My trainer says my horse and I are "not a good fit" UPDATE after BT clinic..

[findeight]

Question for OP…is your horse in full training where he gets pro rides? Or do yo board at the barn, take lessons and to all your own work? Makes a difference in my opinion of trainer.

Also… keep in mind trainer takes you to shows to represent his ability. If you are always seen lunging until horse is tired enough for you to ride and still having issues in the show rings with trainer at the gate for you? Does not speak well of his ability and, possibly, judgement. Try to see both side before deciding whether trainer needs to be condemned, especially if OP is only taking a couple of lessons a week. Limit to the progress that can be made that may not be trainers fault.

I don’t know without further details.

[TSWJB]

No one can make this decision for you. I am sure your horse is difficult and disappointing to both you and your trainer. You can’t blame the trainer for wanting to put you on something more suitable. Frankly its a lot more fun training something that can go to the shows and represent the trainer well. At my barn people lease nice horses and are right in the 3 ft ring and winning. I stay home and struggle to get confident on my horse. However my horse is safe and very fun to jump in lessons. I think he will do well but we move at a snails pace. My trainer doesn’t have a problem training me. But she also has a lot of other very good clients that she can direct her attention to, and I don’t show extreme disappointment when things do not go well. Another client gets angry at her horse and it has been suggested that she sell her horse and get something better. I don’t think the trainer is telling her that to get a commission. Check your attitude to see if you are not making the trainer think you are unhappy. If you love the horse keep trying as long as its not dangerous. But understand you will not be the one posted on them website with big congratulatory notices. The girl I am talking about would get upset seeing these. I told her what do you expect? Congratulations your horse jumped a line without stopping? Take a hard look at what you want. I know I really enjoy my horse even though I struggle to put in a good round at 2.6ft. The reason why? Because my lessons that I take are the most fun I have ever had on horseback!! I lowered my expectations.

[Guin]

I am very interested to see what happens in the Traurig clinic. Report back to us on that. Ask Bernie’s opinion - is he just too much horse for you? If he agrees with your trainer, then you should do some serious thinking about having your trainer find you a more suitable horse.

[excowgirlie]

wow, you all have such great insights and stories and wisdom! I love it. I know my trainer is good at what he does…he doesnt ride to due an injury, and yes, I am at a barn where I take two lessons a week from him, and then do all the homework and “teaching” my horse on my own. I have a mentor who helps me alot, and I trust her and my trainer DO have my best interest at heart. This morning, we had a WONDERFUL lesson. My trainer said “next friday, do everything like you did today!” so I got THAT going for me…hehe…I am diligently getting ready for BT clinic, and we shall see what happens there. I took his listing off FB too! I really appreciate you all…I love being part of a communtity of like minded people who you can “rap” with, and get alot of feedback…try talking to coworkers or your family, and they just kind of smile and nod, and then their eyes kind of gloss over and you know you lost em…lololol…

[excowgirlie]

…

[HealingHeart]

Agree with others, if you love this horse and like his ride, hang in there with him. You 2 will mature together, like wind, it is almost there.

As for trainers, lets us be reminded that they are in a business, I hope he is giving true advise and not looking at what’s in it for him. If he sells your guy and helps you buy, he stands to make a little money

As for the cows, make that a challenge to help you & your horse over come. Graze out by them, walk by them, just give it time…

[fairtheewell]

If your trainer is saying to you that your horse is a “Grand Prix” horse and not suitable for you…I would think “red flag”…trainer smells $$$$$. But that’s just me…

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=excowgirlie;7131006]
its almost like any reservation or insecurities I started out with this week regarding my horse and our shaky partnership DONT out weigh my desire to prove my trainer wrong and let him see that we can do this thing!! (and I have a little secret, today I put some treats in my pocket, and every once in awhile after a nice round when we stopped I reached down and gave him one…boy did he like that!)[/QUOTE]

I read this thread and earlier in it I gave you some simple things to think about; however, I don’t think it’s reasonable for any of us to tell you our thoughts to sell or keep him… if you had video to post that may give much more insight.

It sounds like you are making headway with your relationship. And I do know, relationships can be up and down.

Have a great time at the BT clinic. It sounds like fun.

[theartofthespy]

As a trainer’s daughter, I get to see both sides of this situation fairly often. I would definitely ask for clarification from your trainer. Why are you a bad match? More than likely, he is trying to do the right thing for both you and your horse! If your horse is at a higher level than you, perhaps it is detrimental for you both in your current situation.

I have seen so many examples of this where the horse and rider feed off of each others shortcomings, and progress slowly, having to correct multiple bad habits formed while fixing a pre-existing bad habit. Perhaps it would be beneficial to ask your trainer what he would do if he was in your situation (financially and riding-wise). Ask BT what he thinks. 99% of trainers actually really want their students to succeed, even if they could make money off of doing the wrong thing. That’s why trainers aren’t known for being rich!

