Sorry Michelle, I am never sure who is who with you and Monica. It all makes sense now though!!! Monica is a great photographer. In fact I just bought all the pictures she did of my horses at YHS.
Maggie
Thank you, Maggie!
She invests a great deal of time and dedication in her work.
I, for one, am glad that these “issues” are being brought up and discussed. My local breeder’s group is seriously considering hosting one of the shows for our area. I have no idea if they would be run by the exact same rules, etc. or what they are planning. However, I can say that there is no way I’m letting anyone else handle my young horses through the jump chute. No way. So I guess that will leave us out, anyway 
Back on topic; the only reason I haven’t used a registry like NAS or Continental is the issue of acceptance by other registries. I get that many people here feel like we should be moving away from the Euro based registries and finding our own N. American path, but marketability is an issue. For a lot of my buyers (mostly young horses pre-under saddle work), registry matters. Especially those who are buying fillies for future breeding (and myself); they want to know that the registration papers will make those fillies eligible for inspection with one of the “major” registries. I believe that if NAS or the Continental studbook were recognized by registries like GOV, AHHA, Hanoverian, etc. then they would be used more often. However, I also fully realize that is not their goal and I think more power to them!
My horse was in the finals. I agree with Maggie on her observations and recommendations. My horse was a bit panicked and up in the chute. It was a bit overwhelming for her and busy. I liked earlier shows when there was an educational portion and the judges talked to the audience about what they were looking for and why. I think it needed more publicity as a showcase and sales opportunity, perhaps promoted as the VDL auction is doing now. I did it, but I don’t think I would again. I don’t think we really got anything from going. I am curious about what is being breed here in the states and opportunities for young prospects with good potential without the import fees. I bought my horse from the VDL. I would like to know about the same quality being breed here. I did get a chance to talk to Maggie about admiring hers. Showcasing American breeders in a good idea. Perhaps Monica could use her PR to send out promotions of what is being showed and bloodlines. My mare is KWPN, so I am not looking at the NAS registry. I agree about sending out surveys to entries for evaluations and recommendations to make this event something that breeders can use. I would love to have American judges, i.e. George Morris, or Mclain Ward, or some of our top local riders/trainers. Just my two cents.
Although my wife and I spend much time reading and enjoying peoples opinions on the Chronicle Forums we very rarely put in our own two cents. I do realize that the things posted here are generally peoples opinions and skewed due to many factors.
We are breeders of Belgian Warmblood hunters and jumpers. We enjoy the Young Horse shows and attended every one of the Spy Coast shows in Florida last year. We generally bring 4-5 horses to each of these shows. Sometimes we do great, sometimes our horses are horses… All that being said, my wife and I have been very disillusioned with the way the shows have been run in the later portion of the year. We are currently discussing whether we are attending them this year.
Firstly, I would like to compliment the judges and handlers that the show provided. I personally feel that they have done a fantastic job dealing with my kids. All our horses have different personalities and need to be handled accordingly. I feel that they accomplished this as well as anyone could have.
That being said there have been so many other problems that we have personally had to deal with that have gotten us very discouraged. The first show seemed to go well and it has gone progressively downhill since that point. I have discussed all of these problems with Jean Yves one or more times so this is not going to be new to him. My biggest challenge is that some of these problems continued well after they were brought to the horse shows attention.
When we arrived at Wellington for the finals (with four horses) there was no one in the office and no stall chart to show us where to stall our kids. Keeping two stallions and two mares on a parked trailer for an hour while we found someone that could tell us where we were stabled wasn’t cool. To add insult to injury they stabled our stallions back to back with three other stallions. That also did not work out so well.
The format of the finals made no sense to us. There is a set format in this country for the in hand classes. This format was followed for every other show of the year but then changed for the finals. We train our horses, we spend time getting them to jog on the triangle in hand (isn’t that what the class is called? “in hand”). The class is not called “running around loose the entire time”. If it isn’t broken do not fix it. The free jumping chute had the same problems. They have been trying to find the best way to present the horses, but in all the other shows the horses were walked/trotted around the first corner and then caught at the end of the chute. The Qualifying class on Thurs was run like that and then for the finals, they were allowed to canter around the ring non stop or stopped but not caught and walked back to the start. There are pros and cons to each way of running the class but changing it just for the finals, makes no sense nor was that how the horses were prepped.
