OP, is she snippy with her instructors at school as well, or just at the barn?
God knew my limitations and just gave me sons 
Good luck, OP!
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8671465]
I would make them go to practice but not allow games. I highly doubt any coach (who was getting sassed in a comparative example) would disagree. It would be a great lesson in how being a team player involves more than just showing up and playing, it includes being a good person over all. And yes, you are letting your team down but that is because of your own actions.[/QUOTE]
I said something disrespectful in a lesson ONCE when I was 12 or 13-- not even to my trainer, but to my mom in front of my trainer. My trainer said very firmly that we were done for the day, goodbye. It made a huge impression on me-- more than twenty years later I still remember what a jackass I felt like.
OP, I give you tons of credit for admitting that your daughter is not behaving appropriately and wanting to fix it.
I would pull her riding privileges and she would have to earn them back. If she does not want to earn them back, then they were not a priority to her in the first place.
Another angle (and I may get lambasted for this, but it has served me well and I feel strongly about it )
Make sure YOU are setting the bar that you want her to reach. I’m always amazed (and saddened) when coworkers or friends complain about their kids in such disrespectful tones. If you aren’t setting the example of what respectful communication is, then you certainly can’t expect her to demonstrate it.
Don’t get me wrong, her behavior is unacceptable and shouldn’t be tolerated. I’ve raised 3 daughters who are now 19, 19, and 22, and they are the most pleasant, respectful and humorous girls you could ever meet. I remember the bratty years and how hard it is, but when I hear you say things like “jerk” and “pissy” it makes me think that the standard has not been set at home.
I won’t add to the suggestions for punishment because you have lots of great ones already, and I certainly don’t mean to sound patronizing to you. Just offering another perspective.
My sister has young ones and will frequently call with the "what did you do when . . . " questions. I always tell her that the reward for good parenting comes in 5 years, not 5 minutes.
Best of luck, they are trying times for sure!
I’m pretty much a softie - does she have a fun peer group who can be role models?
Pony Club has been a lifesaver for lots of kids - fun and challenging.
To get to Rolex she has to be a teachable student, put in more work than she ever imagined and act responsibly since she has a valuable animal under her control.
An instructor who can garner her respect - maybe a man? You get more bees with honey than you do with vinegar, etc. Rewards for success after a challenge?
[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671353]
Trubandloki,
My parents took my horse away when I was a kid - caused me to go find enjoyment elsewhere as in boys. Eventually I got back into it but I generally don’t think taking riding away is a good thing. It also causes issues with the horse (IMO). He needs to work which means I’m going to have to find someone ride him - which means I have to shell out $$$. Also, I’m trying to instill in her that horses are a “sometimes” thing. So this goes against it.[/QUOTE]
She’s twelve!! She shouldn’t be anywhere without your permission. She can’t drive and hopefully doesn’t hang out with people who can drive. I think you can control who she hangs out with. Or maybe I’m just old and it’s way different now?
[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671428]
Kid has DEFINITELY not ever had to earn riding privileges. She’s always been allowed to ride. I have baggage when it comes to this from the way my parents were with me as a kid - clearly! LOL.
Okay guys, I’m going to ground said kid and ride the horse myself :p[/QUOTE]
I LOVE this. Good on you.
[QUOTE=NMK;8671504]
Empower her instructors to take her off the pony for inappropriate behavior.[/QUOTE]
I did that A LONG time ago 
At twelve it should not be the barns responsibility to ‘babysit’ her.
This happens way too often and its not the barn workers job to have to watch your kid. If she can’t behave unsupervised then she can’t be unsupervised… simple.
You guys are great! I’m glad I came here I think there are valid points throughout the thread and I’m going to digest them all before taking action. I think she can do a week without riding - and no, the pony won’t die! He had a year off (due to injury) and was the perfect gentlemen when we started riding again. He’s just FAT so any exercise he can get is good. (Yes, we can walk him. I’m walking a lot too!)
Lots to think about! Thank you all!