In my opinion, I never want to be over faced because it isn’t good for me or the horse. I would rather see that horse being ridden by someone who was not over faced, because I believe that we learn from our horses, but we should ultimately be the ones training our horses, not the other way around. This was so long, and so many people have already put in their 2 cents, but hopefully this will give you a different perspective! Good luck. Trust yourself. Trust your trainer. And trust your horse to tell you what he wants.

[findeight]

A bit late here, been too busy to persue it lately. Any way, glad OP had a good lesson.

Had a couple of thoughts. One is the possibility the behavior may be pain related- and not being visibly lame does not mean nothing hurts. Horse is (at least) 11 years old with sketchy background information. Has any vet work been done? And PPE x rays? Particularly hocks/back end? Saddle fit? Previous neck injury? If it hurts when they jump? They will try to protect themselves by trying anything they can to avoid it. If it hurts to do a flat exercise, they do anything to evade.

The other thing that might be going on is horse was a Jumper of sizeable fences and got hurt/scared/overfaced/abused and quit trying and/or became unmanageable so ended up sold down the road a few times ending up with a novice owner who was way overhorsed and neglected him.

We know trainer said GP horse but I’m not thinking he meant " Let me sell him as a GP horse", rather he referred to a horse previously shown over large jumps that got physically hurt or mentally fried- or both. That’s not an unusual thing to run across either. Maybe a tactful way of pointing out to owner the horse has way to much jump for a 2’6" course and requires a tactful ride like GP riders produce. That makes it extremely difficult for OP to advance doing all her own work on this horse that towers over her-his withers are 7 inches over the top of her head, which is OK of you are MGE, not so much the rest of us vertically challenged ammies.

See what happens at the BT clinic but please keep both pain related behavior and what may have happened to this horse in past years. He may be happier in another job f he des have a lot of “baggage”.

[Calvincrowe]

I see a lot of “by god, I’ll show that trainer!” in these posts by the OP. I am going to give the trainer the benefit of having the OP’s best interests at heart here. Remember, all we have is the OP’s version and words and memories.

Older, physically small rider on a big, big, powerful warmblood with a sketchy past who is hot and has some bad habits, who needs prolonged lunging to be manageable in a lesson at home? This seems to be a recipe for continued frustration and possible injury.

OP–I think you are letting your pride and barn-blindness over your horse color your thinking. Only you can make the choice to keep or sell, but I really don’t think your trainer is trying to rip you off or steal your dreams–he sounds like he’s concerned with your welfare, and maybe your pocketbook in the sense that you are spending $$ on a horse that may never help you achieve any of your goals. I agree with the poster who said a trainer is judged by his clients, especially at shows. This trainer, given the fact that you only take 2 lessons a week and he doesn’t ride, doesn’t sound like he’s trying to upsell you into a more expensive horse and more money for him by him training/riding it.

I hope you make a choice that serves both you and your horse well.

[Dewey]

This has been a really interesting thread, and I hope the OP will follow up with her experiences at the clinic and what she decides to do with this horse.

I realize that we have not seen the OP ride the horse, and we are not hearing from the trainer; that said, I tend to agree with Calvincrowe and the other posters who want to give the trainer the benefit of the doubt and tend to think that the horse sounds like too much for the OP.

I am a very experienced rider with a lot of mileage riding greenies and problem horses, but I am also petite and over 50, and I would not want a horse like the one the OP describes. OP, I am not trying to be mean, just realistic; I also freely admit that I could be totally off here. I encourage you to take the horse to the clinic and let us know the result. We all want the best for you.

[poltroon]

From your description… I feel you are overhorsed.

Rescuing a horse feels good… but it doesn’t create a good match.

You are 5’4" and he is 17.3 … that is a serious mismatch right there. When you are that small, it is very difficult to influence your horse appropriately. On a horse that is 16 hands or even 15 hands, your aids will be twice as effective.

You are having to lunge him - this is hard on his very big body - and it feels to me from what you write that he is spooky and you have basic control issues.

The thing is - another rider might be a happier match for him and another horse might be a happier match for you. Realize that his needs may be better met with another rider.

Denny Emerson has been writing lately about the importance of having a horse that is a good match for you, and I believe in it wholeheartedly. Riding is supposed to be fun.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Ride some other horses. Ask your trainer if you can have some lessons on some other horses in the barn. This is good for your riding, and may give you some insight as to whether you might enjoy a different horse more.

2. Consider putting him on the market. You want him to have a good home, obviously. If the right buyer doesn’t come along, you don’t have to sell. It might take a while.

3. As I get older, I sure appreciate smaller, steadier horses who are well suited for their job. In this economy, there are plenty out there.