Not once have they gotten the ownership of our horses right. We have complained about that for three shows. When they announce the ownership of the horses they just do not seem to be able to say the name of our farm even though it is listed as the owner of the horses on all our entry forms. (of course it is our fault according to Jean Yves since we generally don’t get our entries in until the week before). Along along with that they constantly
have not corrected the dam and dam sires of the horses even though we have put them on the entry forms. When asked to write a short Bio on the horses that were in the finals, we gave them to the office 3hrs prior to the start of the classes and they did not have it ready for our first Yearling in the ring. We had to ask why the Bio was not read. It was finally found but we were not the only ones that the bios were missing on or inaccurately read.
There is always a concern for the safety of the horses and owners, and one way is having small round pens available for the horses to warm up or just hang in if they are acting up. At the finals, the pens were no bigger then stall size and none had doors to enter. The pins had to be removed and the entire side panel moved to get in. Most of the young horses did wonderfully under the lights, but there were a few that may have benefited from a little lounge or area to get away from others. A warm up area would have been a great benefit for the horses only showing in the jump chute.
Communication seems to be lacking and it oftentimes seems as if the right hand does not tell the left what it is doing. We arrived on Thursday expecting the yearlings to compete first after braiding the night before, only to find out that since only 5 yearlings signed up then there was no qualifying class necessary. Could we not have been informed about the schedule change prior to our arrival at the show grounds at 8 when the classes started. Then there ended up being 6 in the finals. Times got changed for classes Friday afternoon for the under saddle classes.
In summary these are only a few of the challenges we have experienced. To list them all would be way too wordy (as if I wasn’t already). All horse shows have their challenges and mistakes, that is a fact. This being said we are an experienced horse showing family and have been extremely disappointed with the way the YHS is being run. Please listen to the people that try and help by giving constructive criticism. If we and one or two other farms decide to withdraw our support and do not attend the series you have suddenly lost 25-35% of your entries. We all care and we all want to see this series work but it will not if there is not a separation of the NAS and the show itself. Good for him for having the cajones to go out and do it but if the horses that are being registered are less quality than what our European counterparts are breeding then we will always fall behind in the breeding game. When you are giving out gift certificates for the NAS registry as a prize, you will have a hard time gaining the support of the other breed registries. Fix the errors that your owners are telling you about the first time they bring it up and you will succeed, don’t and you will lose the support of those people and the YHS will cease to exist.
Once again, only my opinion.
Dorian Farmer
And as a quick side note…Monica does rock! Her pictures are always fantastic and we are lucky to have her at our shows.
Dorian
While it sounds as though there have been definite problems at the last few shows (esp. the finals), there is another major concern for many folks - ie., the fact that the show series is being used to support the building of a private registry (and one not listed as a non-profit).
IOW - NAS is “owned” by the Tolas of Jump Start Farm (the Jean-Yves referred to in some of the above posts as the person “in charge” at the shows). And, Lisa Lourie of Spy Coast Farm (the major sponsor of the shows), is a director of NAS (there are actually only three people listed as directors - the Tolas and Lisa Lourie).
It just doesn’t sit well with some folks that some funds from the shows organized/hosted by the NAS principles goes to NAS - and again, esp. since NAS is not a non-profit. While there may be no actual impropriety going on, there should be a clearer financial delineation between the two entities.
As mentioned before, I really like the concept of the Y/H shows as a way to showcase American breeders. I also like the idea of bringing together hunter, jumper, and dressage type young horses in one venue. The hope was that eventually trainers and buyers from all disciplines will catch on and realize that these shows are good opportunities to see promising prospects. I would just like to know that funds from the shows are not finding their way into the NAS coffers (or to the JSF or SPF coffers).
If you provide a service… Even one some have complaints about you are not expected to do it for free :lol:
If someone puts forth the capital, they are not a rescue for goodness sake.
Whenever a registry springs forward, or testings, or pretty much anything, we Americans are so quick to tear it to pieces.
With all its faults… The European registries had to start somewhere as well, and I am sure Bob the breeder wasn’t too sure about Bert’s inspections to begin with… But these things don’t become perfect in a day.
If an American registry (that’s new) is making ANY money then it bodes well for the sport.
Not everyone is out to be fraudulent.
