My trainer says my horse and I are "not a good fit" UPDATE after BT clinic..

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Sorry…I haven’t read all the responses…but right off the bat, based on your description…honestly, this horse does NOT sound like a great match for you OP.

You are 5’4". He is 17.3. That ALONE makes it not a great match. I’m 5’9". I have a WB/TB cross gelding who I’ve owned since he was 2. He is 17.1 and too much horse and too big for me. I started him, taught him how to jump, rode him in his first shows. Got him to training level eventing (and jumping more than 3’6" courses) but now do not ride him. Why…because he is too damn big and strong for me.

I have a pro riding him now…and they are aiming for Rio…and have a shot at it. People see him and ask why I’m not riding him. And my answer is that he is NOT my sort of ride. It is NOT that I am not a good enough rider for this horse…but I know we are not the best match. How do I know this…because I have and had horses who ARE a good match for me and know what that feels like. I love this horse though…and will not sell him (although we are syndicating him–he will not ever be for sale).

You have to take emotion OUT of the picture. I have 15 horses…I CAN ride them all. I CAN ride green and I can ride strong. But I KNOW what is a better match for my riding. That is two of my OTTBs. One is 16.1 hands and is like riding a sports car and the other is a bigger 16.2 hand mare and also more of a finesse ride. But both are brave and forward. THAT is my sort of ride. I’ve re-started them both from racing (I like green horses). I do not ride overly strong horse as well (my big horse).

So besides being a match for you physically…they need to be a match for your riding. And just because you CAN ride them doesn’t make them the best match for you as a rider. All I hear is your trainer being honest with you…and this is supported by the fact that you still need to lunge the horse before your lessons, given his size, training and other issues…he really is probably NOT the best match.

What you want to do with that is your choice…you can keep working at it–but it will not change the physcial match issues. You can learn a lot from this horse but if he is a potential GP horse, then now (before he gets much older) is the time to sell. But if you do decide to keep him…then you will need to work hard with your trainer to keep improving. If you do that…just be HONEST with yourself as to the issues. It isn’t all about the horse…or all about the rider…having the right match is important. And while you can learn a ton from EVERY horse…when you have that one (like my two OTTBs) that just suit you in all ways (not because they are push button but because you both are the right match for each other) it is VERY cool and more fun than anything.

[ComingAttraction]

Oh lawd, let us not start trainer bashing! Go have a convo with your trainer and see what he suggests. Maybe he could sell him for you for a nice price which you could then use to buy a lovely horse that will be a great teacher/partner for you. Look, I don’t know why anyone wants to make things harder for themselves. If he is a tough ride for you, you may want to think long and hard about this. Explore your options.

[Tonkafriend]

…and I know the OP doesn’t owe us, but an update would be nice. What did the BNT think?

[excowgirlie]

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[Rose2011]

I’m 5’1" and my horse is 18 hands. He should have been a Grand Prix jumper, but an injury at 4 put an end to that. He’s powerful and scopey, and I would “progress” faster on a smaller, more experienced horse. But I LOVE HIM. I changed my goals and expectations so I can ride him. Keeping him or selling him depends on what you want. Do you want to jump higher and have an expectation of how long that will take? Then find a smaller, easier horse. If you don’t have a defined goal or timeframe, then keep him and enjoy the journey, and find a new trainer.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Rose2011;7153725]
If you don’t have a defined goal or timeframe, then keep him and enjoy the journey, and find a new trainer.[/QUOTE]

Why are people so stuck on telling her to get a new trainer??? Just because a trainer states the obvious…that these two are not a good match doesn’t make mean they can’t teach them. I sure as hell do not pay a trainer to just blow sunshine up my butt. They can tell me what is my weakness…or that a horse is not a good match for me. That doesn’t mean that they are not going to train me well. Most of use DO own a horse and ride a horse who isn’t an ideal match. And one that isn’t a physical match…it will explain why the trainer may work on certain issues.

