My kid is a jerk....

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671378]
Thanks for chiming in everyone! Yes, she MUST ride in a properly fitted helmet all the time. I used to work for Charles Owen and I consider myself a helmet nazi. That being said, we haven’t always been required to wear helmets working around the horses. I do think it’s a good idea and have told her to do so.

I’m not always present when she’s at the barn. I have 2 other kids and a full time job so one of the other moms drop her off once a week, then I drop her off once a week and on the weekends I’m running around doing errands. One thing I could do is ride the pony myself and she could do barn chores while I ride, LOL!!! That’ll REALLY piss her off!

She normally is a very respectful kid - don’t get me wrong. It’s just the instructors that she’s been snippy with. I don’t hear this feedback from anyone else and commonly get feedback that she is a sweet and polite young lady. But the fact that she’s disrespectful to the instructors just really irks me.[/QUOTE]

I agree that you can take away riding without taking away responsibility - just cause she doesn’t get the fun part of horses doesn’t mean her responsibility to them ends. Give the instructors permission to put her mouth to work if she wants to run it; have her dump and scrub all the buckets in the aisle for no reason if it means she learns that her rudeness won’t get her anywhere.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I would also make her BABY sit your other children while YOU ride or work the pony until her attitude is improved.

[snowrider]

You need to stop leaving your kid at the barn for the instructors to deal with as long as she is this rude. You or her father need to be out there for a while monitoring her behavior and when she mouthrs off correct her immediately. In front of everyone. If she continues to mouth off, take her home.

The bigger picture is that she’s pretty entitled. I think she need some perspective. I would a) take away riding for a week and have you another kid ride the pony. B) sit down with your husband and explain that horses are expensive and she better be thankful for what she has- have her do x hours of work helping the family and volunteer x number of hours per month or year to keep the horse and be able to show. Hold the line on this.

I get the impression from your posts that you don’t want the hassle that comes all along with confrontation with your kid. I suggest you consider how much more hassle it’s going to be when she’s 15 or 17 instead of 12 and still has this sense of entitlement.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8671363]

Don’t let your desire that she keep riding keep you from imposing an appropriate punishment.[/QUOTE]

^This. Guilty of that a few times myself. Also, while the pony may “need” to be ridden, a week or two is really a fairly minor break in his training.

With respect to changing instructors/trainers, you may want to tell your daughter that you may be open to the possibility of doing that after her attitude towards her current instructors improves. Don’t know the extent of your commitments to the current trainer (through end of season, milestone event, summer camp), but you could tell daughter that you are willing to reassess at some point in the not-too-distant future when it might make sense to make a change.

[Youbetcha]

[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671337]
Just to add…my parents took away barn time from me when I was a teenager and it backfired big time. I ended up getting in to boys and stopped riding for a bit.

Also, what do I do with said pony? Let him have vacation for 2 weeks?[/QUOTE]

She’s 12…if you’re afraid that she’ll get into boys at this age, then you’ve got much bigger problems. Best to address with appropriate punishment at this age then wait until she’s 15 or 16 when you really will have a problem with boys.

[INoMrEd]

In addition to being a good child, treating every other person/animal on the planet with respect and kindness, I also had to maintain an excellent GPA in school (be on the honor roll consistently). If I ever gave my Mom or Dad or any other adult any lip, or if I didn’t study enough to be on the honor roll my riding privileges were instantly shelved.

IMO your daughter needs to earn her riding privileges and from what you have said she is not.

[joharavhf]

Kid has DEFINITELY not ever had to earn riding privileges. She’s always been allowed to ride. I have baggage when it comes to this from the way my parents were with me as a kid - clearly! LOL.

Okay guys, I’m going to ground said kid and ride the horse myself

[Foxglove6]

I agree with others that the punishment needs to be appropriate to the bad behavior. Removing riding time sounds pretty good as long as she also views it as a punishment. Have her longe the pony or hand walk him on trails to keep his fitness up.

It sounds like she thinks she knows better than her instructors and is being disrespectful because she doesn’t agree with them. She needs to learn how to ask questions and bring up those concerns in a respectful way. Do the instructors give her time to ask questions after the lesson? Do they explain why they are performing a certain exercise? Ask her what specific things she feels that they don’t achieve for her. I’m sure there’s a good reason that the instructors are teaching the way that they do. Maybe she just needs to learn how to respectfully be part of that conversation.