I find it amazing that every time someone (NAS, SCF, and all YHS people in this case) tries to really DO something about (not just talk about) the state of the breeding industry in this country (which really, REALLY needs help, including such programs as the YHS and registries like NAS), there is always going to be some people, who are the first to complain about that very state, that will also be the first to go out of their way to stifle it. Especially when done without proper research and honesty. I just do not understand, never have, never will.
I have also attended the YHS series and finals because I was excited when I heard about a venue to show my horses. It is normal and obvious that the shows need some miles to get where they should be. I don’t think aby of you just picked up an instrument the first fewtimes and played it perfectly, or got on a horse and jumped a field full of grand prix jumps… Maggie? You? The biggest equine venues go through the same process. That said, I find the events to be of a great format with consistent and well qualified judging, extremely educational, well run over all, very safe AND I have a hard time remembering getting ANY kind of prize money for showing Young horses at any venue of this kind (even showing on the line at Devon).
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I have approached both Lisa and Jean Yves at the shows and found them very hard at work but still friendly, willing and ready to listen and help, being the first to say that this is still a baby and it needs improvement. Most of the complaints I read seem to be the regular complaints you hear about some competitors at all the shows I go to. There are days with and days without, that’s how I look at it.
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As far as the NAS, SCF, Jean Yves and the money conflicts/questions debate goes,I will saythis: You guys are really trying to find problems where there are none. You should be thankful that these folks, especially SCF and NAS, are putting their name, time, and money into this project. These people are the ones that came up with this concept, they do the work and there is a lot of it… (those of you who have hosted a small inspection or show know what I mean). Therefore, I have absolutely no problem paying the fees. We pay fees to a lof of organizations all year long for our horses, especially at shows.Could it be thatthere are some of you that are simply threatened by the fact that a North American registry is finally doing something for breeders? Across the board, I might add, open to horses of all registries? What is wrong with that? On the money front, NOBODY is making money at this time, I promise you. They are losing a bunch! Don’t you guys get paid when you work? I know I do.
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Anyways, these are my two cents. Is the YHS perfect? No. Do they know its not perfect? Yes. And I am also sure they’re working on these issues as I write this. But I am not about to criticize them for trying! What good does that do? If you don’t like to attend the shows, don’t attend. But don’t plaster it all over a public board and try to convice those who haven’t gotten a chance to attend that its useless or “ridiculous”. Help it to succeed so that breeders have a venue to showcase their special young horses. Why not?
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I breed and want a real market for my horses. I know some business has already been made due to the YH shows (horse sales, breedings, etc…). It is easy to criticize, but at the end of the day, there is always going to be the ones that talk and the ones that walk.
I love to walk… so do the horses!!!
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Sadly you have completely missed the point. We ARE all trying to support the YHS and make it better but our MANY suggestions in the past have fallen on deaf ears. Unless you were actually competing a horse you would have no idea what was going on behind the scenes. Nor would you understand the frustration of a really badly run show. I brought 8 horses to each show to be supportive. It was a lot of work and expense. My horses did very well so this is not “sour grapes”. It is meant to be constructive criticism. Most importantly some of the issues that need to be fixed are to insure no horses get hurt, because we had WAY too many close calls in the past shows. I know I will not allow any of my horses to get hurt. It’s that simple.
All of the people posting here (and many who don’t want to post but feel the same way) make up a very large percentage of the exhibitors. Unless new management is put in place it will be impossible to continue to participate. If you are going to do something, do it well. Yes everything has growing pains but so far none of us are seeing any changes being made. Even though we have asked over and over.
Maggie
[QUOTE=MaggieF;6106799]
…I brought 8 horses to each show to be supportive…
Maggie[/QUOTE]
Maggie, we did not see you at the Ocala YHS show in October, 2011, and eight of your horses WOULD be hard to hide, especially since I was announcing! Please try to make your comments accurate.
I reiterate my invitation to you to attend our March and October 2012 YHS Ocala shows where we do our utmost to accommodate breeders, horses, trainers and potential buyers. Lessons are always to be learned, to be sure, but so far we have seen no criticism of our co-hosted events.
