My trainer says my horse and I are "not a good fit" UPDATE after BT clinic..

[enjoytheride]

Although I never like the ton of JustJump’s posts in this case I think she could be correct (although not exactly nice about it). It sounds like you have an experienced trainer who is trying to tell you that your big, abused, spooky warmblood is too much horse for you and needs a more experienced rider. “Grand Prix” horse could be code for “too much horse for rider.”

Rescuing a horse because you think his last owner was abusive is a very noble thing to do but it doesn’t always leave you with a useful horse.

Sure you could tough it out, he could mellow out with more miles, and you could eventually be good partners. However, it doesn’t sound like he’s going to be tolerant of mistakes and you will have an uphill battle teaching yourself how to ride while fixing the evasions you put on him when you make those mistakes.

In the end it’s up to you and you could always find a different trainer who is more willing to work with the horses the two of you create but try to have an open mind about your trainer. Some of them want to get rid of your horse for a fancier more expensive one. Some of them see a bad match and don’t want to get their clients killed.

[JanM]

Why do I have the suspicion that if you sell your horse, that trainer will suddenly come up with a prospect for you, along with two commissions, one for selling your horse, and one for finding the other?

[red_mares]

I reread the OP and this big, immature horse is 11. Will you give him until he’s 20 to mature? This is not a young horse.

If it were my trainer, I’d let him and see what he could find that might be a better fit. Looking doesn’t equal buying. Let him see if he can find a suitable buyer for the big horse. Just because she saved him from a bad situation, doesn’t mean that the next person (who I’m assuming will pay $$) will mistreat him. We hire trainers for their expertise. Some of them are crooks, some aren’t. Many of the crooks still know an unsafe situation when they see it.

Sometimes us ammy’s don’t know as much as we’d like to think that we do.

[jlphilli]

Never let a trainer manipulate you into selling a horse you are happy with. Nothing more to say other than: Experienced that, left the situation, never been happier! It’s amazing how far you can progress when your trainer supports you AND your horse, and how the opposite can happen as well.

[Thoroughbred1201]

I’ve been mulling this over, and just read JustJump’s post with interest. Although rather nasty, and pretty intolerant of other views, she/he makes some really good points.

The horses I ride now (at age 50) in comparison to my wonderful OTTB I had in my 20s, are very different. I still ride a lot, and want to learn, but my safety is first in my mind now. I would not own my OTTB now - my time/physical ability are very different. Skill wise, he’d be a piece of cake for me now. But safety wise? Not so much. So things will change over time.

I think you need first to look at your goals. Do you want to show? If so, are you physically able for the rigors that will take. I have a friend in her 70s who is fitter riding wise than most 20 year olds. I also know people in their 40s who I’m afraid for each time they ride. So evaluate your physical ability (balance, mentality, etc), against your goal. Show now, or just enjoy the process. Be honest with yourself.

Second, is this horse safe for you. Take the emotional baggage out of it (rescue, etc). My OTTB was not safe for me to show - it was an accident waiting to happen - but at home we could control it. IE, not have to see situations through that I couldn’t deal with. We could set up for success while my trainer trained us both. And it worked. He was also in a full training program. A lot of problems mitigated that way.

Talk to your trainer openly about this. Ask specifically about safety. 'Am I overmounted? Will this horse always have this hole, and is it something you think I can safely deal with? Illicit honest answers, and listen without emotion. I don’t know whether the horse is in full training, or at your own home, but that will make a huge difference in your trainer’s answer. Ask about feed, turnout, etc. All the things that will affect your horse’s attitude.

If the answer is, yes he’s safe enough, it will just take forever, then you have a decision to make.

If the answer is no - then look at whether he’s safe at home, or where the issues are. If the trainer really thinks this situation is a wreck that he can’t keep control of, well, then again, you have a decision to make, and will have to evaluate the risks.

And, as said, you need to really be sure that your trainer has you best interests at heart. After you coolly evaluate all this honestly, you’ll know what to do.

And now, contrary to JustJump’s assertion - I am off to ride, (since I don’t generally ride at 1am when I wrote my first post), then watch the Hunter Derby Finals.

[Fillabeana]

I have to do alot to control him, IE going out an lunging him before my lessons, making sure he is tired, having a tight figure eight when we are jumping

Longing a horse until he’s tired, so you can ride it, is NOT training a horse. It is a self-perpetuating ‘too much horse’ fitness routine that teaches a horse that he doesn’t have to mentally focus on you, ANY TIME that he gets excited.