In the OP’s case, she knows she has to lunge this horse a bit. Perhaps she has to use stronger bit…there are a lot of things we do to compensate. But a trainer pointing out a negative doesn’t equate to getting rid of them IMO.

[BITSA]

[QUOTE=CHT;7133030]
I am surprised that people are jumping to “dump the trainer” after the trainer mentions ONCE that the horse may not be the right match for the rider. Sounds like the trainer did it in a tactful way. I could see if the trainer was constantly down on the horse, but one tactful comment?

OP, good luck at the clinic!

Have you ever seen a video of you riding this horse? I wonder if this may give you a different perspective on his suitability.

Sounds like you have brought the horse a long ways, so regardless of what you decide to do, that was a great thing to do for the horse’s well being![/QUOTE]

i agree, watch yourself riding the horse. I bought a horse my trainer “picked” for me. I liked her but wasnt wild about how she looked standing there. I liked riding her, but only recently saw a video of us t our first show. We look like a good match and I couldnt be happier.

[emgjoker]

If this trainer did NOT tell her that this horse was not a good match for her, just as many people would stand on the rail at shows saying “what a crook…he just takes her money and isn’t honest enough to tell her that horse isn’t a good match.” You pay the guy to help you progress and sometimes uphill battles make you better in the long run, but they’re BATTLES on a daily basis. Not everyone wants to have a difficult go of it every time a cow stands up or the wind blows. If there is a time (when the cow stands up, etc) when you are actually out of control or scared (you said you feel safe 99.999% of the time) then you aren’t fully in control of this horse. He’d be remiss to not bring this up.
People say they want honesty and then punish it by leaving when they get it…there’s no winning. If you’re not willing to sell the horse, simply say “I know he may not be the best fit, but I’ve decided I love him and am willing to deal with the down side of our match…I’m keeping him. I hope you’re willing to work with us together…” and I’ll bet he says of course he is and he just wants to see her succeed, be safe and have fun.

[Bigbutt]

I’m skimmed most of the posts and I’m still a bit confused… why does your trainer not think your a good fit?

1. Is it because your horse has some much more potential (grand prix horse) then you show - because I don’t think your horse has aspirations loftier then yours.
2. Is it because the size difference? If you are 5’4 and he’s 17.3hh then will things be more difficult, yep, compacting him, moving him around and such will be harder but you know that - so as long as you are good with it and aren’t fearful because of the the height then who cares. (Btw I’m 5’2 last horse was a full 18.1 hh clyde and current horse is 17hh - and I’m of an age I don’t bounce any longer. But I prefer the bigger horses, feel more secure)
3. Is it because your horse is too hot, too much of a bully, has your number? Now this would be the only reason where you might want to go hmmmm… is my coach thinking my safety is at risk. Some horses just need that firm, strong manhandling, and perhaps thats the reason.

I would make a point if Bernie T doesn’t come out and say it, I would ask for his opinion of your match at the end of your clinic. He has nothing to lose or gain by voicing his thoughts on it. And if he says anything other then your fine together - then ask him why and what you can do to make that match better if at all possible.

Good luck, but I say at this point don’t get rid of the horse or the trainer till you have some more clarity.

[Pleiad]

