IMO, sometimes people need to hear that what they are doing is going to ruin their nice horse or that their horse shouldn’t have to put up with the crap ring they are putting out at that particular moment. It’s a reality check that all the flowery “professional” speak snt necessarily going to get across. For instance I’ve known someone who could turn just about all but the most honest horses into stoppers. Someone needed to tell them that, but it never happened. Wouldn’t want this rider to feel bad, now would we?
[QUOTE=RugBug;7162747]
IMO, sometimes people need to hear that what they are doing is going to ruin their nice horse or that their horse shouldn’t have to put up with the crap ring they are putting out at that particular moment. It’s a reality check that all the flowery “professional” speak snt necessarily going to get across. For instance I’ve known someone who could turn just about all but the most honest horses into stoppers. Someone needed to tell them that, but it never happened. Wouldn’t want this rider to feel bad, now would we?[/QUOTE]
See, but there is a nice way to convey that message. It involves sitting down and having an honest, but kind, discussion. Just telling someone they “suck” is rarely the answer.
,
First of all, I think BT is brilliant. From watching this, I would say that the horse needs a world of education on the flat. He seems polite enough down to his fences, but just “wiggly” between the hands and seat. If you are willing to spend the time flatting to get him more solid (dealing with this same issue myself right now) then I’d say it’s worth a shot. Best of luck with your rides today. Looking forward to the footage!
He’s no George Morris
He has good concepts, but I wouldn’t call him a tactful rider.
I think if you took 6 months of dressage lessons you’d have a really nice horse.
OP your horse is lovely. Do you know his breeding?
I watched some of your other videos of you riding. You seem definitely overhorsed. BT even says so at one point – “you need help from your trainer preparing this horse” – before he complimented its quality. In other words, it is too much horse for you unless someone other than you is keeping him in line several times a week.
He is a lovely, very talented horse. He is taking complete advantage of you and doing whatever the heck he wants to, for the most part. I am seriously worried that you are going to get hurt on this pig of a gorgeous horse.
Sell him and you will be able to buy something very nice but easier for you to ride and have fun on. It’s supposed to be fun, not a constant struggle to get the right lead and not have him land and pull you on his neck after every jump.
If this is the “great ride,” then your trainer has been lax in not stepping in before.
I think you need to think seriously about your trainer’s advice, not go all Black Stallion syndrome about this horse. Who will be fine with a strong pro on him. He’s even showing quite a lot of cheekiness with BT up! Not a good fit for you.
I don’t see a horse that’s being a pig. On some of the lines the OP had trouble maintaining her position and she hit the horse in the mouth a few times. Other lines went very well.
Agree that she needs a good trainer who can work with her a lot if things are going to work out with this horse.
I am SO green to all of this and my first impression is your horse is lovely! But I wonder if the head tossing is he doesn’t care for his bit.
…
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7174312]
I don’t see a horse that’s being a pig. On some of the lines the OP had trouble maintaining her position and she hit the horse in the mouth a few times. .[/QUOTE]
How long is this rather opinionated horse going to take that, do you think? Before he just flat out starts dumping OP for it? She’s had him 2 years, it says a lot for him that he isn’t doing it yet. He’s just pulling her forward and shaking his head. But it’s coming unless the tide turns.
I agree with fordtaktor. I see a horse that has completely taken over the ride and IMHO needs a few “Come to Jesus” moments with a good pro and lots and lots of flat work. I think the OP is overhorsed and while he may get better in some aspects with a pro, this horse will always need a rider with very quiet hands and a strong leg.
He’s tired of being hit in the mouth and is so defensive at this point when he’s jumps, part of his behavior is due to the fact he’s anticipating being hit in the mouth. He got better for BT because he immediately corrected him for his bad behavior and then rewarded him with a nice, soft hand over the fences.
,
OMG, excowgirlie. I hope I don’t sound too blunt and discouraging but your posts scare me…hasn’t dumped you in a month? If someone told you they had a really fancy horse that was doing really great and they were encouraged about because it hadn’t dumped them in a month, and when you watch the video you see a ticking time bomb that looked ready to dump them any time, what advice would you give them? Would you feel comfortable saying, “well then, carry on!”