There are people who can help you, to help your horse learn that he can focus on YOU, as the leader. You can learn to go get the horse, get him paying attention from the time he sees you, get on and get good stuff done without longing.

“I have to do a lot to control him”…not if you are really in control. Ever met those teachers or coaches who could quiet a room full of middle schoolers by clearing their throat?
You can learn this, with good help. There are plenty of charlatans out there who will feed you kool-aid and sell you speshul equipment, and there are sort-of people out there who ‘know the drills’ but don’t ever get to the soul of the matter. But the good news is that there are several of the ‘real deal’ people who will be in Arizona over the winter months, and you should pretty easily be able to get help from any of them.

And then, once your horse is focused and rideable, you can go back to this trainer (if you want) to get instruction over fences.

Let me know if you want any names.

If you’re having a hard time ‘controlling’ your horse, and you want to jump him, you are indeed overfaced. I’m not in my 50s yet, but I know that I won’t bounce anymore. I was in over my head with an OTTB, and I didn’t want a different horse- I wanted MY horse. So I had to get different skills. It was an unsafe, wreck-waiting-to-happen before (and yes, I can ride well, start colts, I evented to Training Level recognized events) and now I can leave TB for a month, go get him and ride out alone safely, and have a fun ride.

[halo]

Sounds like you like your horse a lot better than your trainer. You said you really love your horse, all Im reading from you is positivies about you and your horse. Its just not that easy to find a horse that you just LOVE.

Keep the horse.

[twelvebelles]

Keep the horse, ditch the trainer. You say you enjoy the horse and are progressing, with a few setbacks in various areas - it doesn’t sound like you can’t handle the horse, only that he’s not easy. All of us have set backs and struggle at certain things, even those of us with “uncomplicated” horses. If you love the horse and you’re comfortable continuing to work with him, your trainer should try his best to support you. If he doesn’t and you don’t agree with him, move on. Just because the horse is “grand prix” doesn’t automatically mean you have to be.

[halo]

You know, sometimes the journey is more important than reaching the goal. It sounds like you are really enjoying and are very satisfied with learning with this horse, and helping him from being a basic rescue case to an enjoyable ride. You dont know how far you can take him. Only you know if it is more satisfying learning and bonding with him, or if you want a horse that is show ring ready.

[excowgirlie]

Thank you , EVERYONE, for your posts and opinions…yes, some of it is difficult to hear, and the negative responses are just as useful as the positive ones! This is exactly what I was looking for…I am not trying to say my trainier is right, or wrong…I just wanted opinions, and you all sure have em! To the person who worried my horse is suffering from heat stroke…I ride him at 6 AM almost every morning, we do NOT ride in the heat of the day…and im the first one to admit, I got a screaming deal on him, because he was bone thin and the previous owner, who I believe should have never been sold the horse, had NO experience…it was a timid rider on a nervous horse situation…Had a lovely ride on him this morning, have another lesson on him (with my knowledgeable trainer) tomorrow…Just going to take it a day at a time…THANK YOU SO MUCH, ALL OF YOU, for your posts! PS…my goals are to be able to show in jumpers with out putting myself or my horse in danger…and I will stay at 2’6" until we are 100% confident about moving up…I do love to compete, and he is an absolute joy, on the ground, lol, at horse shows…he just gets a little “up” before the classes, and strong to the jump (which we are working on, and getting so much improved)…and I really do LOVE LOVE LOVE him, and he loves me too!!! I want my trainer to give me a little more time before such a rash decision, and obviously, he knows I in no danger, I trust him enough not to ever put me in that position…the bottom line is this…this is the horse I have NOW, I feel safe on him 99.9999 % of the time,(when the lying down cow gets up suddenly and we are cantering in that corner of the arena, he gets nervous, and yes, so do I…(i know i know…) luckily, not too many cows at the hunter/jumper shows… I want to compete for the next five years or so, successfully, and above allI want to have FUN…and I dont want to be sitting in my 60’s regretting a decision, whatever it may be…

[deacon_s_mom]

I had a TB who was inappropriate for the sport I aspired to. However, despite his faults, I loved him dearly and kept him to the end of his life.