[QUOTE=excowgirlie;7129169]
I have had my 17’3 warmblood jumper for almost two years now. When I got him, he was really messed up from his last owner…skinny, skittish, hard mouthed and over faced, not to mention mistrusting. I previously had an ottb who my trainer HATED, and I bought the warmblood because basically I wanted to “save it”, and also, I got a great deal on him.
We have been to about 8 shows, and he tends to be hot, but getting better and better, he is 11, and he is a bit immature, but I blame that on his previous owner, and also being overfaced when he first was introduced to jumping. I will add that he is a “G-Line” oldenberg, and I read they mature later than most…So, anyway, we have been working with my trainer, and digressed a bit the last couple weeks because he is deathly afraid of the two cows in the pasture next door to my barn, and when they are in the corner he acts up abit…BUT, today we had a great lesson, and I think there is hope for us as a partnership. Well, after my lesson today, my trainer told me that my horse is a “grand prix” horse, and im only a fairly good, adult amature rider, and that I should get another horse…He seems to know everything about horses and riders, and he has been around for a long time, but I #1 dont have the luxery of just going out and getting another horse, and #2 love my horse and feel like we are progressing, slowly, but progressing none the less…MY QUESTION that I want to throw out there is WHAT WOULD YOU DO? I just would like some opinions…I am 5’4, and over 50, but I am determined, brave and consistant in my riding. Should I just go with one man’s opinion, stick it out, give up, get a new trainer, what?? The one positive thing that has come out of all this is I am working my ass off to try to prove him wrong, so my riding has really gone to “the next level”, and I really feel I could ride any horse after my challenges with my big oldie…THANKS>>>>>>[/QUOTE]

That’s awesome. Knowing your horse is “better than you” is a great inspiration to learn and rise to the level of your horse. I would keep him (could you afford another Grand Prix level horse, ever?). I would ditch the trainer though. Really.

[Jumper_Always]

Just a side note for those suggesting she change trainers, trainer doesn’t have best interest, etc…I was in the same position many years ago. Moved from a BNT to an ever bigger BNT with my newly purchased (4 months prior) 15.3 Hano mare (out of Voltaire). On the ground she was the sweetest thing…under saddle was another story. When she felt like behaving she was an 8+ daisy cutter mover and nice form o/f. When she didn’t feel like behaving…lets just say she was hot, cranky, disobedient, etc. Completely behavioural as health issues were ruled out. I can ride green, spooky, hot, and could handle her but she was just so much work and so much prep before shows, however I decided to tough it out. With 5+ lessons a week there improvement, albeit slow. Like the o/p I really enjoyed this mare, she was so sweet to work around, and a really nice ride when she was behaving.

Trainer told me for months we were not a good fit, and coincidentally, she had another clients horse for sale that would be perfect for me. Same as what others have mentioned, all I thought of was yeah right, sell this mare and trainer gets commission, and buy another clients horse that of course is the right one for me and trainer makes more $$. Looking back? Wished I had listened sooner. Trainer suggested taking a couple of lessons on said horse, so said sure why not. This horse really did end up being perfect for me. He was everything I didn’t know I wanted/needed and more. Ended up getting him vetted and purchasing him a week after that first lesson, and the little mare went for sale (to a lovely home in another province where she is behaving and cleaning up on the local circuit-> just needed the right rider for her). Once I took emotion out of it I was able to see that trainer was not simply trying to make money off of me and that she really had my best interests in mind, I regretted not having listened sooner and being stubborn and trying to tough it out with the mare. Sometimes even if you adore the horse and can “handle” them, they are just not the right fit. It also really depends on what your goals are with the horse. Also, said horse I bought from trainer was a 17.1 Westphalian gelding-> i’m 5’1. Never had any comments about me being too small on him, and to look at pictures I don’t look the slightest bit small on him and have no issues with control, impulsion, and so forth.

[excowgirlie]

