Ok…not my horse, but at a barn I work at. Don’t have to deal with him often, but when I do, he comes at me with jaws wide open, looking to bite you. I have no problem dealing with him, his jaw has met my fist. But, owners are not happy with this, and they are trying to deal with him differently. Fine by me, as long as I don’t have to handle him, but if he is gonna go after me, I’m going to go after him. I would much rather deal with this horse with kindness, but nothing seems to work. There is always the odd occasion where I do have to handle him, and I am not gonna stand for being attacked by a big late gelded horse. Any ideas? They are trying to clicker train, amongst other things, and they are very experienced horse people, and actually seem to be getting somewhere with this ass of of a horse. Just looking for any ideas with this kind of horse? He is young, huge, not generally nasty, but just loves to bite, anyone and anything.
Is he actively trying to bite or just coming at you with pinned ears & mouth open?
My husband’s TWH came to us with this habit.
He demonstrated it when we went to look at him.
BO’s (private barn that boarded this one horse besides BO’s) response was to grab a halter & smack him with it.
Turned out BO was also a moron who didn’t want this non-registered horse to mingle with his “show horses”.
Horse was registered Racking, just not TWHBEA.
So he was turned out alone, or more often, left stalled.
HO had bought him recently, then got pregnant & so ill her first trimester she couldn’t come to the barn.
What appeared as aggression was really just a bid for attention. Even the negative attention was better than nothing.
When we got him home & ignored the open-mouthed, pinned ears lunging he gave it up pretty quick & turned out to be a very personable, in-your-pocket horse.
If you can do the same - ignore the aggressive approach - you may get the same result.
If he comes at you when you approach him in his stall, can you just casually close the stall door & come back later to do whatever?
If stall is open to the aisle, step back & continue as if nothing happened.
Getting back at him, as you described “his jaw has met my fist” is engaging & giving him a reaction to his action.
There’s your answer. It’s not on you to fix this horses issues. If I worked at barn I would absolutely refuse to handle a horse like this and if that was not an option, I wouldn’t work there.
And just so you know, a horse that is truly really aggressive… a punch in the mouth won’t help you. It’s one thing if a horse is just a little mouthy and nippy then yea a smack is usually enough to stop that behavior. But ears back jaw open? No that’s a whole different ball game. Don’t get involved. This horse needs far more help than internet advice can give you.
Well, that’s totally not helpful.
She’s asking for resources to change the behavior. Telling her “it’s not on you to fix this” is stupid.
From the OP - “He is young, huge, not generally nasty, but just loves to bite”
I don’t see late gelded as an excuse here. I’ve never heard that stallions are biters by nature. Some horses are just mouthy, and maybe that’s how this started. Are they working with a trainer? What kind of work is he in, and how is his behavior in other situations? Is he biting only when in the stall, for example? Does it change when he is haltered/bridled?
Can you work with the owners? Explain your difficulty with him. Have them explain what they want you to do in order to safely handle him. If you can do that and it works, great. If not, explain what you need to do to stay safe (and that is your only concern, you are not his trainer even if “it is always training”) If you cant find a solution, then the only other option is to refuse to handle him.
Of course it’s helpful. It may not be what OP wants to hear but you’re delusional if you think you’re going to get “one trick trainers don’t want you to know so your horse doesn’t kill you” on an Internet forum.
Any horse that is coming at you with their ears back and mouth open like that doesn’t “just love to bite”. That is very serious behavior. And for the record, even if this WAS OP’s horse my advice would be hire an extremely knowledgeable and skilled professional to address it or euthanize the animal. It’s a very unfortunate situation, but that is the reality for horses like that and most people don’t come to that realization until someone gets really hurt. Then they finally figure out that “oh he’s not just nippy, this horse could actually kill somebody”.
But since it’s not OP’s horse, this is not their problem to deal with so the best thing they can do is to remove themselves from the situation.
@Equkelly is entirely correct here. Since this is not your horse, do not get involved. If you are “asked” to get involved, or “paid” to get involved, that is up to you how you react, whether you wish to put your 2 cents into the problem. A horse like this has not formed a normal equine personality, for a reason. Incorrectly raised and handled previously, or genetic influences. If you MUST handle the horse because you work at the barn, keep a halter on him, snap a muzzle onto the halter if you wish to handle him. Tie him to the wall if you must enter the stall. This sort of behaviour may also indicate an extremely defensive horse, instead of a truly aggressive one. If so, reacting violently to the perceived aggression will only make the horse more defensive in protecting itself even more… from you. So it is a very tricky situation, and it is not your problem, fortunately for you.
The horse isn’t an asshole.
He’s a big, young horse who hasn’t been shown how he is to behave around people. That responsibility lies solely with his owners and those who raised him. Looking at it from the perspective of “he’s a jerk” does nothing to further help the horse or the people who need to get on teaching him how to live in a human-controlled world.
