more complex than most think

My daughter’s all around do anything for her horse when she first got him as a three year old he had already been owned by five people… he had little trust in any one.

I just noticed he wasn’t at ease in paddock so knowing his history I just loaded him up and drove him around while I was running earns … always to bring him back to put him back in the same paddock. We did this for about three weeks before he understood if he got in the trailer he was going to come back here… always

After that nothing phased him

[Foxglove]

Clanter --you are truly intuitive! W may be like an onion and have more layers than I think --if nothing else, horses depend on routine and are sometimes uncomfortable when routine changes --be an hour late with breakfast here and the horses are lined up pawing and neighing. It’s possible after 11 days on the trail, that became W’s “new normal” and the “back in the pasture” routine was upsetting to him. And maybe he missed the daily bath and massage, too. He’s never been an “in your pocket” type of horse. He does his job with minimal effort to get it done, and then loafs. As a foxhunter --he’s splendid because of that --every jump is taken just high enough to clear it, he stops and stands (and falls asleep) as soon as possible after every chase, figures out the “shortest route” to keep pace with the hounds, and generally thinks for himself allowing me the freedom to enjoy the hunt and work on my riding skills which are generally geared to not interfering with him in any way. He has a couple of (amusing to me) quirks --there are a couple of wide stone walls on our hunt country --because W is extremely agile he will jump up ON them pause, balancing long enough for the other horses to admire his cleverness, then jump down. His other quirk is an absolute abhorrence for anything on his legs --boots, bell boots, galloping boots, shipping boots --he will tear at them with his teeth until they are off his legs. Might be he was poorly hobble trained at some point in his life. I know he ran loose in ND until he was 2, sold to a family for their child (didn’t work out --he’s not fond of kids), bought by another hunt member and hunted for two years, and came to me at 6 when the other hunt member tried to make him do dressage and he refused. It took us 2 years to figure each other out --we’ve been a pretty good team for the past 11 years. Hope it lasts 11 more.

Foxglove

[clanter]

–be an hour late with breakfast here and the horses are lined up pawing and neighing.

we are near a light rail passenger depot… its about 3/4 mile away… the commuter trains are EVERY half hour starting at 4:30 AM (engine blows horn when coming into station) … by the third one the guys are ready to tear the barn down