[QUOTE=iconicbayequestrian;6106183]
…
Not once have they gotten the ownership of our horses right. We have complained about that for three shows. When they announce the ownership of the horses they just do not seem to be able to say the name of our farm even though it is listed as the owner of the horses on all our entry forms…
Dorian Farmer[/QUOTE]
Again, I feel compelled, since in this instance I am the announcer at the Ocala shows, to address this point. I truly cannot believe that I am mispronouncing the very iconic name of your Iconic Bay Farm and horses given my 35 years behind a microphone at the UN in far more stressful and challenging circumstances. Can it be possible? No one has brought any corrections to my attention. If corrections should be made, I would be more than pleased to make them as I am very embarassed by mispronounciations of any kind— names, foreign terms, etc., etc. Our own farm name, Sakura Hill Farm, is habitually mangled at HITS, RMI and elsewhere and I am always quick to ask the announcer to correct it. When asked directly and politely I have found that they,similar to myself, are all more than happy to make the correction.
[QUOTE=Sakura Hill Farm;6106804]
Maggie, we did not see you at the Ocala YHS show in October, 2011, and eight of your horses WOULD be hard to hide, especially since I was announcing! Please try to make your comments accurate.
I reiterate my invitation to you to attend our March and October 2012 Ocala shows where we do our utmost to accommodate breeders, horses, trainers and potential buyers. Lessons are always to be learned, to be sure, but so far we have seen no criticism of our co-hosted events.[/QUOTE]
Michele,
Obviously I meant the WEF shows!!! Why would you even make such an absurd statement??? Why would I drive all the way to Ocala when all my horses were qualified???
Maybe you better talk to some of your exhibitors!!! From what I hear you had 30 horses, the show started at 8:00 AM and when the people who told me this story left after the 3 yr old division it was after 5:00 PM and you were still not close to finished. They also said their was no shade and everyone baked all day.
But since all you exhibitors loved your show so much, by all means don’t change anything.
Maggie
[QUOTE=MaggieF;6106825]
Michele,
Obviously I meant the WEF shows!!! Why would you even make such an absurd statement??? Why would I drive all the way to Ocala when all my horses were qualified???
Maybe you better talk to some of your exhibitors!!! From what I hear you had 30 horses, the show started at 8:00 AM and when the people who told me this story left after the 3 yr old division it was after 5:00 PM and you were still not close to finished. They also said their was no shade and everyone baked all day.
But since all you exhibitors loved your show so much, by all means don’t change anything.
Maggie[/QUOTE]
Good Grief, folks!
Similar to the day of the show in October, it is splendid weather outside! I bet the folks up North envy us the opportunity to bake all day! But we could try to order up some less balmy and sunny weather if that would suit for March and October. No guarantees, however!
We did set up some canopies but perhaps could increase the number. Maybe your contacts thought that they were only for the more elderly among us, Masu Hammacher being among them.
Were your interlocutors denied an opportunity to exhibit their horses because of the lateness of the hour? I didn’t hear of any incident like that, but, as I have said, I was behind the microphone. Actually, the show did not start at 8 AM as the outlet that our co-host Cavi-Farm had had installed specifically to accommodate the concession for this show did not function properly and it was necessary to use the back-up generator. It did not start until some time after 9 AM. Such are the snafus of a first-time venture, held at a private farm to keep costs low for the breeders and the atmosphere relaxed for the participants. Cav-i Farm is to be commended for their outstanding organization and venue, and thanked for their generosity in making it available to the YHS at considerable cost and effort on their own part.
The criticism that we have HEARD of our event have been politely and constructively conveyed to us and are being addressed. Not everything can be changed, nor will all change be overnight. Yours, Maggie, is the only criticism that I have SEEN of our event. There is a difference.
I personally was encouraged by the comment of one of our participants who thanked us for our efforts after the show and said that they had not had such a pleasant and beneficial experience at a show for years!
We are working to make this a sentiment shared by all.
SpyCoast Farm is hardly in need of funds from NAS LOL
But if you were involved with actual competition you’d already know that.
It seems you don’t realize that SPF sponsors many classes at WEF and Hampton Classic plus being kind enough to provide funding for a Jumper Classic held on Long Island at a charity show.
I have no dog in this fight as I haven’t done any business with them but please stop making subtle complaints about one of the few American breeders that puts their money where their mouth is and actually supports Show Jumping on a MAJOR scale.
Hmm, just a life observation, but when you’re trying to placate unhappy customers (especially with a new/unknown venture and said customers are spending $$$), the correct response, even to unfounded criticisms, is usually best done something like, “I’m so sorry you felt that way. I will definitely keep that in mind and try to correct it in the future. Thank you so much for bringing it to our attention.” But obviously not everyone agrees. Carry on.