HOWEVER, you don’t own this horse. It is not your responsibility to teach him anything or fix what previous humans have neglected to teach him. Unless you are specifically asked for help by his owners or the barn manager/owner, I wouldn’t get involved. You don’t know why this horse does what he does, and more than likely this “behavior” goes far deeper in terms of insecurity on this horse’s part. This isn’t a one-trick fix.
This 1000%. When I was a teenager I was responsible for feeding horses every day at this barn and there was a horse like that there. At the time I was training with a Clinton Anderson junkie trainer who believed the answer to dealing with a horse like this was more aggression so 15 year old me thought I’d just keep a lunge whip on me. Yea… NOPE. Thank god there was a fence between me and that horse because if not, he seriously would’ve killed me. Up until that point in my life I didn’t understand horses like that aren’t just “disrespectful” but they think they’re defending themselves from a predator.
It is unrealistic to believe that the OP, who’s not the owner and has to interact with this horse minimaly, is going to be able to change this type of behavior.
Any training has to go through the owner’s approval too. If there is a problem with the horse, the owner must know and decide how the BO or workers will be allowed to interact with their horse.
If everyone do their own type of training, it will be pointless and counter productive.
This is a serious issue where the OP could get badly injured.
The OP is not a trainer, and even less the trainer of this particular horse.
So the only proper advice to be given here should be for the OP to ask how to deal with this horse safely - or simply demand to be exempt from dealing with this horse until the situation is resolved/under control - has some sort of a handling plan.
The OP works at the barn, his/her safety shouldn’t be put at risk that way.
I have worked with biters and « retrained » a few - I put retrained in quote because this habit rarely truly goes away… The best way to do so is to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you would be bitten and put the horse in a situation where the biting reaction is triggered.
Haltering, giving space, not staying in proximity of the horse’s face, eliminating any source of pain, enough exercice/pasture time, lead chain/proper ground work/handling, good feeding/stall cleaning management, etc.
This is a serious situation and a dangerous horse.
It is currently being dealt with - OP, stand your ground and demand not to be working with this horse for as long as you don’t feel comfortable around/handling him. There is no shame in this - you aren’t paid high enough to lose a arm over this.
The trainer and owner aren’t happy with the way you’ve dealt with the horse (totally justified response since you don’t know better and were taken by surprise), so let them deal with it.
Probably double posting… Sorry.
Originally posted by S1969 View Post
Well, that’s totally not helpful.
She’s asking for resources to change the behavior. Telling her “it’s not on you to fix this” is stupid.
It is unrealistic to believe that the OP, who’s not the owner and has to interact with this horse minimaly, is going to be able to change this type of behavior.
Any training has to go through the owner’s approval too. If there is a problem with the horse, the owner must know and decide how the BO or workers will be allowed to interact with their horse.
If everyone do their own type of training, it will be pointless and counter productive.
This is a serious issue where the OP could get badly injured.
The OP is not a trainer, and even less the trainer of this particular horse.
So the only proper advice to be given here should be for the OP to ask how to deal with this horse safely - or simply demand to be exempt from dealing with this horse until the situation is resolved/under control - has some sort of a handling plan.
The OP works at the barn, his/her safety shouldn’t be put at risk that way.
I have worked with biters and « retrained » a few - I put retrained in quote because this habit rarely truly goes away… The best way to do so is to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you would be bitten and put the horse in a situation where the biting reaction is triggered.
Haltering, giving space, not staying in proximity of the horse’s face, eliminating any source of pain, enough exercice/pasture time, lead chain/proper ground work/handling, good feeding/stall cleaning management, etc.
This is a serious situation and a dangerous horse.
It is currently being dealt with - OP, stand your ground and demand not to be working with this horse for as long as you don’t feel comfortable around/handling him. There is no shame in this - you aren’t paid high enough to lose a arm over this.
The trainer and owner aren’t happy with the way you’ve dealt with the horse (totally justified response since you don’t know better and were taken by surprise), so let them deal with it.
~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~
Originally posted by LauraKY
I’m sorry, but this has “eau de hoarder” smell all over it.
Probably double posting… Sorry.
Originally posted by S1969 View Post
Well, that’s totally not helpful.
She’s asking for resources to change the behavior. Telling her “it’s not on you to fix this” is stupid.
It is unrealistic to believe that the OP, who’s not the owner and has to interact with this horse minimaly, is going to be able to change this type of behavior.
Any training has to go through the owner’s approval too. If there is a problem with the horse, the owner must know and decide how the BO or workers will be allowed to interact with their horse.
If everyone do their own type of training, it will be pointless and counter productive.
This is a serious issue where the OP could get badly injured.
The OP is not a trainer, and even less the trainer of this particular horse.
So the only proper advice to be given here should be for the OP to ask how to deal with this horse safely - or simply demand to be exempt from dealing with this horse until the situation is resolved/under control - has some sort of a handling plan.
The OP works at the barn, his/her safety shouldn’t be put at risk that way.