I now have a smallish horse that I purchased because I can’t ride my well-bred Danish WB. (His gaits are too much for my 60 year old back). Despite lovely gaits on the lounge, it turns out my current horse is never going to be a dressage horse (my current sport). I have spent an extraordinary amount of time teaching him his basics. My trainers are very gracious and say he’s great for me because he’s safe but I get discouraged that I will probably never get out of the lower levels with this horse.

As I look back, I wish I had horses more suitable to my sport so I could have at least been competitive. Yes, I enjoy the journey, but, in hindsight, I think I should have done things differently.

However, emotion is very powerful. I appreciate my horse being very cute and very safe with a cheerful personality. However, it is sometimes tough to keep up my eagerness to school when frustration permeates my rides.

If you are enjoying the journey, continue with your current horse. If you have the desire to excel, then perhaps your horse can move on to a rider who can capitalize on his talents and you can find a horse who more closely matches your goals and aspirations.

[ElisLove]

[QUOTE=JustJump;7129559]
Well, it’s Saturday…which might explain why you have gotten a lot of answers here from those who are home on the sidelines patting you on the back and telling you to do what you ‘feel’ you want to and disregard the trainer’s concerns. Meanwhile, those who have met the goals you have been fruitlessly working towards are out walking their courses that they will later on today compete over with their equine <<heart>>partners.[/QUOTE]

That’s weird, I didn’t think the 1.20m jumpers I was doing this week, on the horse I trained to that level myself(with the aid of a trainer for lessons), were imaginary. Strange, they felt so real.

[Horsezee]

If you are honestly on the fence about selling him maybe it’s a good idea to remove the ad you put up last week in the Warmbloods For Sale group on Facebook.

[excowgirlie]

dully noted…

[RugBug]

IMO, it’s so easy to say “find a new trainer,” when there has got to be more to the story. Sure, some trainers are crooked, but some are looking out for their client’s best interest.

You are a small rider on a very big horse…that right there could be enough to say its not a good match. You’ve also said a few other things to make me believe this could be a bad match. However, if you want to continue, it’s up to you to let your trainer know that even if the match is bad, you accept all that comes with it and will not be selling.

Accepting all tha t comes with it may mean you don’t get to show the horse or you never get to move up,etc. it means you do not complain about not moving up or not showing. Etc

I bought a horse that I wasn’t a great match with. I loved him and struggled for years to make him be the horse I wanted. He was a very nice horse, but he needed a different type of rider to be his best…and I needed a different type of horse to be my best. How refreshing it was when strangers started telling me what a good team I was with the replacement horse.

I know someone right now that is in a similar situation. Small rider, big horse and not a good match personality wise. They are getting things done, but at a snail’s pace. It’s not the horse OR the rider’s fault (or the trainer’s, for that matter), it’s the combination. This person rides another horse that is more suited to her and they make progress rapidly.

[Perfect_Pony]

I agree with RugBug. I would just say that at some point you need to decide between the trainer and the horse. I feel for a trainer that has to deal with a client on a bad match that just “loves” him. You see it all the time and it’s hard to watch. Hell, I am in the position now but have the opposite problem, justifying selling a horse that I know in my heart is not a good match for me.

That said, if you enjoy your horse, “good match” or not, then you need to find someone willing to work with you and be positive and helpful to you where you are. There’s no one saying you have to be at a certain place or doing a certain thing with your horse. Hell, I know people perfectly happy owning horses they are scared to ride! But it’s not my life, as long as they enjoy lungeing, who am I to judge?

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=rizzodm;7129184]
Tell your trainer selling is not an option. He will either let the idea go and keep working with you and you will keep getting better or he will pester you about it then you can make the choice to move on to another trainer.[/QUOTE]

Yep. This is what I do anytime I move barns. I’m very up front that my horse and I are a package deal. He can be difficult from a management perspective and he’s had some injuries that cause me to limit the heights he can jump, etc. I’m just very up front that there is zero chance of me selling him, and that backs most people off the topic really quickly. There was one trainer who would consistently make disparaging “neurotic Thoroughbred” comments about him because she was annoyed that I didn’t want to sell him. We left her.

[GWF]

I just have a couple things so Ill make it quick.

-A 17.3h warmblood is a big horse for a 5’4" rider.

-If the horse is in fact a Grand Prix prospect then why not sell him and buy something more suitable?

-If you are showing and riding a horse consistently, IMHO you should not have to lunge him before each ride to tire him out.

-if you don’t trust your trainers opinion you should find a new trainer that you will trust.