hey guys…just a quick update about our progress…today we had a lesson, 6 Am, 90 degrees, really humid…this is how it went down: lunged granger for 5 minutes, warmed up, started with gymnastics (3foot) and then moved to course work…my horse was a doll…and my trainer was disapointed (that is a nice way of putting it) with ME because my leg was really weak, and we had difficulties with our simple lead changes IE grange was tired, my leg was weak, and they were “ugleee”… some of the remarks from him was "did you forget your pills today? "“im not going to punish your horse today and make him do that again just because you suck”, and “tracy, you have two speeds, 100 mph and 0”, and the best one “your horse can take a joke right now and jump that terrible distance, but he will soon lose his sense of humor” lol…tough love, right? (he definately has a way with words) I really respect and like my trainer and he is making me the best rider I can be…the point to this post today, drumroll please…he said to me…I didnt think it would happen, but to his credit, granger is really coming along, which is a “feather in his cap”…yay! now, i need to work on my LEGLEGLEG…his suggestion was to ride five horses a day with no stirrups…hehe…I have now been told that since granger is listening, I can start wearing a little teeny spur…we have one more lesson on sunday, before the clinic next weekend(sooo excited), im going to work on my lead changes and body position (when i get tired, i tend to get a little “fetal” when asking for one)…one last comment, I took him off of Paco Verde three weeks ago, which is a rye’alfalfa mix, and he is now on grass and rye…(he loves the rye, and it is high in fiber) so I think that may have helped a bit…I am determined to be better…I love this thread…: )

[FineAlready]

Um, your trainer sounds like a complete a-hole.

[QUOTE=excowgirlie;7161337]
hey guys…just a quick update about our progress…today we had a lesson, 6 Am, 90 degrees, really humid…this is how it went down: lunged granger for 5 minutes, warmed up, started with gymnastics (3foot) and then moved to course work…my horse was a doll…and my trainer was disapointed (that is a nice way of putting it) with ME because my leg was really weak, and we had difficulties with our simple lead changes IE grange was tired, my leg was weak, and they were “ugleee”… some of the remarks from him was "did you forget your pills today? "“im not going to punish your horse today and make him do that again just because you suck”, and “tracy, you have two speeds, 100 mph and 0”, and the best one “your horse can take a joke right now and jump that terrible distance, but he will soon lose his sense of humor” lol…tough love, right? (he definately has a way with words) I really respect and like my trainer and he is making me the best rider I can be…the point to this post today, drumroll please…he said to me…I didnt think it would happen, but to his credit, granger is really coming along, which is a “feather in his cap”…yay! now, i need to work on my LEGLEGLEG…his suggestion was to ride five horses a day with no stirrups…hehe…I have now been told that since granger is listening, I can start wearing a little teeny spur…yes, jack has spoken…we have one more lesson on sunday, before the clinic next weekend(sooo excited), im going to work on my lead changes and body position (when i get tired, i tend to get a little “fetal” when asking for one)…one last comment, I took him off of Paco Verde three weeks ago, which is a rye’alfalfa mix, and he is now on grass and rye…(he loves the rye, and it is high in fiber) so I think that may have helped a bit…I am determined to be better…I love this thread…: )[/QUOTE]

[excowgirlie]

,

[lrp1106]

To put it nicely…

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=excowgirlie;7161396]
FA~ LOL…I guess I would rather someone be totally honest with me, and not mince words, than have someone telling me Im doing great, not trying to hurt my feelings, and sugar coating things…but that’s just me…I am total type “A” personality, and he knows I can take it! He has made me cry a few times…but I just “cowgirl up”!!![/QUOTE]

I’m type A too, and I can take criticism. But there is a way to teach that doesn’t involve telling clients that they “suck.” You may not think it is impacting you negatively because you are tough and can take it, but, speaking from experience, those harsh comments with no constructive base do needle into your psyche and will really ruin your confidence over time. My advice is to RUN away.

[twelvebelles]

I think I commented earlier in this thread that I if I was you I would keep the horse and ditch the trainer. Now that I have read your update, I definitely stand by that advice. Being insulted and told you suck by your trainer is not “honest” feedback, it is bullying. When I do something wrong, my trainer doesn’t pretend like I did a great job and blow smoke up my breech-clad bottom. Instead, she provides calm, constructive instructions on how to fix the problem, and has me try again. She’s not sugar coating things, she’s being professional! Don’t you think you deserve positive feedback?

[excowgirlie]

i didnt update to bash my trainer, i updated to say he said my horse is getting better, and basically now i need to step it up…i have been working with him for two years, and his methods work for me…please, i want to keep this positive and encouraging…he is honest and old school, and i am improving with every lesson…thanks!!