NAS and YHS Series
I have had forwarded to me comments made on this forum recently. As a Breeder who is now registering my horses NAS and a supporter of the YHS series I want to comment. Please bear with me as this is a first!
I will comment on NAS first. For my own reasons I chose to register my horses NAS. I had to provide a five generation pedigree for my mares,young horses, and the Stallions I used. DNA was taken from all my foals,young horses,and mares. The Stallions I breed to: Quick Silber,Converter,Chacco Blue, Sir Shutter Fly, Conthargos, Quintador, Stakkato Gold,Siec Livello,Ashby to name a few, will have their DNA compared. I am very glad to place my horses in one registry as my mares are from a variety of registries. NAS is working very hard to support Breeders of quality sport horses who chose this registry.
Now, on to the YHS series. First and foremost, Spy Coast and NAS came up with a format for this and followed through. Their support of time,hard work and finances is what keep it going along with others who have joined in with their support. I hosted the Qualifier along with Sakura Hill Farm at my farm in Ocala. It takes a great deal of effort and time by everyone to hold a qualifier. Our grounds/stall fee was $70 and the office fee was $35. The class fees of $35 for under saddle and $65 for classes using handlers are very reasonable. I have managed,worked at,attended, and held USDF Breed Shows as well as inspections. The cost of a handler was usually $50. ( $15 and $50 = $65) Need I say more! My farm is a working farm not a show place. When preparing for weeks to hold this the safety of the horses was always put first! everyone worked long hours to make our show safe and a success. I am here to tell you that it is not a money maker! We had a large number of volunteers as well as quite a few spectators and buyers. So many people have commented on how great it is that these shows are becoming available. We asked for suggestions for improvement. Our sound system was portable and not strong enough. This has been taken care of for the future shows. Stall charts, emergency numbers (vets,mine,jean Yves’s) were posted throughout the barns. Each stall had the owners name posted on it.
I want to “Thank” everyone, the originators,participants,hosts,volunteers,spectators,and buyers for their continued interest and suppot. Let’s continue to make this a positive venue for all to show and sell their young horses.Thank You! Candy Rich Cav-i Farm
Just wanted to say I am super excited to take my 2 year old to the show on the 7th! It’s nice to have a place to show the young horses down south without having to haul to Ocala or more north for just one or two classes!
[QUOTE=Sakura Hill Farm;6106823]
Again, I feel compelled, since in this instance I am the announcer at the Ocala shows, to address this point. I truly cannot believe that I am mispronouncing the very iconic name of your Iconic Bay Farm and horses given my 35 years behind a microphone at the UN in far more stressful and challenging circumstances. Can it be possible? No one has brought any corrections to my attention. If corrections should be made, I would be more than pleased to make them as I am very embarassed by mispronounciations of any kind— names, foreign terms, etc., etc. Our own farm name, Sakura Hill Farm, is habitually mangled at HITS, RMI and elsewhere and I am always quick to ask the announcer to correct it. When asked directly and politely I have found that they,similar to myself, are all more than happy to make the correction.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the mistakes that are made are not so much in pronunciation but it the name just being wrong. They continue to list Heather as the owner, not the farm. Although my wife is awesome and any advertising she gets for her is appreciated, Iconic Bay actually owns the kids and is listed that way on the entry form. No one is perfect, certainly not myself or my wife but we had the same complaint at the last three shows and was never corrected.
Yes, I have also done the math and no one is getting rich off the YHS. No, Spy Coast Farms doesn’t need our money. Yes, it is a lot of work and takes dedication to put on a show. All that bein said, when I bring four horses and spend my very hard earned money (unfortunately we both also work for a living) we expect for our concerns to be heard. If you don’t agree with us that is your prerogative, no problem. Just understand that it takes exibitors to fill the show and the classes. If we feel unheard we (collectively) will allow the show to replace us. Btw Michelle, this last paragraph was not directed to you or your Ocala show. You and my wife have spoken and I appreciate your concern and dedication.
OMG Michelle, why do you always have to try to be the center of attention!!! None of the comments here were about you and your show. I wasn’t at your show, nor do I gives two cents about it. Yet again trying to ride someone elses wave.
Candice, go with any registry you want. Again, this is not any of our concern, nor do we care.
FYI, Jean-Yves didn’t come up with this concept. I’ll let it go at that.
Maggie