People mentioned that this is the second horse the trainer didn’t like, but it sounds like both times OP was focused on rescuing a horse without thinking much about her needs as a rider. When you’re the pro (or the friends on the sidelines), this can be very hard to watch.

[rabicon]

I do believe the op only lunges the horse at shows until it’s tired because he is more up at shows. I don’t think she is saying she lunges him every ride but maybe I’m reading wrong. There are many many people out there that lunge a horse half in the ground at shows. Heck I watched it this weekend. Not saying it’s right just saying some believe it’s acceptable practice. Lunging to warm up and get horses attention on you is much different than letting it run around bucking, screaming and paying no mind to person lunging and letting it wear itself down till it’s to tired to do that anymore.

To op: do the clinic, ask him honestly afterwards if he feels you are over horsed. Get a second opinion and go from there. Good luck.

[RockinHorse]

[QUOTE=rabicon;7132271]
I do believe the op only lunges the horse at shows until it’s tired because he is more up at shows. I don’t think she is saying she lunges him every ride but maybe I’m reading wrong. There are many many people out there that lunge a horse half in the ground at shows. Heck I watched it this weekend. Not saying it’s right just saying some believe it’s acceptable practice. Lunging to warm up and get horses attention on you is much different than letting it run around bucking, screaming and paying no mind to person lunging and letting it wear itself down till it’s to tired to do that anymore.

To op: do the clinic, ask him honestly afterwards if he feels you are over horsed. Get a second opinion and go from there. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

@excowgirlie;7129225

Im sure my trainer doesnt have a hidden agenda as far as why he thinks I should sell this horse…he thinks he is too big for me, and that I have to do alot to control him, IE going out an lunging him before my lessons, making sure he is tired, having a tight figure eight when we are jumping…but on the flat, at home, when im not in training or showing mode, he is a darling…and he is getting better, albeit slowly, and I think I am too…I appreciate the comments, keep them coming…I have a clinic with Bernie Traurig in a month, and I am reserving any major decisions until after that…

Looks like he is lunged more than just at shows

[excowgirlie]

.

[lonewolf]

I disagree with those who are blasting the trainer. I think it is a trainer’s responsibility to try to say something if their student is on a horse that might not be safe or suitable to the rider’s goals.

Objectively, he may be right in this case. Based on the descriptions given here alone (horse is overly strong and spooky, sometimes a stopper, rider struggles with control, etc), I get the feeling the rider may be slightly overmatched.

HOWEVER, the trainer also has to respect the student’s decision in the end even if he disagrees. I would sit him down and tell him that you understand where he is coming from, but that even if you could move faster with another horse you love this one and plan to keep him. And if ever you change your mind about selling, you will let him know.

And at that point the matter should be closed. It is only if he continues to harp on the subject that I would worry about trainer’s intentions. Trainer’s job is to help you reach your goals, and if you CLEARLY state that learning to ride this horse is more important than showing or moving up the ranks, trainer needs to respect that decision.

[CHT]

I am surprised that people are jumping to “dump the trainer” after the trainer mentions ONCE that the horse may not be the right match for the rider. Sounds like the trainer did it in a tactful way. I could see if the trainer was constantly down on the horse, but one tactful comment?

OP, good luck at the clinic!

Have you ever seen a video of you riding this horse? I wonder if this may give you a different perspective on his suitability.

Sounds like you have brought the horse a long ways, so regardless of what you decide to do, that was a great thing to do for the horse’s well being!

[Valentina_32926]

[QUOTE=Chaila;7129177]
Get a new trainer. …[/QUOTE]

Agree with this - if this is a GP horse trainer is saying you’ll never make it to GP? So what??? Unless he is offerring to purchase horse for 100,000 then I would keep it. Things are getting better with horse - BECAUSE of YOU!!! So don’t let this bozo talk you out of keeping a horse that is already MUCH better and getting better by the day!

Hang in there

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=fairtheewell;7131279]
If your trainer is saying to you that your horse is a “Grand Prix” horse and not suitable for you…I would think “red flag”…trainer smells $$$$$. But that’s just me…[/QUOTE]

Heh. Was coming to post the same thing.

May be completely unfair, don’t know the principals. But when I hear something like that when the owner is NOT unhappy and ready to keep going with a horse … what it really means in my ears is “I have a buyer for that horse, and another one I want to sell to you.” Nothing to do with anyone’s best interests but the trainers.

Oh the stories of trainers talking owners into selling … and within a few short months, the horse is in the hands of another ammy. How often everyone just switched horses with little real purpose or change.

In your shoes, if the trainer continued to press, I would cut off the psycho-analyzing and just go to another trainer who doesn’t do this (as much.) But I believe trainers work for those who pay them - many in the horse industry (esp. many trainers) think it is the other way around.