Narrow twist Black Country saddle?

[fanfayre]

Paging Kitt, or Jaybird, or all arm chair saddlers!!!:):

I’m in the process of selling a BC Quantum- K-panels, wither gussets, fits the horse superbly well (like custom-fitted, but as I bought is 2nd hand it obviously wasn’t), and I got many compliments on my leg position both on the flat and over fences.

So why am I selling it?

It’s way too wide in the twist for me, and I’d get off sore every time (and I’ve ridden in ALL kinds of saddles- Passier, Kieffer, Courbette, Crosby, Stubben, no-names, very old Zaldi- I’m sure you’ve got the idea)…

My question is, once it’s sold I’d like to replace it, but which BC jumping saddle is known for a narrow twist? I’ve studied the BC website and all their models and I just can’t tell. I’d like to replace with a used BC, and I’d look for one with the K panels, wither gussets and a narrow twist. Naturally used is preferable, but if I have to go with a new one, I’d like to specify all the above, with a short flap for my 28" leg (:eek:)

What I’m riding in right now is a Jaguar monoflap, which fits me great and the horse not too badly (at least she goes fine in it and no signs of poor fit) , but which I’m just 'meh" about. My Quantum I loved the fit on her and my security but it was just too wide (ouch) for me. I’d hope to trade in my Jaguar plus what I get for the Quantum if I have to go new, while if I can find a used BC to meet my criteria I’d sell the Jaguar after.
If I can’t find a BC to meet those specs, what saddle is similar in the < $2000 range?
Thanks in advance

[jaybird660]

Black Country does make some monoflap jump saddles although we don’t stock them. I have found that some people find the K panel a bit more “between the legs” than the trapezius panel. I haven’t personally noticed a huge difference but some do. The Etienne and the Solare are a bit more streamlined than the Quantum TR or the Ricochet. The Vinici Tex Eventer or Vinici with your options might feel narrower in the twist due to the lack of the extra flap.
Sometimes a bigger seat size of being absolutely sure the balance is correct can make a difference in the twist because being pushed up against the pommel of being slightly off in balance can make the twist feel off.
I like a narrow twist and in my dressage saddle ride in the monoflap but find the Quantum TR very comfortable.

[Carried_Away]

I have the trapezius panel on my BC Quantum and find the twist quite narrow. What size is the tree? My dressage saddle is a Prestige Optimax and I feel like the twist on that is way wider than my BC - could be worth checking into the different panels? I am also short like you so I get it!

[Kitt]

Uh … unless BC has radically changed their tree design (or unless you have a BC Ricochet, which is the Quantum built on the Wexford tree), your saddle has trapezius panels rather than a K panel. The Close Contact tree is too minimal to support a K panel, but it can be had with a trap. panel. If that’s the case, the trapezius panel can cause fit issues if it doesn’t hit in exactly the right place, and that could affect the way the saddle feels for you. Can you double-check and let us know? It would be helpful.

That said, twist width is a function of tree construction, and the Quantum is usually built on the Close Contact tree, which is pretty flat. This makes the twist flatter than on a more curved tree, as in the one used in the Ricochet/Wexford. Twist width is also pretty subjective; one person’s hip-rippingly wide twist will be perfect for the next person, while one person’s knife-edge narrow twist will suit the next person perfectly.

[fanfayre]

Thank for your input, both Jay and Kitt, and Kitt- I know about the personal feel of twists- I’ve never sat in a saddle that started out fine but over time got to feel so hip-rippingly wide, as you put it:D It’s got to be the regular Close Contact tree because it does sit nice and flat along her back, while my Jaguar has a little curve at the back.

Here’s the serial # and the communication with BC after I had bought the saddle since I wanted to know all I could about the saddle:

#10550 is a 17" Quantum Jump, a Medium fit with a front gusset and a k-panel made in September 2008.
(the ad is actually still up on the BC website after nearly 3 years- it’s entitled Quantum GPX and is labelled as 17.5")

So maybe I actually need a 17.5 on a Close Contact treee? In a monoflap. Except then the flap will be way too long, unless I can find one made for another shorty like me who’s selling for next to nothing ;)…

Carried Away, my dressage saddle is a custom made Regal (18" with 14" flaps), which I believe is built on a modified Passier tree, and I don’t find the twist at all wide. The Prestige tree, at least on the D2000 we placed on her for comparison to the 3 saddles I have, was far too curved for her but that twist wasn’t too bad for me either, so maybe I just bought a really funky Quantum. Or maybe BC saddles just aren’t made to fit me and I have to look for a different brand. Que sera, sera

[jaybird660]

A GPX flap is generally a low forward flap. The monoflap saddles can be made with a straighter or shorter flap. Of course, finding one used like that could be like a needle in a haystack. The monoflaps are pricier in general, to begin with.

[fanfayre]

That’s what I was afraid of:no:

[Kitt]

[QUOTE=fanfayre;7483004]
Thank for your input, both Jay and Kitt, and Kitt- I know about the personal feel of twists- I’ve never sat in a saddle that started out fine but over time got to feel so hip-rippingly wide, as you put it:D

Here’s the serial # and the communication with BC after I had bought the saddle since I wanted to know all I could about the saddle:

#10550 is a 17" Quantum Jump, a Medium fit with a front gusset and a k-panel made in September 2008.
(the ad is actually still up on the BC website after nearly 3 years- it’s entitled Quantum GPX and is labelled as 17.5")[/QUOTE]

Huh. I’m going to follow up w/BC on that. In 2008, the tree used in the Quantum didn’t support a K panel, so I’m mystified. Let you know what I find!