I DO think you should switch trainers to one who is an amazing rider and put the horse in full training for 90 days, then have the trainer ride it 3 days a week and you ride it the rest once the initial period is up. In the meantime, ride a schoolie five times a week and hit the gym an hour a day to strengthen your core and relearn your defensive riding, and then learn to go on the offensive/take control of this horse again. That’s the only way I see this working. If you really want to move forward with this horse, that’s what you are going to have to do (or something very like it).
This looks like a horse that NEEDS a program, and one that includes regular pro rides.
((hugs)) to you, as I can tell you are a very determined person who maybe is too determined for her own good, and you obviously love this horse or you wouldn’t continue to have such a sunny view of this situation. I hope you find a solution.
I agree with many if the posters and your coach. I watched your videos of you riding and I think at the VERY least you should take some lessons on a packer school horse type and work in your position. I would like to see softer hands, more leg, and a quieter elbow. This horse needs a more experienced rider as he looks quite green. I see future disasters over fences happening.
I’ve been following your thread but haven’t posted- but I just watched the videos. I wasn’t crazy about the clinician but I don’t really do much in H/J land anymore.
- No trainer, even if he is god (but maybe if he is George Morris), is allowed to verbally abuse you. Being told that you suck will not increase your confidence. Period.
- I do think a trainer needs to tell a student when they are overhorsed, but in a tactful way. If the student decides to proceed anyways, fine. But, there may be a time when the trainer says I can’t help you anymore, and you have to find a new trainer.
- I think you do need a new trainer- one who is not abusive and does actually ride so they can put training rides on your horse. Especially if you keep going with this horse, you definitely need a new trainer.
- The horse looks high maintenance. He’s big, hot, and sensitive. I have retrained OTTBs before and I would not want that horse. I’m not sure that horse will ever be the ride you want, despite how you are progressing with him.
Your position isn’t perfect but who’s is? Everyone has a bad fence once in while, not the end of the world. I’m not very good at seeing distances, but I have a good horse that I trust and he’ll usually bail my butt out of sticky situations.
He is a very nice horse!! But, at your current ability you are going to ruin him. I honestly can’t believe he doesn’t dump you more often. Each fence, I was cringing. It says something about him that he isn’t WORSE for you.
Good advice here. No reason you can’t keep him, but it’s going to take a lot on work before (if ever?) that you two will be cohesive. If you continue on without pro rides he WILL get to the point he’s had enough of those hands and it will not be pretty. There is no shame in having a pro ride while you ride a sensible schoolie. That way, you both get better, so when you come together, things are quite such a mess.
I agree with your trainer. Having a warm blood just to have a warm blood (because they are trendy or because you got a deal on him) is like having a truck when a bike will do. You need a horse that gets the job done. At your age, a safe sane packer you enjoy would be better
^ This X 100!
And don’t wait on it - even though it’s been a work in progress for years & you have a sense that it’ll just be another fall, that next fall could be the one where you get seriously injured :no:
Horse is completely disrespectful.
CindyCRNA asked
But I wonder if the head tossing is he doesn’t care for his bit.
It’s unlikely a bit issue.
OP if you lack the budget to follow through with fordtraktor’s advice, look for the budget version by having (new) trainer & trainer’s recommended student sort out a program.
Was this horse bred by David Weller?
And if so, did you buy directly from him?
I agree - a pro needs to be on the horse several days a week - and my trainer not let you jump until you got your hands under control (instead would be working over poles, concentrating on position, and adjusting stride).
There is no reason to be jumping at this stage - think how much more pleasant jumping will be for both of you if you get your position under control, and your horse working well, light and adjustable on the flat first.
And once jumping again - a NECK STRAP - its just not okay to hit them in the mouth like that. It will ruin just about any jumper. Neck strap / grab mane EVERY fence - it needs to happen - no more hitting him in the face, its not fair.
Sorry to be blunt - I am currently not as riding fit as I used to be. I make sure to to get a good grab of mane, and or use my neck strap - my green horse must NOT be punished for jumping enthusiastically.