[joharavhf]

[QUOTE=Foxglove6;8671431]
It sounds like she thinks she knows better than her instructors and is being disrespectful because she doesn’t agree with them. She needs to learn how to ask questions and bring up those concerns in a respectful way. Do the instructors give her time to ask questions after the lesson? Do they explain why they are performing a certain exercise? Ask her what specific things she feels that they don’t achieve for her. I’m sure there’s a good reason that the instructors are teaching the way that they do. Maybe she just needs to learn how to respectfully be part of that conversation.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a big part of the disrespect. She is definitely a child that asks why a million times and wants to learn everything. There is one instructor that is INCREDIBLE and she LOVES her. She would NEVER get sassy with this instructor. The other instructors (including owner/main instructor) have more experience but are more “reserved” in their observations. I’ve watched all of them teach. I agree with the kid in what I like when I’m taught, too. I think I probably should’ve moved her on earlier. But then she would’ve never learned to respect even when you don’t agree/understand.

[trubandloki]

Then this is the time that you teach your daughter that amazing life lesson that you can learn something from everyone, even those who are not exactly what you want in an instructor.

I think a good talk would be to explain that you are disappointed in how she is acting and that as soon as she shows she can respect all her riding instructors (and all the other adults in her world) you and her can talk about changing instructors, including making a list of why this is a good idea, what this will do in the way of changes (cost more, different friends, not as close to home, etc). Look at the decision like an adult and make the decision that way.

[GrayMare]

I’m actually with the OP on this one. If your kid was on the soccer team and was misbehaving, would you not let them go to practice and games? No, because they have a commitment to the team. Riding is the same, it is a commitment. A horse cannot just be set aside for two weeks. That is bad horsemanship. It’s important to teach your kids to honor their commitments. Riding may be a fun commitment in many ways, but it is also mixed with exercise, responsibility, and work which are all GOOD things for a temperamental kid.

So, I would choose another way to work on your kid’s behavior. Assuming you have already read your kid the riot act regarding having decent manners, I think assigning some extra work every time your daughter behaves inappropriately is a much better punishment.

Also, I think there is a teachable moment in this. Your daughter is impatient and wants to progress with her riding–that’s not a bad thing. But she’s going about it the wrong way. Now is the time for her to stop and think about what will really help her get ahead. Will being rude to instructors help her get ahead? No. Will it give her a bad reputation and decrease her chances of being offered opportunities or assistance or rides on good horses in the future? Absolutely. She doesn’t need you telling her that she’s not going to Rolex anytime soon because a lack of humility and inability to respect her teachers pretty much rules it out right there.

I also believe strongly in the power of positive reinforcement. Your daughter’s ambition is not a crime, but she does need to learn to channel it more appropriately. If she can pull herself together and show some respect for the rules and for her instructors perhaps the two of you can come up with some kind of reward that will help satisfy that ambition–perhaps a clinic or a trip to a competition that she would really like to do.

The last thing I would say is that if it isn’t a fit, it isn’t a fit. Be sure you are at all the lessons to watch and really see what is going on. My kids are slightly younger, but they still often have a good sense of whether or not a particular instructor is effective for them.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=GrayMare;8671455]
IIf your kid was on the soccer team and was misbehaving, would you not let them go to practice and games? [/QUOTE]

I would make them go to practice but not allow games. I highly doubt any coach (who was getting sassed in a comparative example) would disagree. It would be a great lesson in how being a team player involves more than just showing up and playing, it includes being a good person over all. And yes, you are letting your team down but that is because of your own actions.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671428]
Kid has DEFINITELY not ever had to earn riding privileges. She’s always been allowed to ride. I have baggage when it comes to this from the way my parents were with me as a kid - clearly! LOL.

Okay guys, I’m going to ground said kid and ride the horse myself :p[/QUOTE]

Good plan. I totally get also finding an instructor whose styles mesh with her own…but you still show respect. And at her age and experience level…she actually doesn’t really know enough to know what she doesn’t know.

Pony is a commitment and a responsibility…but so is showing respect. And since you can ride the pony…time for her to be a groom to you. Do some extra chores…and earn the right to ride if she wants. When she is showing respect again…you can discuss trying a different trainer that meshes more with her learning style…but learning how to learn from everyone is a really good skill. I cannot EVER remember riding with any trainer at her age and not being thrilled to be in a lesson…and thrilled to ride…and learned something EVERYtime. But then I was a kid who had to earn my lessons and riding time from the time I was 10 on…and knew that the horses might not be an options (divorced, lack of money etc). So I appreciated it far more than I think perhaps a child who has always been allowed to ride.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8671465]
I would make them go to practice but not allow games. I highly doubt any coach (who was getting sassed in a comparative example) would disagree. It would be a great lesson in how being a team player involves more than just showing up and playing, it includes being a good person over all. And yes, you are letting your team down but that is because of your own actions.[/QUOTE]

Yup…I was benched from the game…even though I was one of the top players. Letting your team down…now that sobers up most kids fast. We also had to run lines and extra work…you always showed respect. Worst thing ever was when my coach was also my 9th grade biology teacher…ugh, if you were not prepared for class or a test…yeah, you felt it not only in the grade, but at practice!