I have worked with biters and « retrained » a few - I put retrained in quote because this habit rarely truly goes away… The best way to do so is to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you would be bitten and put the horse in a situation where the biting reaction is triggered.
Haltering, giving space, not staying in proximity of the horse’s face, eliminating any source of pain, enough exercice/pasture time, lead chain/proper ground work/handling, good feeding/stall cleaning management, etc.
This is a serious situation and a dangerous horse.
It is currently being dealt with - OP, stand your ground and demand not to be working with this horse for as long as you don’t feel comfortable around/handling him. There is no shame in this - you aren’t paid high enough to lose a arm over this.
The trainer and owner aren’t happy with the way you’ve dealt with the horse (totally justified response since you don’t know better and were taken by surprise), so let them deal with it.
As a former barn worker I would do two things
-
Speak to the barn owner and tell them I refused to handle the horse until the behavior was corrected
-
Defend myself in the appropriate manner if it did bite me.
I handled a boarders horse. It bit the owner like all the time. Bit me once. Didn’t happen again. Having barn owner speak to boarder didn’t work as boarder didn’t want the horse to not love them anymore. We handled the horse when the owner wasn’t there and it ended up just biting him after that.
I once had a 3yo filly attack me in a stall. Teeth and ears and full out murder mode. I hit it in the face with a bucket of food and screamed and screamed. It was very surprised.
Apparently the normal feeder was elderly, terrified of the horse, and would just throw the food on the floor and run.
I would handle a stallion known for bitting. He wouldn’t do it if you were serious and handled him often but he would get mouthy with a newbie and then bite. You only had to be firm with him once. I always carried a stick when I handled him.
I’d ask the owner “In the event that I need to handle the horse, what tools or strategies can I use to keep myself safe”. If it is truly a rare situation something like a long crop to extend your radius, stud chain, or a lunge line may all be options. Any suggestion is ultimately moot if the owner does not give you approval. I’d frame the conversation around safety and acknowledge that they are doing great work of reshaping the behavior long-term. “In the event that he comes after me aggressively I’d like to take steps A, B, C. I understand this is not a long-term solution but do I have your approval to take these steps to keep myself safe”.
I think the best bet in your situation is to refuse to work with this horse. I am currently rehabbing a pretty chompy one and I agree with the comments about defensiveness etc. - in my critter’s case, smacking him would just escalate the situation at worst, and at best be a big setback in actually resolving the issue. I’m lucky that he only bites in specific situations, and is very safe for barn staff to handle turning in/out, feeding, etc.
Either the owners/BOs need to come up with a safe and reasonable process/system for barn staff to handle this guy, or they need to figure out how to manage his care so that only very specific people handle him.
FWIW, I manage the bitey ones by engaging their muzzle every single time they swing around to grab me. Flat hand, let them nibble at the palm if they want to, and just otherwise softly play with their nose until they’ve had enough. Doubtless some people will say this is a dumb method, and there are many roads to Rome etc. This one works for me, and has helped turn a very tricky horse into a pretty sweet cuddly dude. Including it here, OP, not to say you should start doing this - I really do think it’s on the owners and BOs to sort out safe handling methods - but to share since you asked for ideas.
A horse like this is a huge, giant liability to the barn and should not be handled by anyone but the owners. Does the barn owner know how bad he is?
Nope nope nope nope nope. sighs
Ok it’s becoming very clear that half the people in this thread have never been around a horse like this. We’re not talking about nippy… we’re talking about much more serious issues. If you have a horse that is really defensive, (which it sounds like this is the case) whips, smacking the horse, putting a chain over its nose, will make things SO much worse. Not a good plan.
If it’s a “nippy” horse then yea, probably one smack and that’s the end of that. That’s clearly not what’s going on here though so for all of you suggesting that this is how to handle this type of horse, you guys are letting your inexperience show.
Removing yourself from the situation isn’t a sign of weakness and has nothing to do with OP’s horsemanship abilities. Even if OP did have the skills to retrain a horse like this, she should still NOPE out of the situation. I’ve been working with problem horses my whole life. I’ve started horses, I’ve worked with mustangs, OTTB’s, “abused horses”, you name it I have seen it all. I still would not touch this situation with a 12 foot pole even if you paid me 500 bucks an hour. I got nothing to prove.
I guess my perspective was that the OP was going to try to work with the owners to suggest things that can be done, not secretly apply training to someone else’s horse. She said that the clicker training was somewhat helpful.
SO, from that angle - are there suggestions to changing the behavior of a horse that bites? Let’s assume that owners are on board and/or would like suggestions from other trainers.
Is this horse stalled? In what situations does he do this? Stall, paddock, etc.? If it’s a paddock thing for example, could he go out with a muzzle while the owners pursue their training approach?
I wouldn’t even do that. With a horse like that, if you take away the horse’s ability to bite it will just find other avenues to go after you.