[faraway46]

Inspirational quotes that will help…

These are by Bill Steinkraus, legendary equestrian, so I would assume he knows what he’s talking about:

“If you can’t necessarily always have the best horse, you can try to be the best rider, or even better, the best horseman, for then you’ll have more chances to be sitting on a superior horse as well.”

“The wildest of colts only make the best horses.”

“It is not enough for a man to know how to ride; he must know how to fall.”

“The harder you work, the luckier you get.”

I’m not implying you should ignore your trainer because it would annul the whole purpose of having one in the first place. You can have an open mind about selling, exchanging, leasing your horse without being desperate about it. In the meantime, ride him like he were for keeps, which can only make him better, giving you more opportunities to sell, exchange or lease.

Your trainer is not trying to cheat you out of a diamond in the rough. If he thought it was a good deal, he would not have mentioned he is a GP horse. No one tries to buy the painting you found in the attic by saying “I would like to purchase that Renoir you found lying around.” Also, he is not saying you will never be good enough for GP, because no one ever knows that for sure (and if he does, then he should be prognosticating more useful things, like lottery numbers). He is merely stating that the horse is powerful. Sometimes it’s just a matter of physics, height, weight and strength to be able to ride said horse and more so, to withstand a powerful buck.

Don’t think I am writing out of pure imagination: I am exactly, precisely at where you are right now with my 18h chestnut mare. I am 5ft and have had her from scratch. I did her first and second year Young Jumper Championships, but by the end of the second year I understood I was hindering her jump by trying to grab on so tightly over jumps that I made her stiff, knocking poles with her hind end, which was one of her best assets when I bought her. I decided to give her to a pro (my trainer) to show the full 3rd year, over 4’3"-4’6". She did reasonably well, although we are still struggling at times to get her back action as it was. After the third year, I forcefully took over, since my trainer had an accident with another horse. I ended showing her all the way up to 4’3" a couple of times, but he still does it better (since he is a much better rider and is 6ft tall). Long story short, I started her this year well, winter hit and cold climate did it’s thing: I jumped a vertical, she lightly rubbed it and then there was the “I hate rubbing” buck. Down I came, with a fractured hand and hairline stress fracture in my pelvis. This was two weeks ago. I never stopped riding her (contrary to dr orders, crazy me I know but if I don’t continue, I’m afraid I’ll really be afraid…I have to ride past this!) but I tell trainer to continue jumping her this month until I get better, since I can’t risk another fall. Has it hindered my confidence? Yes. Will it stop me from keep trying? No. Has this changed my perspective about trying to sell her to find a more physically adequate mount? Yes, but not as a fire sale. All in all, you have to make do with what ya got… :winkgrin:

Listen to your trainer, don’t get desperate and go about it with baby steps, putting day to day small goals ahead of you.

By the way, I did a Bernie Traurig clinic with her in Buenos Aires. She did well. Remind him of the petite argentinian with the “big chestnut hoase”, as he put it.

Good luck.

[iEquitate]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7161402]
I’m type A too, and I can take criticism. But there is a way to teach that doesn’t involve telling clients that they “suck.” You may not think it is impacting you negatively because you are tough and can take it, but, speaking from experience, those harsh comments with no constructive base do needle into your psyche and will really ruin your confidence over time. My advice is to RUN away.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree, I have been in a similar situation and it ended up giving me confidence issues when I finally switched trainers. Constructive criticism such as “Good job with your leg there, now you just need to back it up with your hand to prevent him from running through the transition” helps you more, and improves your confidence more, than saying that you suck.
I’ve been reading this thread for a while and at first I was surprised by all the “ditch the trainer” comments, as the horse suitability is probably him looking out for your best interests, but the sarcastic, rude comments make me think you should be looking for a new trainer (regardless of whether or not they like you on your horse - look for a trainer whose style suits you first, you can figure out whether or not you want to keep him afterwards)