[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671439]
I think this is a big part of the disrespect. She is definitely a child that asks why a million times and wants to learn everything. There is one instructor that is INCREDIBLE and she LOVES her. She would NEVER get sassy with this instructor. The other instructors (including owner/main instructor) have more experience but are more “reserved” in their observations. I’ve watched all of them teach. I agree with the kid in what I like when I’m taught, too. I think I probably should’ve moved her on earlier. But then she would’ve never learned to respect even when you don’t agree/understand.[/QUOTE]
Move her on to the better instructor. She is not a good fit with the other one, waste of your money.
I wouldn’t bother with taking away the riding retroactively, too late. Just don’t schedule any more lessons with those and schedule lessons with the one that she won’t sass off too. That one is a better disciplinarian. Also, I would schedule less frequently and tell her why. She gets fewer lessons for a while because of her lack of respect of the other instructor.
I know when any of my lesson kids got sassy I ripped them down off the horse and the lesson was over RIGHT THEN. And it was clear that tone was not to be used with me. Never happened twice. The fact the trainer even tolerates it is shocking to me! I never had to mention it to a parent.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8671715]
Move her on to the better instructor. She is not a good fit with the other one, waste of your money.
I wouldn’t bother with taking away the riding retroactively, too late. Just don’t schedule any more lessons with those and schedule lessons with the one that she won’t sass off too. That one is a better disciplinarian.
I know when any of my lesson kids got sassy I ripped then down off the horse and the lesson was over RIGHT THEN. Never happened twice. The fact the trainer even tolerates it is shocking to me! I never had to mention it to a parent.[/QUOTE]
fordtraktor makes a point, a good instructor won’t take her shit, and will put her in her place…
[QUOTE=NMK;8671504]
Empower her instructors to take her off the pony for inappropriate behavior.[/QUOTE]
A short story: In the mid 80’s I broke my neck and started teaching tweens and teens. At one show, this kid whose parents put no boundaries on to the point that she was outright rude to them, was riding her saint of a pony. At one point on course she came out of a corner, chipped, did nothing so she chipped again coming out of the line. Kid started jerking pony in the mouth and spinning pony in circles.
As soon as she got through the gate, I grabbed her arm and PULLED her off the pony. Told her the show was over for her and she would never be allowed back on her sainted pony until she thought about it and apologized to me and her pony. I made here go sit under a tree and think about it.
Parents were standing by, wringing their hands. I didn’t care if they were mad at me.
Fast forward 25 years. She found me on FB and told me that she had never forgotten that day; it was a real turning point in her life and she wanted to let me know how much of an influence I had had on her.
I was floored and very amazed that one 10 minute come to Jesus meeting had been so influential in her life. Now neither of us will ever forget it.
PS: She has grown up to be a trainer in California and her priority for herself and her students is to always think of the horse and other people first. I am very proud of her.
OP, you are at a crossroads here. This is a teachable moment. You need to confront it in a way that she will remember for the rest of her life. Please do not let her grow up into someone that people do not want to be around.
But it is your daughter, your life.
[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671303]
So, I have an almost 12 year old daughter who has been riding my pony. He’s very green but he’s pretty honest and will teach her well because when she does things wrong he doesn’t “work” for her. Perfect situation. I’ve previously taken him up to BN and done a few schooling events with him but then I had 2 MORE kids and got a job…So I’m not riding anymore.
Kid has been riding with a local eventing facility that offers weekly lessons on her horse or on a school horse, plus they go to schooling events and for the past 5 summers she’s gone to their summer camps. She’s always been a kid that “questions authority,” always challenging the status quo. I actually REALLY like that quality in myself as it makes me a more productive adult. However, more recently it’s causing some issues with her instruction.
She’s been really disrespectful to her instructors that I have PERSONALLY chosen for merits that I appreciate. Recently the barn implemented a “helmet at all times” rule (which I agree with, BTW) and my kid is always snappy about that - especially when she’s been told to put her helmet on by the owner recently. The kid has been requesting to ride with a new instructor as of late. She took a few clinics this winter with other instructors (arranged by the current barn owner as she goes South for the winter). She loved the other instructors as they pushed her - hard.