[Soaponarope]

[QUOTE=SlamDunk;7129208]
Now I’m not saying this is the case with you. But I’ve been riding a horse for an adult amateur rider ( The horse was bought for the daughter but wasn’t a good match.) with the thought of selling/getting the horse made up enough for the daughter. I do genuinely like the horse, the trainer genuinely likes the horse, we were making good progress when horse was in a very strict program (and when I first started the agreement was not so much that the man would ride) even did the horse in a small hunter derby and he was progressing in the jumpers with the me and going ok for his owner. Now the horse is not a great match for the man, if I’m being honest he fries the horse and it was only with a ton of professional rides the horse could hold it together. I got injured in the summer and couldn’t ride and sat on the horse again recently at a show. The horse has declined, is quite miserable, and still the client can’t see it. He’s barely jumping around 3ft and is convinced they should be doing the 1ms.

The horse is just honestly not a good match, its too sensitive, not quite honest enough and really just unhappy jumping around with such an inconsistant rider. Me and the trainer don’t have an agenda, its not about commissions, and in fact the only reason she hasn’t let him try and fail at the 1ms is because she doesn’t want to do that to the horse. Honestly I’d make less money if he got a new horse since it wouldn’t need 3 pro rides a week and every day of a show. I still think its a bad match and would be delighted to see him with a horse that didn’t barely need any pro rides or none at all!

It’s not always about a trainer wanting more money, commissions, or having a buyer for the horse. Sometimes things truly are not a good match and the trainer is acting in yours and the horse’s best interest. And again I’ve never seen you or you’re horse I’m not saying that the is the case with you at all, having a horse that is more talented then you isn’t a crime as long as you guys are a good match with riding style . Also I totally understand not being able to just go out and buy another nice horse, but luckily or you it sounds like you already have one. So if in fact you do come to the conclusion you need to move on at least he sounds saleable! Good Luck![/QUOTE]

I would say it’s hard to see the forest for the trees sometimes when you are emotionally invested in a horse. The trainer sounds like he has your best interest at heart and perhaps doesn’t want you to get hurt or waste your time. You’ve got to be sure that you aren’t making excuses for the horse and that it is really safe. Of course the trainer will make more money if he’s leading the new horse search and you’re able to show more successfully, etc. However, you’ll also be better able to meet your goals which is what you are paying for and what you want. It sounds as if the horse is sellable and that is wonderful. I think you are lucky to have both the trainer who wants you to excell and the horse that you can move if you need to.

[foursocks]

Well, there is a lot of good advice here, but none of us really know your situation. You could be a bad match for your horse, but not dangerous, so it could work. You could be a bad, dangerous match for your horse, and then it will never work. You could be fine and just need some different training for you and your horse. Or, you could be fine and your evil, bloodsucking trainer is trying to steal your GP prospect out from under you. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle of some or all of this, or goes in an entirely different direction. If you really want to figure it out asking for advice from a bunch of people who have never seen you ride your horse is not going to be the best approach. However, you came here so I’ll add my two cents- which is mainly to get advice from people who do know you and your horse, or at least have seen you ride!!

I understand you are looking for validation of your desire to keep your horse, who you obviously love, and I empathize with that. I had an asshole horse for almost five years until he had to be put down for a tumor, and while he was, in all honesty, a pro ride I became a much better rider because of him. I also figured out that struggling all the time, even with a talent as big as his was, sucks. So, there were good and bad things- he was not a dangerous horse for me because I knew how to ride him, and most of the time I enjoyed him. But he was difficult and frustrating overall because actually channeling his talent for good was a struggle.

This is why I empathize with your situation- but again, no one here knows you or your horse and you either need to trust your trainer (and maybe sit down with him and really get into the details of what he thinks you need, what you want, and how possible it is to get that), or find someone else to give you an unbiased evaluation. Your trainer might not be all that great- there are a lot of people who talk really well but don’t teach all that well, and it can be hard to see that from the inside- but if you are happy with him and want to keep riding in his program you need to trust what he says about you and your horse. So that is another decision to make, and it is an important one- if you decide to keep the horse and stay with this trainer you need to make sure he is willing to work with you.

Perhaps the clinic is a good place to start if you want to go the other route and find someone else to evaluate you. But, you probably need more time with another trainer to get a good evaluation. Good luck, and don’t be afraid to step back and see the situation through an outside perspective, even if it tells you something you don’t want to acknowledge.