On a side point…if you were injured…you still went to practice and games as support for your team mates. Big pet peeve of mine are the kids who don’t come the barn when either they or their horse is hurt. Its like if they can’t ride they don’t come learn. As a kid…I was there and watching lessons even if I couldn’t ride (other than when actually sick).

[snowrider]

[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671439]
I think this is a big part of the disrespect. She is definitely a child that asks why a million times and wants to learn everything. There is one instructor that is INCREDIBLE and she LOVES her. She would NEVER get sassy with this instructor. The other instructors (including owner/main instructor) have more experience but are more “reserved” in their observations. I’ve watched all of them teach. I agree with the kid in what I like when I’m taught, too. I think I probably should’ve moved her on earlier. But then she would’ve never learned to respect even when you don’t agree/understand.[/QUOTE]

It also sounds like she only wants to deal with people who pay her a lot of attention and treat her like she’s special. That’s normal in a child but we all have to get over it as we age.

[Grasshopper]

I agree with a lot of the other comments. She does need to learn how to communicate respectfully, even (especially) if she’s disagreeing or frustrated with something. Vital life skill–so many people fight about the way they’re fighting, not really about the underlying substantive issue.

My inclination would be to have a serious talk with her, and “hear” her frustrations while giving her some strategies for bringing them up with the instructors in a respectful, productive manner. Then clear consequences for disrespect. And, finally, if you think her frustrations/ lack of fit complaints are valid, discuss with her what the realistic options are. We all have to work with less than perfect options based on real life constraints, but maybe there is a better, doable option.

In terms of the consequences, you and your husband know her best. Being grounded from riding would have been a big motivator for me when I was 12; for my own daughter, who is not very motivated (and younger than yours), not so much.

If she is otherwise respectful, that indicates to me that she has some specific frustrations with the situation/people and doesn’t know how to express and deal with them appropriately. Just punishment, without making it a real learning experience, may backfire as she may shut down in future, nurture resentment, etc. I think at this age, setting up the consequences ahead of time so that (even without a developed pre frontal cortex ) she understands what choices she made to lead to punishment, and how to avoid it in the future, really helps it be a learning opportunity.

Sympathetic but firm with the boundaries–just like with horses! :lol:

Edited to add: some of my input is informed by my own interactions with a couple of schoolteachers when I was a kid, mostly in high school. My parents listened to my concerns and discussed productive ways to deal with them. Just feeling “heard” helped keep me from escalating to active disrespect. I did not really put forth extra effort for those teachers, but I did do what they required and kept my interactions respectful…and may even have learned a few things…

[mvp]

[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671353]
Trubandloki,

My parents took my horse away when I was a kid - caused me to go find enjoyment elsewhere as in boys. Eventually I got back into it but I generally don’t think taking riding away is a good thing. It also causes issues with the horse (IMO). He needs to work which means I’m going to have to find someone ride him - which means I have to shell out $$$. Also, I’m trying to instill in her that horses are a “sometimes” thing. So this goes against it.[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing the point.

The point is to show the kid that you mean business and that the negative consequences for her will be unpleasant… and you’ll do what you have to do in order to find something that compels better behavior. You don’t look for ways in which your 12-year-old daughter will make your life harder if you cross her.

[enjoytheride]

Giving the horse a vacation for two weeks is not bad horsemanship. That’s ridiculous. The horse isn’t going to forget anything or lose fitness. Its normal and probably good horsemanship to give the horse the occasional break. Especially in the case of bratty kids or busy adults.

[Lord_Helpus]

The pony can’t survive without being ridden for 2 weeks?!?!!?

It sounds like you really do not agree with taking away privileges, so why not have her do something else to drive the point home ---- like having her apologize, face to face to the BO and trainer ---- she has to write the apology before hand and you get to approve it. She needs to be sincere, to look the person in the eyes, to explain why she was rude and to admit she was wrong. And to tell the BO and trainer that they have the right to take away privileges if she is rude again.

[NMK]

Empower her instructors to take her off the pony for inappropriate behavior.