I have had a discussion with the instructors and feel that their feedback has all been valid for the daughter. The kid doesn’t agree. She thinks the coaching is subpar and won’t help her “get to Rolex.” Like I said earlier, she is starting to be more disrespectful to the instructors and owners.
I need to either nip this in the bud at the current barn or agree to move on. I don’t think it’s fair to have a child treat the barn owner and instructors rudely. And I don’t want to pay for instruction when the kid doesn’t listen. Her dad says I should take away riding for a few weeks. I’m not sure that is the answer. I’d LOVE to hear other feedback on this issue. Again, I think the current barn is doing a good job with her.
Fellow tween parents? Instructors? Help![/QUOTE]
I would definitely give the kid consequences for behaving rudely to the instructors and not wanting to wear a helmet.
Do you need any work done around the house? Particularly unpleasant work? Any time my kid cost me time or aggravation, she had to yard work.
Taking away riding can breed a whole lot of problems. I wouldn’t do that. But I hate housework and so does she, so there you go.
On the issue of her wanting more challenging instruction, I would actually follow her lead. If she got a taste of it in clinics, she could be right on about her current trainers. That is still no excuse to be rude however.
Each time my daughter wanted to move up to a new, more challenging trainer, we did. Several times it was with a lot of trepidation on my part. But each time we moved it was for the best and I can see that we were wasting our time and money in earlier situations.
There is always also the possibility that something unsavory or damaging is going on in the barn that you need to be attuned to unfortunately. Some trainers are just not good leaders, allow all sorts of crazy stuff to go on, some are bullies or are outright abusive. They are not going to display that behavior in front of parents. They save it up for the kids.
So consequences for disrespect, but listen to your kid and follow her inclinations if possible. This is her riding career, not yours.
[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671341]
Oh, and to add. She ALWAYS wears her helmet while riding. The new rule is while handling horses in general.[/QUOTE]
Geez, I don’t blame her for not liking that rule. Honestly, I think that will put off a lot of kids and is not the best idea on the trainer’s part.
[QUOTE=Soaponarope;8671774]
Geez, I don’t blame her for not liking that rule. Honestly, I think that will put off a lot of kids and is not the best idea on the trainer’s part.[/QUOTE]
Did you miss the earlier post about the young teen that was found dead in a field in Aiken this past spring?
I think it’s common sense on the trainer’s part.
As far as the kid; you need to separate the two issues: her rudeness and the training situation. Lots of good advice about how to do that already, but it needs to be clear that her bad attitude not be rewarded with what she believes she deserves, when her behavior indicates otherwise.
It’s easy to be charmed and wowed after a couple of good clinics with someone new and seemingly fancy; it doesn’t mean they are the right match for a full-time boarding/training program. Research carefully where you go next and how you make the move; it’s more than natural for her to have outgrown the current place/trainers, but if there is one valuable lesson I have learned in horses, it’s never burn bridges.
[QUOTE=joharavhf;8671303]
So, I have an almost 12 year old daughter who has been riding my pony. He’s very green but he’s pretty honest and will teach her well because when she does things wrong he doesn’t “work” for her. Perfect situation. I’ve previously taken him up to BN and done a few schooling events with him but then I had 2 MORE kids and got a job…So I’m not riding anymore.
Kid has been riding with a local eventing facility that offers weekly lessons on her horse or on a school horse, plus they go to schooling events and for the past 5 summers she’s gone to their summer camps. She’s always been a kid that “questions authority,” always challenging the status quo. I actually REALLY like that quality in myself as it makes me a more productive adult. However, more recently it’s causing some issues with her instruction.