[Jumper_girl221]

When I got my saddle fitted last year the mare needed K panels and wither gussets. I liked the quantum better for me personally but went with the ricochet since that’s what worked for the mare. I was also told that the quantum wouldn’t support k panels due to the tree.

[fanfayre]

[QUOTE=Kitt;7483403]
Huh. I’m going to follow up w/BC on that. In 2008, the tree used in the Quantum didn’t support a K panel, so I’m mystified. Let you know what I find![/QUOTE]

Veerry interrestink…

[mvp]

I went through a Black Country phase of my saddle hunt/research. The Wexford tree would be the place to start. But IMO, BC seems to put the rails of their tree right up close to the surface of the seat.

If you have a bony butt and a bony saddle, that might be your problem rather than the width of the twist, exactly.

[AnotherRound]

Interesting topic. I was at a tack store this weekend, looking, visually for saddles I thought I would like. A narrow twist is sooo much better for me than anything else. I remember finding the black country saddle, and I have to say just looking at them made my hips hurt, and my legs swing. The several saddles I saw were just bizzarrly big and flat looking in the seat, but I do admit I don’t know anything about the mechanics of the saddles. Just that it did appear obvious to uneducated ole me this weekend.

[Kitt]

Mystery solved! Just heard from Cassie at BC, and she said the saddle in question was built on the GP tree - so in effect I’d guess it could be called a Ricochet, which is a Quantum built on the GP tree with a K-type panel (similar to the panel config. of a Wexford). Fit will be different from that of a Quantum on the close contact tree; the GP tree is more curved and substantial (hence it being able to support a K panel).

[caryledee]

I am just curious if they do this often (changing everything around and still calling it by the same name.) I have ridden in 3 different Quantums now and they all felt a little different. Loved one (a new one) but have been kind of ho hum about the used ones I tried. They just didn’t feel the same, even though they were labeled the same size. I guess this would explain why.

[fanfayre]

[QUOTE=mvp;7483779]

If you have a boney butt and a bony saddle, that might be your problem rather than the width of the twist, exactly.[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol: Bony butt- I wish :lol::lol: rather too much the other way, I’m afraid- definitely fleshy.

[fanfayre]

Wow, Kitt, you’re amazing!!! I hereby dub you Sherlock Kitt :D. Never would I have thought of questioning how they came up with the Quantum name with all the permutations of that saddle.
So if I want the fit of that saddle for my horse but a narrow twist I could still have the K panel and wither gusset on a GPX tree but a Tex or Solare seat? In a used price range;) (not that I’m asking for the impossible or anything, lol)

[Kitt]

[QUOTE=fanfayre;7484506]
Wow, Kitt, you’re amazing!!! I hereby dub you Sherlock Kitt :D. Never would I have thought of questioning how they came up with the Quantum name with all the permutations of that saddle.
So if I want the fit of that saddle for my horse but a narrow twist I could still have the K panel and wither gusset on a GPX tree but a Tex or Solare seat? In a used price range;) (not that I’m asking for the impossible or anything, lol)[/QUOTE]

Thanks, but hardly amazing - all I did was email Cassie for the specs. She kindly sends me the whole story including the tree, panel config, and any modifications for the rider, as she would for any fitter.

BC will make pretty much any of their saddles on any of their trees, with pretty much any panel config (as much as the tree will allow, anyway) - that’s one of the beauty of them, as they can be modified to fit pretty much any horse. So yes, you could get the Tex (and probably the Solare, though that’s a newer model with which I’m not yet familiar) on the GPX tree … or the close contact tree … or the hoop tree … or pretty much any tree they make.

[jaybird660]

The Solare is not available with a hoop tree, FYI.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=AnotherRound;7483870]
Interesting topic. I was at a tack store this weekend, looking, visually for saddles I thought I would like. A narrow twist is sooo much better for me than anything else. I remember finding the black country saddle, and I have to say just looking at them made my hips hurt, and my legs swing. The several saddles I saw were just bizzarrly big and flat looking in the seat, but I do admit I don’t know anything about the mechanics of the saddles. Just that it did appear obvious to uneducated ole me this weekend.[/QUOTE]

If you are speaking of the Quantum/Maelstrom CC saddles, I think you are right about the seat design, for the most part. I could feel the rails on the MW demo I tried. It was unusual in my long saddle owning experience. But the balance point of the seat-- that valley between pommel and cantle-- is “open”. It’s a long and flat valley as opposed to, say, a French bucket design.

I really like that build of a saddle, but it’s not for everyone. I can tell you what it is about my body/conditioning that makes me ok with a wide twist or an open seat. Sometimes that helps saddle shoppers figure our that their butt wants.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Kitt;7483895]
Mystery solved! Just heard from Cassie at BC, and she said the saddle in question was built on the GP tree - so in effect I’d guess it could be called a Ricochet, which is a Quantum built on the GP tree with a K-type panel (similar to the panel config. of a Wexford). Fit will be different from that of a Quantum on the close contact tree; the GP tree is more curved and substantial (hence it being able to support a K panel).[/QUOTE]

So does that mean that a saddle built on a Ricochet (Wexford?) tree have the same long balance point in the seat? Or is the top of the saddle scoopier, too?