She’s been really disrespectful to her instructors that I have PERSONALLY chosen for merits that I appreciate. Recently the barn implemented a “helmet at all times” rule (which I agree with, BTW) and my kid is always snappy about that - especially when she’s been told to put her helmet on by the owner recently. The kid has been requesting to ride with a new instructor as of late. She took a few clinics this winter with other instructors (arranged by the current barn owner as she goes South for the winter). She loved the other instructors as they pushed her - hard.
I have had a discussion with the instructors and feel that their feedback has all been valid for the daughter. The kid doesn’t agree. She thinks the coaching is subpar and won’t help her “get to Rolex.” Like I said earlier, she is starting to be more disrespectful to the instructors and owners.
I need to either nip this in the bud at the current barn or agree to move on. I don’t think it’s fair to have a child treat the barn owner and instructors rudely. And I don’t want to pay for instruction when the kid doesn’t listen. Her dad says I should take away riding for a few weeks. I’m not sure that is the answer. I’d LOVE to hear other feedback on this issue. Again, I think the current barn is doing a good job with her.
Fellow tween parents? Instructors? Help![/QUOTE]
I haven’t read all the replies yet, but I needed to add in my input as a mid-twenties woman who used to be a bit of a “brat” but was otherwise a good kid.
Counseling/therapy. I highly recommend it. It doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with either of you, she’s just at a rough age. Start with going separately and then try a joint session. It will give her someone to talk to that won’t judge her and won’t tell anyone her secrets and turmoils. She’ll learn ways to manage strong emotions and work with people. You’ll learn ways to best manage her outbursts without turning her against you.
I was a little brat because I was scared, insecure, and trying to hide it. I was bullied in school and took it out on my mom at home. Mom didn’t give me clear expectations and I felt like all I got was punishments and not rewards when I did good. Not saying that’s what is happening with your daughter, but sometimes behavioral/communication issues are the result of deeper problems with both parties involved. Counseling really helped me and my mom.
Barns can be catty, gossipy, competitive environments even among adults… it’s not really shocking that a 12 year old picked that attitude up IMO!
Sounds like your window for direct punishment has come and gone, so I’d say have a discussion about appropriate behaviour and lay out the consequences for straying from respectful interactions from here on out. It sounds like she’s a sensible kid testing boundaries, not a brat by nature.
FWIW, when I was a bratty 12 year old, loss of horse time was the threat for ANY misbehaviour- whether my transgression was horse related or not. My parents weren’t horsey and didn’t know or care what lack of exercise/attention would do to my horse. I cleaned friends’ tack in exchange for them grooming or riding him in my absence or mucked extra stalls on weekends to make up the BO’s time. My horse, my responsibility to make sure he was cared for- not my parents.
[QUOTE=UnlacedDreams;8671898]
I haven’t read all the replies yet, but I needed to add in my input as a mid-twenties woman who used to be a bit of a “brat” but was otherwise a good kid.
Counseling/therapy. I highly recommend it. It doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with either of you, she’s just at a rough age. Start with going separately and then try a joint session. It will give her someone to talk to that won’t judge her and won’t tell anyone her secrets and turmoils. She’ll learn ways to manage strong emotions and work with people. You’ll learn ways to best manage her outbursts without turning her against you.
I was a little brat because I was scared, insecure, and trying to hide it. I was bullied in school and took it out on my mom at home. Mom didn’t give me clear expectations and I felt like all I got was punishments and not rewards when I did good. Not saying that’s what is happening with your daughter, but sometimes behavioral/communication issues are the result of deeper problems with both parties involved. Counseling really helped me and my mom.[/QUOTE]
While I absolutely agree with your advice (great advice)…there is a HUGE difference between not showing respect to you Mom or mouthing off to parents …and not being respectful to other adults, trainers, coaches, teachers etc. Neither is good…but the former is VERY normal, latter is quite bad manners.
Mother/daughter relationships are tough. And honestly never really change. I can negotiate billion dollar deals…go toe to toe with tough smart people in a high pressure situation and not lose my cool. My mom…can push my buttons and get me screaming mad in seconds…and I’m not alone. That is pretty typical for many people (I do love my mom though ;).
